NEW YORK | Empire Station District | 9 Towers (18-20 msf)| FT | FLOORS

[Hudson11]

trying to unpack all this.

Sites 4 and 5 are part of Vornado's plan (5 being the previously known "Penn Plaza East")
Site 7 is 15 Penn?

so maybe a net gain of 3 new supertalls for sites 2 and 6. TBH i would rather they build a single megatower at site 2. 1600ft+ mixed use with an open plaza flanking MSG

[chris08876]

I'm kind of warm to the idea of multiple super talls, even if in the range of 300-400m versus one mega tower. I think its one of those cases where sheer frequency will equate to a better skyline versus a singular mega tower. I could kind of see the new tallest being the Park Lane parcel once the condo market heats up again, at least with the 10 million+ market.

Personally, I'd rather see any mega tower in Lower Manhattan. At the foot of the island or near it. NY's Pudong in a way (Lower Manhattan).

We are likely to see this manifest as this is a long term development, possibly longer than Hudson Yards. Essentially super tall fillers to cater for the demand in the next 17 years.

WHAT WILL be exciting will be the residential boom or feeding per say that this complex will have. With office, comes the residential units, and hospitality boom along with trickling to the retail sector.

[Hudson11]

for the megatower I meant only site 2, there will still be multiple supertalls coming from this masterplan. Since the State will be involved versus a private development, there's no reason to not build something much grander with such a large plot of land.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Hudson11

for the megatower I meant only site 2, there will still be multiple supertalls coming from this masterplan. Since the State will be involved versus a private development, there's no reason to not build something much grander with such a large plot of land.

Being primarily office towers, it's not likely there would be a megatall. The megatall towers are usually mixed-use, with office, hotel, and residential uses. It would be nice to get one, but they would have to shift what these towers are.



Now there has been a lot of development to keep track of, and a lot for us to absorb. This development is expected to take shape over 2 decades, 1 less than the Hudson Yards redevelopment. So for any of those NIMBYs concerned with a "flooding" of office space, this will come later, and it won't all be built at once.

As far as the heights listed, those are just illustrative of the scale, and even then, just to the highest occupied floor. The buildings haven't been designed, and the developer of some sites is yet to be determined. We just know what will be built, and where.

There is a huge amount to read up on, but I've taken some of the info and some graphics to post here for reference...



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[NYguy]

Here, we can see a new transit hall will take shape within tower 2B...


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[NYguy]

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[NYguy]

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Site controls...




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[newyorker]

If this project moves forward, does it mean Garden City Twin Supertalls (vision) won't happen?

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by newyorker

If this project moves forward, does it mean Garden City Twin Supertalls (vision) won't happen?

That was never a serious proposal.

[mrnyc]

i took this pic recently on the steps of the farley post office.

i also finally got to see moynihan train hall -- very nice.

anyway, its part of site 2 that will go away for penn south/empire redevelopment.

now if only msg would go away lol.

[newyorker]

So how and where would 15 Penn Plaza (Hotel Penn) fit into all of this?

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by newyorker

So how and where would 15 Penn Plaza (Hotel Penn) fit into all of this?

Site 7

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...postcount=1451

Originally Posted by mrnyc

i took this pic recently on the steps of the farley post office.

i also finally got to see moynihan train hall -- very nice.

anyway, its part of site 2 that will go away for penn south/empire redevelopment.

now if only msg would go away lol.

Yeah, that's the site of potentially the tallest tower of the development.


But it will be great when they finally decide to remove the theater and create another opening for Penn...


https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true




https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true




https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...?adppopup=true

[10011-]

When were those last round of penn station renovation renders released showing the entrance in the old hulu theatre space?! I have not previously seen these. I know the talk of removing the theatre to create a new entrance with more light I have just not seen these specific renders.

Is this an old proposal?

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by 10011-

When were those last round of penn station renovation renders released showing the entrance in the old hulu theatre space?! I have not previously seen these. I know the talk of removing the theatre to create a new entrance with more light I have just not seen these specific renders.

Is this an old proposal?

That's not a current proposal. That was the JDS Development bid from a few years ago. Vornado won the bid, but the southern sites are still up for a developer, and will probably be put out for bid once this is finalized. The theater removal is part of the on site renovations that haven't been released or finalized yet.

https://jdsdevelopment.com/portfolio...ation-proposal

[Manitopiaaa]

I thought the whole point of this megaproject was to fix the eyesore that is Madison Square Garden. And in the end, we're going to destroy more than a dozen buildings (including historic beauties like Site 3), yet we're keeping the massive turd that led to the problem in the first place (with some lazy cosmetic tweaks)?

I'm happy for the 5 supertalls, but too much good is being destroyed (Site 3 the historic church across from it) and too much bad is being kept (MSG).

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa

I thought the whole point of this megaproject was to fix the eyesore that is Madison Square Garden.

Then you were wrong, by a lot. This was never about MSG.

And in the end, we're going to destroy more than a dozen buildings (including historic beauties like Site 3), yet we're keeping the massive turd that led to the problem in the first place (with some lazy cosmetic tweaks)?

I'm happy for the 5 supertalls, but too much good is being destroyed (Site 3 the historic church across from it) and too much bad is being kept (MSG).

Listen, the city and the massive infrastructure (transit, businesses) that keeps it afloat are more important than some buildings you want to keep around for decoration. It comes down to that.

[TonyNYC]

Originally Posted by NYguy

Then you were wrong, by a lot. This was never about MSG.





Listen, the city and the massive infrastructure (transit, businesses) that keeps it afloat are more important than some buildings you want to keep around for decoration. It comes down to that.

So St John's the Baptist Church built in 1871,Capuchin Franciscan Order, is just some building to keep around for decoration?

Have you stepped into the 150 year old Gothic Church?? It's a beautiful building and should be landmarked, but no one must of thought they'd tear it down.

[citybooster]

Would rather have the church than the crap those grifters the Dolans got put up in Madison Square Garden. Simply don't renew the brain dead lease or renew it for just enough time for the Dolans to find a new location. This place is what, the 4th location for MSG? Get the damned eyesore out of the way. Another one can be built elsewhere. It's never going to be anything else in its current location but a corporate eyesore that keeps Penn Station from modernizing to the best possible degree. Yeah, we'll never get old Penn Station back, but New York should have a Penn Station that fits a world class train station that is the pride of New York. Just can't happen with Madison Square Garden in the way, though getting rid of the Hulu Theater would be a nice consolation.

I know the powers that be look like they will never push MSG out of its current location, but with a lease ending I don't see why the city and state will again do everything they can for the Dolans to save money on taxes. If the Dolans REALLY want to own MSG into perpetuity, some good will may well yet prevail if they decide that MSG would be better off in a new location where we could get a truly outstanding sports/entertainment arena that allows for the maximum public benefit to the current location of Penn Station as well. A little more civic/corporate responsibility would do them well.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by TonyNYC

So St John's the Baptist Church built in 1871,Capuchin Franciscan Order, is just some building to keep around for decoration?

Have you stepped into the 150 year old Gothic Church?? It's a beautiful building and should be landmarked, but no one must of thought they'd tear it down.

The Church was there before Penn Station was built. Yet it would have been torn down if at the time they thought they needed to. They go into specifics about the church, and other structures that will be demolished. But yeah, you would rather have it around for decoration. If it is what stands in the way of the expanded station, then yes, it is decoration. You see, that church is not essential to the fabric or existence of New York City.

Originally Posted by citybooster

Would rather have the church than the crap those grifters the Dolans got put up in Madison Square Garden. Simply don't renew the brain dead lease or renew it for just enough time for the Dolans to find a new location. This place is what, the 4th location for MSG?

Madison Square Garden, garbage though it may be, is far more essential to the city than that church. And where exactly would you move it? All the talk of moving the Garden is all fantasy at this point. The last, best option was to move it into the Farley building, and that opportunity was blown.

[Submariner]

Penn Station is WAY more important to the city than MSG is. Penn simply cannot properly serve the city unless MSG is completely out of the way. There is just no way around that. If MSG ceases to exist anywhere in the city, so be it.