Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[officedweller]

The question in whether, absent VGH and central Broadway commuters, the 99 B-Line service from Arbutus would be sufficient to meet UBC demand in the interim until the line is completed all the way to UBC. There would be efficiencies added by a terminus at Arbutus over the existing service - with a terminus at Arbutus, the return trip would be shorter for buses, so the bus fleet could cycle faster (as the south of Fraser buses do into Bridgeport Station versus their former routing into downtown Vancouver), the most traffic congested (slowest) part of the 99 B-Line route is eliminated - Central Broadway - and the number of stops would be reduced.

The Millennium Line replaced the part of the 99 B-Line from Lougheed Mall to Broadway & Commercial Station - extending the Millennium Line to Arbutus and again shortening the B-Line would be the next natural step, as planned by the circa 1999 Millennium Line plans.

[YVR Bruce]

What about launching twin TBMs westward, pausing somewhere like the southwest corner of B'way at Macdonald to cut in a new load-out. That way the eastern sections could be freed up for completion while the same TBM equipment is in place for the onward run. You get to complete & open a major section while the basics are dealt with for the western half of the run - without much of the costs cited for the 3 phased alternative.

A great opportunity for something like this was missed at the large ex-IGA liquor store plot at Arbutus, where a re-activated Marpole line could have even acted as a route out for the spoils. The landowners could have been rewarded with another "1.0 FSR" as bonus rent for the project landuse.

[xd_1771]

Even a partial extension to Arbutus has the potential to remove a huge amount of 99-related pass-ups, at least in the westbound direction. Boarding UBC riders onto the 99 will no longer share with Central-Broadway bound riders, who would have already gotten off the train.

[Alon]

UBC peaks differently from Central Broadway. Central Broadway has a smooth peak around start of work. UBC has a series of sharp peaks before the hour. When I board the 84 at 9:20, getting to campus around 9:35, there are seats. When I try to board at 9:35, the bus is completely full as do all subsequent buses that make the 10 am class.

Tellingly, the biggest source of passups on the 99 is not Commercial, but Cambie. It's Canada Line riders trying to get to UBC (and not Central Broadway, since the biggest job cluster is within walking distance of Cambie).

On top of that, I've read somewhere else in this forum that a majority of 99 riders ride all the way to the end. People hop on and off at Cambie on buses that are not timed to the UBC peak, but on buses that are, Cambie is just another set of origins for people going to UBC.

[officedweller]

I think the biggest VGH stop would be at Willow/Heather (and several office towers near there) rather than Cambie.

City Hall is probably the biggest employer at Cambie (including space in the former VanCity Building at 10th and at Crossroads), but we all know that City Hall has a huge parkade for its employees at City Square (formerly free, pay parking since 2009).

The biggest single office tower on the corridor may be the TransMountain Building (1333 W Broadway) which is closer to Granville (and there's the Vancouver School Board and Bentall office tower at Granville.

Originally Posted by YVR Bruce

What about launching twin TBMs westward, pausing somewhere like the southwest corner of B'way at Macdonald to cut in a new load-out. That way the eastern sections could be freed up for completion while the same TBM equipment is in place for the onward run. You get to complete & open a major section while the basics are dealt with for the western half of the run - without much of the costs cited for the 3 phased alternative.

A great opportunity for something like this was missed at the large ex-IGA liquor store plot at Arbutus, where a re-activated Marpole line could have even acted as a route out for the spoils. The landowners could have been rewarded with another "1.0 FSR" as bonus rent for the project landuse.

Connaught Park is at 10th & Vine 2 blocks west of Arbutus - a temporary staging area and TBM / spoil extraction site could be built there.

http://www.bing.com/maps/Default.aspx?en...OTcxNjMwNjU4JTdlLTEyMy4xNzY3Nzk3NDcwMDk=

[trofirhen]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Above all else, let's please begin this westward expansion by connecting the M-Line to the Canada Line.

[itinerant]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Connaught Park is at 10th & Vine 2 blocks west of Arbutus - a temporary staging area and TBM / spoil extraction site could be built there.

How big does the extraction/staging site need to be? Why not consider the Rogers store at NE corner of Arbutus and Broadway and vacant plot immediately behind it, and adjacent rail ROW for this purpose? Together these are a fairly large chunk of property that is less impacting don't you think?

[s211]

Please forgive the question, but is it confirmed that they would send the "Broadway" tunnel down 10th, and not 8th? This might have been stated previously, but couldn't find confirmation either way.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by s211

Please forgive the question, but is it confirmed that they would send the "Broadway" tunnel down 10th, and not 8th? This might have been stated previously, but couldn't find confirmation either way.

I don't think anything has been 'confirmed', but in previous postings here there is an argument against using 8th Ave because of the sewer main trunk that runs under 8th Ave.

I recall reading here that there were some anxious engineers when the Canada Line construction had to cross over the trunk at 8th Ave.


As for using a 10th Ave alignment, my primary argument is that any disruption at the street level will be less painful to people living/ working/ driving on 10th Ave vs. the greater pain of the same street disruptions on Broadway.

Also, using 10th Ave from Kingsgate Mall (Kingsway / Main St / Broadway) means there isn't an expensive jog (and corresponding slow-down in trains) to get the line moved one block from Alma/Broadway to Alma/10th.

[Alon]

The flip side about Broadway vs. 10th is that it adds a minute of station access time to everyone on and north of Broadway (i.e. most users).

I wonder, is 9.5th an option?

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by itinerant

How big does the extraction/staging site need to be? Why not consider the Rogers store at NE corner of Arbutus and Broadway and vacant plot immediately behind it, and adjacent rail ROW for this purpose? Together these are a fairly large chunk of property that is less impacting don't you think?

Google maps still has the Canada Line Olympic Village Station shown under construction. Before the station was constructed, the construction box was previously used for assembling the TBM machine and beginning each of the TBM tunnels that go under False Creek, Davie St and Granville St to Waterfront Station. The rest of the site west to Ash Street was the marshalling yard for the parts needed to build the TBM tunnels (primarily the ring segments) and dumping the tunnel spoils into waiting dump-trucks.

The space west of Olympic Station was re-paved and turned back into a parking lot when the Canada Line opened.

At the 20M zoom level, you can switch between the older overhead construction-site view and the newer parking-lot view.

Useless Trivia: This station has the round TBM tunnels on the north end and the square 'cut n cover' box tunnels on the south end.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Alon

The flip side about Broadway vs. 10th is that it adds a minute of station access time to everyone on and north of Broadway (i.e. most users).

I wonder, is 9.5th an option?

Oh, the First World HORRORS we have living here.

Coming from the north side of Broadway, you'll probably spend more time waiting for the pedestrian WALK light.

[officedweller]

Unless they stack, the alley is probably too narrow, and the alley is also probably more important for building access than 10th Ave would be.

Yes, there's a GVRD trunk sewer under 8th Ave - that's a no-go.

It's not really much farther in than Broadway City Hall Station and provides lateral circulation room:





http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=129009

[Alon]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Oh, the First World HORRORS we have living here.

Coming from the north side of Broadway, you'll probably spend more time waiting for the pedestrian WALK light.

A minute's a minute, regardless of whether it's train travel time or station access time.

[officedweller]

That's getting into minutae. Then what you really need to do is compare the time it would take to switch back several times down escalators and be delayed behind escalator standees if the station were under Broadway versus walking in a straight line down a wide corridor (and it generally wouldn't take a full minute to walk the extra distance except for seniors, and they aren't generally concerned about time).

It also represents the frame of mind of jaywalkers, red light runners, etc.

[jsbertram]

Subway line for Broadway corridor is best option, UBC study says

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/Subway+line+Broadway+corridor+best+option+study+says/8054262/story.html

here's the Translink PDF that VanSun is talking about:
http://www.translink.ca/~/media/document...tudy_alternatives_analysis_findings.ashx

or just the summary here:
http://www.translink.ca/~/media/Document...ernatives_Analysis_Findings_Summary.ashx


This page also has the links for the Surrey reports:
http://www.translink.ca/en/Plans-and-Projects/Rapid-Transit-Projects.aspx

[CBeats]

It's been released - yay!

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Subway line for Broadway corridor is best option, UBC study says

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/Subway+line+Broadway+corridor+best+option+study+says/8054262/story.html

here's the Translink PDF that VanSun is talking about:
http://www.translink.ca/~/media/document...tudy_alternatives_analysis_findings.ashx

or just the summary here:
http://www.translink.ca/~/media/Document...ernatives_Analysis_Findings_Summary.ashx


This page also has the links for the Surrey reports:
http://www.translink.ca/en/Plans-and-Projects/Rapid-Transit-Projects.aspx

If the rrt subway option is the preferred option, then it's clear: let's do it, for all the cited reasons.
If not, and there is bickering about expense (important, I admit), then there will surely be another thousand sessions of "here we go the mulberry bush"
all over again.
Meanwhile the whole project may get severely set back.
I hope not, since the Broadway line would complete the "backbone" of the system, and there will always be opportunity to expand later

[Metro-One]

They still have LRT at grade on the list, wish they would drop it.

It is either RRT the entire length or Combo 1, not extending the M-Line at least to Cambie would be an incredible mistake.

[logan5]

These new figures with a partially tunneled LRT indicate a per km cost of 166 million vs 230 million for RRT = 64 million less per km for underground LRT. Did I miss something or is undergound LRT that much cheaper to build?