AUSTIN | Projects & Construction III

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by Dariusb

If Austin decided to do big things transit wise, it'd definitely make it a potential leader in transportation in the south/southwest.

Austin actually has enough buildings over 600 feet in the pipeline to eclipse the number Dallas has completed at the moment including at least one that could end up being a supertall.

600+ feet:

Austin - 13
Dallas - 11

[Zapatan]

Is that 1000 footer just a concept? That would be surreal if it happened.

If all these projects go through Austin will be kicking Houston and Dallas's ass in terms of development. Hard to believe those massive cities barely build anything.

[hequals2henry]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

Austin actually has enough buildings over 600 feet in the pipeline to eclipse the number Dallas has completed at the moment including at least one that could end up being a supertall.

600+ feet:

Austin - 13
Dallas - 11

I wasn't aware that Austin has 13, I thought there's only 8, but sometimes I just like to feel happy about how far the skyline has already came with the independent, fairmont, austin proper, etc. When I take what we already have for granted, I just don't realize how big the skyline already is.

[hequals2henry]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

Austin actually has enough buildings over 600 feet in the pipeline to eclipse the number Dallas has completed at the moment including at least one that could end up being a supertall.

600+ feet:

Austin - 13
Dallas - 11

But I'll say this, if Austin does one day surpass Dallas in terms of skyline mass and density, it says a lot about its economy growth, and Dallas's lack of.

[Syndic]

The things that give Austin the edge: hilly terrain, natural beauty, dedication to parks, younger culture, UT braintrust, capitol complex, central location, growing at the right time (rather than in the era of unmitigated car-centric sprawl).

[DanielG425]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

Is that 1000 footer just a concept? That would be surreal if it happened.

If all these projects go through Austin will be kicking Houston and Dallas's ass in terms of development. Hard to believe those massive cities barely build anything.

?? Are we thinking of the same Houston? Houston is going vertical at an astronomical pace. Houston and Austin are my cities and I want them both to compete and thrive, but Houston has many more buildings under construction. No supertalls though :/ I think Austin will take the crown pretty soon considering there's only one urban core compared to Houston's five.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by DanielG425

?? Are we thinking of the same Houston? Houston is going vertical at an astronomical pace. Houston and Austin are my cities and I want them both to compete and thrive, but Houston has many more buildings under construction. No supertalls though :/ I think Austin will take the crown pretty soon considering there's only one urban core compared to Houston's five.

Houston’s cores are growing together though. Austin will never catch Houston.

[wrendog]

Holy cow Austin! Looks amazing.

Maybe you could give just a couple of those new projects to your friends down the road in San Antonio?

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

Is that 1000 footer just a concept? That would be surreal if it happened.

If all these projects go through Austin will be kicking Houston and Dallas's ass in terms of development. Hard to believe those massive cities barely build anything.

The supertall is a real proposal. They recently filed a site plan for it. At first we had assumed it was just marketing, but with them filing a site plan it makes it a little more real than just a concept. They also bought the existing apartment buildings and land where they're planning the project. It's actually two towers each on half of their blocks. The two towers are described as 884,000 square feet of office space and 15,000 square feet of retail in one tower, and 500 apartments and 300 condos in the other tower plus 15,000 square feet of retail.

Here's the thread on it, including the renderings we've seen of the original concept.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=241677

Originally Posted by hequals2henry

I wasn't aware that Austin has 13, I thought there's only 8, but sometimes I just like to feel happy about how far the skyline has already came with the independent, fairmont, austin proper, etc. When I take what we already have for granted, I just don't realize how big the skyline already is.

We don't have 13, yet, but there are that many total complete and in the pipeline.

[N90]

Lets see for ourselves.

Panorama of the Austin skyline:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...555f9113_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...551eef9b_c.jpg


Panorama of the Dallas skyline:

https://live.staticflickr.com/7825/4...40d4b23a_h.jpg

[Dariusb]

So proud of what all the Texas metros are accomplishing. Keep growing and shining!

[KevinFromTexas]

I have no interest in having a city rivalry for the goal of bragging rights and brawls. My thing is to simply compare Austin to Houston and Dallas to see how far we've come to approaching their level of greatness because they are the next benchmarks we would come to in Texas when you're talking skylines.

[N90]

Originally Posted by Dariusb

So all of these projects will help connect downtown, uptown and TMC I'm assuming?

Yea.

West to East: Uptown Houston to Downtown Houston is 6 miles and in between Uptown and Downtown there are several other skyline clusters that are merging. There's Greenway Plaza which has the RO mega-project with 8-12 highrises on its own and the Paramount as well as a few other highrises near Levy Park. Greenway Plaza is merging into Uptown to its west and on its east side it already has merged with the highrise cluster in Upper Kirby. Kirby Drive curves near the bayou and changes its name to Allen Parkway, which itself has a highrise cluster of its own and is the area of Houston that's seeing the most intense amount of development, so Upper Kirby is starting to merge with Allen Parkway. In Allen Parkway you have mega-developments like Hanover's Buffalo Bayou, which will have 4 highrises and a few other midrises. There's also Regent Square which will have 4 highrises (one already built now) and several midrises. The Allen, which has 4 highrises and a few midrises. And random other highrises in the plans for Allen Parkway. Currently there are only 9 highrises in Allen Parkway, it will become 24-28 highrises with these mega-developments on tap and all of these developments that I mentioned have already started construction. These are just the ones we know about, meaning there could be much more announced in the future. Allen Parkway's highrise cluster is only 1 mile away from Downtown and with the Allen it will start its merging process with Downtown.

Then North to South: Downtown Houston to TMC is 4 miles with only 2 neighborhoods in between: Midtown Houston and the Museum District. Midtown has 7 highrises in the works right now, with the tallest being around 650' feet a part of the Laneways development that will bring 5 highrises total (one already completed and the second about to start construction in site prep) and Museum District already has a skyline of its own which will rapidly expand with Museo Plaza (3 highrises w/ tallest being over 700' feet), the Parklane Towers (3 buildings, all above 30 stories with the tallest being 50 stories), and 5-6 other highrises planned in the area. Then to its south you have TMC which is self-explanatory because it's bustling with activity and several mega-projects of its own. Some of the more ambitious ones will extend TMC southward towards the NRG Sports Complex, so that skyline is beginning to stretch out and incorporate more territory.

From Uptown to Downtown and then Downtown to TMC is 10 miles of highrises and skyscrapers and inside that area are all 4 of HOU's largest skylines, employment centers, and business districts: Downtown, Uptown, TMC, and Greenway Plaza. Not to mention several other smaller skylines like Allen Parkway, Museum District, and the now skyclimbing Midtown.

The hold-up for HOU had always been Midtown, which was filled to the brim with lowrise and midrise construction but now with less available space is going upward into highrises and skyscrapers in a very aggressive way. Pretty much every proposal for Midtown in the last 2 years has been highrise or skyscraper, with a few midrises thrown in here or there, and that's going to continue because Midtown is HOU's hottest and most fun neighborhood.

Even further down the line is the skyline connecting with points in the west. From Uptown HOU going west to Westchase, Memorial City, City Centre, and Energy Corridor, but this is a much much much more longterm vision from here.

Uptown to Downtown and Downtown to TMC is more short-term and medium-term. I think within 25 years it will look beastly and continuous. Those gaps are quickly filling in. There's still plenty more to go, especially with connecting Allen Parkway with Upper Kirby and then Greenway Plaza with Uptown but those are being addressed as we speak.

[N90]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

I have no interest in having a city rivalry for the goal of bragging rights and brawls. My thing is to simply compare Austin to Houston and Dallas to see how far we've come to approaching their level of greatness because they are the next benchmarks we would come to in Texas when you're talking skylines.

All three cities are really different.

Austin will have one very large skyline in its core. It will go from South Congress then cross the river into Downtown then cross into the Capitol District and then into the UT/West Campus area. Actually, let me re-phrase my statement since it already does this but it will beef up even more, especially after the Statesman site in SoCo gets developed across the river. I think what we'll also see is more highrise and skyscrapers make their way east of I-35 too on the other side of the freeway from downtown and begin developing there as DT/SoCo reach their limit with available space. Going east will drive them towards that Oracle Campus, which would be great. Beyond that ATX will likely only have small highrise clusters elsewhere like the Domain area.

Houston has several highrise clusters and business districts and the major ones are being stitched together into one unit. Even though HOU is a decentralized city, it still has enough centralization to where its 4 major districts are all in the core of the city; downtown, uptown, greenway plaza, and TMC and in between these are even smaller clusters of highrises and business districts that are each doing their part in stitching it all together. This will run the course over the next 25 years as it infills in the spaces in between the business districts and inside the business districts. Beyond that the next avenue for HOU will be to then fill in and integrate Memorial City, City Centre, Westchase and Energy Corridor to the west and Greenspoint to the north. The former is very likely as all it needs is infill between Uptown and Memorial City, the latter is unlikely because between Downtown and Greenspoint is nothing but lowrise SFHs.

Dallas in the city is unilateral. It has one major continuous skyline already going from Downtown into Uptown and into the tollway area. But the DFW region has so many other medium to large clusters already and is developing even more in its suburbs and the other principle city of Fort Worth. Dallas' city skyline will be large and respectable but its sheer weight will be valued at the metro level, unlike Austin or Houston. Houston does have some highrise clusters in the Woodlands and in Galveston but its not the same as it is in DFW which not only has DAL and FW but also Irving, Plano, Frisco, etc all growing and developing their own clusters. Not to mention several other cities in DFW that are doing it on a smaller scale.

TX developments are fun to watch because you're never watching a repeat of one city onto the next.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by N90

All three cities are really different.

Austin will have one very large skyline in its core. It will go from South Congress then cross the river into Downtown then cross into the Capitol District and then into the UT/West Campus area. Actually, let me re-phrase my statement since it already does this but it will beef up even more, especially after the Statesman site in SoCo gets developed across the river. I think what we'll also see is more highrise and skyscrapers make their way east of I-35 too on the other side of the freeway from downtown and begin developing there as DT/SoCo reach their limit with available space. Going east will drive them towards that Oracle Campus, which would be great. Beyond that ATX will likely only have small highrise clusters elsewhere like the Domain area.

Houston has several highrise clusters and business districts and the major ones are being stitched together into one unit. Even though HOU is a decentralized city, it still has enough centralization to where its 4 major districts are all in the core of the city; downtown, uptown, greenway plaza, and TMC and in between these are even smaller clusters of highrises and business districts that are each aiding in stitching it all together. This will play itself out over the next 25 years as it infills in the spaces in between the business districts and inside the business districts. Beyond that the next frontier for HOU will be to then fill in and integrate Memorial City, City Centre, Westchase and Energy Corridor to the west and Greenspoint to the north. The former is very likely as all it needs is infill between Uptown and Memorial City, the latter is unlikely because between Downtown and Greenspoint is nothing but lowrise SFHs.

Dallas in the city is unilateral. It has one major continuous skyline already going from Downtown into Uptown and into the tollway area. But the DFW region has so many other medium to large clusters already and is developing even more in its suburbs and the other principle city of Fort Worth. Dallas' city skyline will be large and respectable but its sheer weight will be valued at the metro level, unlike Austin or Houston. Houston does have some highrise clusters in the Woodlands and in Galveston but its not the same as it is in DFW which not only has DAL and FW but also Irving, Plano, Frisco, etc all growing and developing their own clusters. Not to mention several other cities in DFW that are doing it on a smaller scale.

TX developments are fun to watch because you're never watching a repeat of one city onto the next.

All of this^^^^

However, I do think that if we can achieve rail transit that we will eventually see up zoning along the central spine north of the river stitching together the Domain to Downtown and West Campus into a single visually coherent, if patchy, skyline.

I’m thinking particularly about these developments and areas either directly or indirectly aiding via effect on future market pressures in this process:

The Grove
The Triangle
Old mental health campus potential redevelopment
Highland Mall
Crestview Station
Heritage neighborhood
Hancock area

Essentially, these areas are like the future mid rise infill equivalent to the areas between Chicago’s Loop and Uptown, very patchy, but from afar makes the two ends appear like a single skyline.

[NYC2ATX]

This is a fascinating discussion. Many of you are saying the same sorts of things that I've thought of or that have occurred to me over the years.

That visual comparison is interesting because it is actually forcing me to change my perception of which cities in Texas are the largest as a matter of general knowledge. The idea of Austin as equal in significance to Dallas and Houston is another foreign notion that I'll have to become accustomed to.

I can also foresee downtown Fort Worth surging to catch (or even surpass) downtown Dallas at some point in the future, what with its exploding population as of the latest census estimates, lack of large suburbs nearby on the same level as Dallas and the upcoming development potential once the Panther Island project is complete.

And what's to come of El Paso? Or Corpus Christi? Or Lubbock or Midland, etc.?
Lots of potential!

[Dariusb]

Originally Posted by N90

Yea.

West to East: Uptown Houston to Downtown Houston is 6 miles and in between Uptown and Downtown there are several other skyline clusters that are merging. There's Greenway Plaza which has the RO mega-project with 8-12 highrises on its own and the Paramount as well as a few other highrises near Levy Park. Greenway Plaza is merging into Uptown to its west and on its east side it already has merged with the highrise cluster in Upper Kirby. Kirby Drive curves near the bayou and changes its name to Allen Parkway, which itself has a highrise cluster of its own and is the area of Houston that's seeing the most intense amount of development, so Upper Kirby is starting to merge with Allen Parkway. In Allen Parkway you have mega-developments like Hanover's Buffalo Bayou, which will have 4 highrises and a few other midrises. There's also Regent Square which will have 4 highrises (one already built now) and several midrises. The Allen, which has 4 highrises and a few midrises. And random other highrises in the plans for Allen Parkway. Currently there are only 9 highrises in Allen Parkway, it will become 24-28 highrises with these mega-developments on tap and all of these developments that I mentioned have already started construction. These are just the ones we know about, meaning there could be much more announced in the future. Allen Parkway's highrise cluster is only 1 mile away from Downtown and with the Allen it will start its merging process with Downtown.

Then North to South: Downtown Houston to TMC is 4 miles with only 2 neighborhoods in between: Midtown Houston and the Museum District. Midtown has 7 highrises in the works right now, with the tallest being around 650' feet a part of the Laneways development that will bring 5 highrises total (one already completed and the second about to start construction in site prep) and Museum District already has a skyline of its own which will rapidly expand with Museo Plaza (3 highrises w/ tallest being over 700' feet), the Parklane Towers (3 buildings, all above 30 stories with the tallest being 50 stories), and 5-6 other highrises planned in the area. Then to its south you have TMC which is self-explanatory because it's bustling with activity and several mega-projects of its own. Some of the more ambitious ones will extend TMC southward towards the NRG Sports Complex, so that skyline is beginning to stretch out and incorporate more territory.

From Uptown to Downtown and then Downtown to TMC is 10 miles of highrises and skyscrapers and inside that area are all 4 of HOU's largest skylines, employment centers, and business districts: Downtown, Uptown, TMC, and Greenway Plaza. Not to mention several other smaller skylines like Allen Parkway, Museum District, and the now skyclimbing Midtown.

The hold-up for HOU had always been Midtown, which was filled to the brim with lowrise and midrise construction but now with less available space is going upward into highrises and skyscrapers in a very aggressive way. Pretty much every proposal for Midtown in the last 2 years has been highrise or skyscraper, with a few midrises thrown in here or there, and that's going to continue because Midtown is HOU's hottest and most fun neighborhood.

Even further down the line is the skyline connecting with points in the west. From Uptown HOU going west to Westchase, Memorial City, City Centre, and Energy Corridor, but this is a much much much more longterm vision from here.

Uptown to Downtown and Downtown to TMC is more short-term and medium-term. I think within 25 years it will look beastly and continuous. Those gaps are quickly filling in. There's still plenty more to go, especially with connecting Allen Parkway with Upper Kirby and then Greenway Plaza with Uptown but those are being addressed as we speak.

Wow! I can't wait to see how all of these projects when completed will make the skylines look!

[ATXboom]

The big difference in central Austin is land value. Values are way higher than the other Tx metros and just behind NYC / SF. This forces density and large projects. Similar to dynamics in Vancouver.

[DanielG425]

Originally Posted by NYC2ATX

This is a fascinating discussion. Many of you are saying the same sorts of things that I've thought of or that have occurred to me over the years.

That visual comparison is interesting because it is actually forcing me to change my perception of which cities in Texas are the largest as a matter of general knowledge. The idea of Austin as equal in significance to Dallas and Houston is another foreign notion that I'll have to become accustomed to.

I can also foresee downtown Fort Worth surging to catch (or even surpass) downtown Dallas at some point in the future, what with its exploding population as of the latest census estimates, lack of large suburbs nearby on the same level as Dallas and the upcoming development potential once the Panther Island project is complete.

And what's to come of El Paso? Or Corpus Christi? Or Lubbock or Midland, etc.?
Lots of potential!

I don't mean to take this forum further off topic, but I can see Corpus Christi getting its act together and becoming a major tourist destination. It's a scenic city right on the water and once the new harbor bridge is over it'll be a nationally recognizable skyline.

[lzppjb]

Originally Posted by DanielG425

I don't mean to take this forum further off topic, but I can see Corpus Christi getting its act together and becoming a major tourist destination. It's a scenic city right on the water and once the new harbor bridge is over it'll be a nationally recognizable skyline.

I've been saying this for almost 10 years.