Phoenix Development News (3)

[WCArch]

Originally Posted by PHX31

That's awesome. I don't understand, though, why you built it. And where. Do you get to keep it or something? Is that your attic space? It looks pretty cool, where is it?

Great job.

I worked as a high school intern at HKS Architects last semester. They brought it in because City Hall and the Phoenix Convention Center did not have the space for it, and so that was my big project when I worked there. It is at HKS Architects in Downtown Phoenix.

Thank you to everyone else who enjoyed it. I really appreciate all of your compliments!

[plinko]

^Why is the Barrister Building missing?

[pbenjamin]

Somebody might find this interesting.

Hotel Monroe

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

^ Yep, its pretty bad!

The "Cloud" over Central I think could actually be kinda cool. Its somewhat less of a shade thing and more of an iconic eye catcher to get people to realize there's something there. If you see higher quality renderings, there's food stalls down under the bridge, one on the north and one on the south side.

But yes, overall the plan is typical nonsense from landscape architects who are great at drawing, but not great at thinking "what would make a person use this space."

Were you at the presentation? How was the reception? I'm frankly embarrassed at the time and effort that went into planning this product.

Wouldn't the clouds make more sense over each side of the park? Everyone knows Central is there, but they have no idea parkland exists to the east and west. High, huge shade clouds might make that a bit more obvious. Unless there's signage involved or something, I just don't see how it will be any kind if wayfinding feature.

Thanks for the info on the food carts; the article says those are "being talked about," however, which makes me think they'll never happen. Or, they'll pack up and leave since we are still left with the problem of nobody knowing the park is there or giving them a reason to use it.

There are so many projects in Phoenix that could use the money they're asking for to do this non-job. What a shame.

[WCArch]

Originally Posted by plinko

^Why is the Barrister Building missing?

Great Question! I have no idea! I noticed that as well. We didn't have it, so I assume it probably just didn't get shipped with the other ones or it broke along the way.

[nickw252]

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

Somebody might find this interesting.

Hotel Monroe

Very interesting, thanks. From the proposed floor plan at 4:03 It looks like the underground garage entrance will be in the southeast corner from the alley.

[Phxguy]

Whelp, the Row on 2nd will be built! I was actually quite afraid this wouldn't be approved and we would be left with an empty house and lot for many more years.
http://www.azcentral.com/community/p...-district.html

[Spitfiredude]

Originally Posted by WCArch

Great Question! I have no idea! I noticed that as well. We didn't have it, so I assume it probably just didn't get shipped with the other ones or it broke along the way.

Great work. Cool to see. If you have the opportunity, you should now try to modify to give your vision of how you see downtown in 2025 or 2040 or even 2050. Would love to see something like that.

[gymratmanaz]

That HOTEL MONROE video is absolutely amazing. Very Cool!!!!!!!! Thanks pbenjamin!!!

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Were you at the presentation? How was the reception? I'm frankly embarrassed at the time and effort that went into planning this product.

Wouldn't the clouds make more sense over each side of the park? Everyone knows Central is there, but they have no idea parkland exists to the east and west. High, huge shade clouds might make that a bit more obvious. Unless there's signage involved or something, I just don't see how it will be any kind if wayfinding feature.

Thanks for the info on the food carts; the article says those are "being talked about," however, which makes me think they'll never happen. Or, they'll pack up and leave since we are still left with the problem of nobody knowing the park is there or giving them a reason to use it.

There are so many projects in Phoenix that could use the money they're asking for to do this non-job. What a shame.

I was at the presentation, the reaction was mixed. I should note, there will be similar cloud like structures as entries at least two points....one near the Jewish Center/Burton Barr area and another somewhere on the West side of the park. I think the details are all up in the air, but the idea is they'll look similar to kind of pick up on the theme.

Sadly, a lot of the reaction was "there's not enough parking!" Even the main designer from !Melk was flabbergasted, making a quick snide "you people here really love your cars." The current design has wayyy too much parking, especially of the surface variety.

When they mentioned trying to get a restaurant (perhaps Japanese) on that dirt lot on the NE corner of 3rd Ave/Portland many people from that neighborhood got vocally upset and flipped out. Sadly, even though the live in freaking downtown they want the quiet of suburbia.

I think we really need to educate people on, if you're living in the city- city type stuff is going to happen! Noisy, cool restaurants might be nearby. People might parallel park their cars on your street. You may occasionally see a homeless person.

Originally Posted by Phxguy

Whelp, the Row on 2nd will be built! I was actually quite afraid this wouldn't be approved and we would be left with an empty house and lot for many more years.
http://www.azcentral.com/community/p...-district.html

Yep, this is good news.

[rocksteady]

Originally Posted by Phxguy

Whelp, the Row on 2nd will be built! I was actually quite afraid this wouldn't be approved and we would be left with an empty house and lot for many more years.
http://www.azcentral.com/community/p...-district.html

While I'm upset about the age restriction and don't quite understand why this couldn't get built without one, it will be nice to see long vacant lots getting filled. Let's hope the older residents move in there because they WANT to be a part of the lively and growing Arts District and not stifle it, as people fear.

Also, the article says construction will wrap up in 2018. Ummm, is that a typo?

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by rocksteady

While I'm upset about the age restriction and don't quite understand why this couldn't get built without one,

Its entirely how this project is being financed. There's 0 chance it'd be happening without the age restriction and thus government money. The other proposals the City received didn't have money lined up and one of the proposals came from a group thats had to return land to the City in the past.

Would it be cooler if it was even denser, market rate housing geared towards professionals in their 30s? Of course, but ah well.

[dtnphx]

You know, 55 + doesn't mean what it once did and is not considered old anymore (except on this forum). Consider that those people are still active, work, go to concerts and even eat in restaurants! Lot's of hipster neighborhoods around the country that people just love are not filled with only 20-somethings. They couldn't thrive for long with just one demographic.

I for one enjoy being around people of all ages where I work and where I play.

[PHX31]

What's the hold up with the project on Roosevelt and 1st Avenue? We saw that sparkling rendering a while ago and it seemed like a slam dunk, but it's now just been sitting. Are they going to be market rate, or are they thinking they'll too want gov't money and make it senior housing? ... or are they trying to flip the land?

[rocksteady]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

I was at the presentation, the reaction was mixed. I should note, there will be similar cloud like structures as entries at least two points....one near the Jewish Center/Burton Barr area and another somewhere on the West side of the park. I think the details are all up in the air, but the idea is they'll look similar to kind of pick up on the theme.

Sadly, a lot of the reaction was "there's not enough parking!" Even the main designer from !Melk was flabbergasted, making a quick snide "you people here really love your cars." The current design has wayyy too much parking, especially of the surface variety.

When they mentioned trying to get a restaurant (perhaps Japanese) on that dirt lot on the NE corner of 3rd Ave/Portland many people from that neighborhood got vocally upset and flipped out. Sadly, even though the live in freaking downtown they want the quiet of suburbia.

I think we really need to educate people on, if you're living in the city- city type stuff is going to happen! Noisy, cool restaurants might be nearby. People might parallel park their cars on your street. You may occasionally see a homeless person.



Yep, this is good news.

I think that is why a lot of "real" city planners are so hesitant with thinking outside the box with Phoenix projects. They realize there are so many people living in the area that are used to a calm, quiet, city that the idea of turning it in to a "real city" frightens them...so we are stuck with mediocre suburban styled projects to please the most vocal residents. Which is why I'm sure some of the Roosevelt Row parties are against an older clientele moving in on their hip and up and coming neighborhood in fear they are the same people griping over lack of parking and Japanese restaurants.

[WCArch]

Originally Posted by Spitfiredude

Great work. Cool to see. If you have the opportunity, you should now try to modify to give your vision of how you see downtown in 2025 or 2040 or even 2050. Would love to see something like that.

That is a really neat idea. Thank you very much, I will see what I can do!

[Jjs5056]

So much to respond to!

Hoover: thanks for the inside scoop on the presentation; did anyone respond in defense of having minimal parking and the benfits of having restaurants and other development nearby that will spil over into the park? I'm moving soon, and while I was sad at the thought of not bring around to see Phoenix evolve, maybe the reality is that it isn't meant to be the urban core we all envision. If those living near the park are worried about noise and parking, how will we ever progress? Same with the park in general. I think at this point, you call it a lost cause and throw the money into projects that will make a difference. Throwing lipstick on this pig is futile.

Rocksteady: Hoover already explained the dynamics behind incorporating a senior component to the development. It's the only reason their other projects received financing. Have you ever seen The Encore on Farmer in Tempe they built? If not, I advise going to take a look. Up close, it's one of the best buildings I've seen in a while. These guys know what they are doing- just seeing their use of the alleyways for back of house shows they do quality work. I also think mixing in folks 55+ (who may bring 20-something year old kids with them BTW) may eventually be a blessing for the area. The hipster demographic isn't known for its affluence. I think the Row could use som fresh, older blood, maybe with connections that can help artists, and who have needs for things like groceries, hardware, dry cleaning, etc.

I hope someone can clarify timeline- I thought I read end of 2015 somewhere; 2018 sounds ridiculous. Maybe they're doing the residential first, and then the restoration which may take more time?

PHX31: I just asked about the Roosevelt/1st project in another thread. It seems like it is impossible to get a market rate project off the ground. There were Cooper apartments being proposed as well that have gone quiet, too. Would be a real shame if they were just trying to assemble and flip the land, after all the nonsense they spewed to the best about the importance if these type of TOD projects for downtown.

[combusean]

The problem with The Row is that it is an apartment complex built to serve a waiting list of affordable housing. The people that are going to be living there have no choice in the matter and I would guarantee that many of its potential residents would rather NOT be living in the midst of a noisy, bustling entertainment area if they had their druthers. Good architecture cannot compensate for an incompatible use for the neighborhood.

As an aside, i think it's crazy how much affordable housing that's gone up lately downtown that's taken prime lots (4th Ave and McKinley, 2nd Ave and McKinley) that could have gone to market rate units. I occasionally think of moving back to Phoenix myself (if my job existed out there) but these missteps sour me on that concept.

[Jjs5056]

Sean, are you sure about the waiting list component? That's the first I've heard, and is unfortunate if true. They do need to sign a waiver that they are okay living in an urban, noisy environment, but yes, ideally, the residents should be those WANTING the experience outright.

As for your second point, I absolutely agree. I have been saying the same all year long and gotten shit for being too negative. But, I can't think of a single market rate apartment complex built in either downtown Tempe or downtown Phoenix since the crash aside from CityScape. Tempe is at least getting HF lofts and USA Place, but for Phoenix, prime property is being swallowed by those with low discretionary income and, while diversity is great, it doesn't help change the image most have of downtown Phoenix when most of the residents are in this demo.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

So much to respond to!

Hoover: thanks for the inside scoop on the presentation; did anyone respond in defense of having minimal parking and the benfits of having restaurants and other development nearby that will spil over into the park?

Unfortunately I had a family dinner I promised to go to that night, so had to leave right as the comment section was starting.

I did however fill out a comment card and wrote in huge black letters "Forget the damned motorcar and make cities for lovers and friends! ~ Lewis Mumford"

So...thats something?

Originally Posted by combusean

I occasionally think of moving back to Phoenix myself

This city is in your blood, you'll be back someday