Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3 - Page 265

esquire · #**5281** Posted **Oct 28, 2021, 4:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

Ok?

I'll keep it in mind that every time someone goes to a game in Baie-Comeau or Prince Rupert they're sticking it to the man in Toronto, or something, and not simply because it's the only hockey team or sports team in town.

I think he's talking more about the people in larger cities where there are many sports and entertainment options. It's interesting that places like Seattle and Portland have no trouble getting behind their Canadian Hockey League teams while they never seem to really get off the ground for any sustained length of time in Toronto or Montreal.

JHikka · #**5282** Posted **Oct 28, 2021, 4:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

I think he's talking more about the people in larger cities where there are many sports and entertainment options. It's interesting that places like Seattle and Portland have no trouble getting behind their Canadian Hockey League teams while they never seem to really get off the ground for any sustained length of time in Toronto or Montreal.

I guess we'll see how the Thunderbirds fare now that the Kraken are playing...for whatever attendance numbers might be worth post-2020.

The issue with CHL teams in our larger centres is a wider issue revolving around demographics and venue availability which also has been discussed quite a bit on this forum in the past. At least in the case of Toronto and Montreal it's easy to see how the AHL, and its ability to be directly owned, operated, and pipelined into the NHL teams, has supplanted the CHL in those cities. Similar to the Argos, if none of your fans live in the city you play in and they have to drive or commute long distances to attend your games then they probably won't be attending your games. The new CEBL teams in Scarborough (playing at U of T downtown) and Montreal (in Verdun) should be really good comparisons for the viability of sport in our major centres as those are two places where the CHL failed in recent memory.

An easy case can be made for the sports scene simply shifting in our larger centres to accommodate for changing demographics.

elly63 · #**5283** Posted **Oct 28, 2021, 5:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

Ok?

I'll keep it in mind that every time someone goes to a game in Baie-Comeau or Prince Rupert they're sticking it to the man in Toronto, or something, and not simply because it's the only hockey team or sports team in town.

Or soccer game in Edmonton

More tickets coming after 70K sold for World Cup qualifying games in Edmonton
Laine Mitchell dailyhive.com October 27 2021

More tickets are going on sale for Canada’s World Cup Qualifiers in November at Edmonton’s Commonwealth Stadium due to skyrocketing demand.

The organization says that more than 35,000 tickets have been sold for each of the Costa Rica and Mexico matches at the stadium.

“We are extremely pleased that the city of Edmonton and fans from coast to coast are ready to support Canada on the quest to Qatar 2022 when the Men’s National Team faces Costa Rica and Mexico in these two all-important matches on home soil,” said Peter Montopoli, Canada Soccer General Secretary, in a news release.

“Once again, the city of Edmonton is building on its rich soccer history and proving that they can be a fortress as Canada continues the momentum to qualify for Qatar 2022.”

Tickets will start at $20 and are now available on Ticketmaster.

The Canadian men’s national team will face Costa Rica on November 12 and Mexico on November 16.

Canada has not qualified for the World Cup since 1986.

JHikka · #**5284** Posted **Oct 28, 2021, 5:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63

Or soccer game in Edmonton

Yeah, stick it to the man by buying up all the tickets and filling the CSA's pockets.

elly63 · #**5285** Posted **Oct 28, 2021, 6:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

Yeah, stick it to the man by buying up all the tickets and filling the CSA's pockets.

Or Edmonton showing up the largest populated area in the country like it always does (insert appropriate childish emoji in lame attempt to patronize)

esquire · #**5286** Posted **Oct 28, 2021, 6:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63

Or Edmonton showing up the largest populated area in the country like it always does (insert appropriate childish emoji in attempt to patronize)

I think you mean this one

JHikka · #**5287** Posted **Oct 28, 2021, 6:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63

Or Edmonton showing up the largest populated area in the country like it always does (insert appropriate childish emoji in lame attempt to patronize)

From what i've seen a lot of people from Calgary are making the trip up, too. So that's good for them.

The whole 'Toronto bad!' shtick is fun, though, if not a little boring by now. Surely you guys can do better.

esquire · #**5288** Posted **Oct 28, 2021, 6:31 PM**

I highly doubt that showing up Toronto is a motivating factor at all for the people in Alberta buying tickets to those games.

elly63 · #**5289** Posted **Oct 28, 2021, 6:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

From what i've seen a lot of people from Calgary are making the trip up, too. So that's good for them.

The whole 'Toronto bad!' schtick is fun, though, if not a little boring by now. Surely you guys can do better.

It's just fun seeing you get bent all out of shape when we accidentally prick the Toronto is the greatest balloon just by supporting somewhere else getting a piece of the pie every blue moon.

BTW, this is the lame emoji thrown in there in an attempt to humiliate somebody's post

and we all know who is the main proponent of that.

JHikka · #**5290** Posted **Oct 28, 2021, 6:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

I highly doubt that showing up Toronto is a motivating factor at all for the people in Alberta buying tickets to those games.

I'm not the one making that assertion, nor am I perpetually attempting to contrast the two. Great on Edmonton (and Alberta) for supporting CMNT but comparing ticket sales between the two, especially during a global pandemic, is a fool's errand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63

It's just fun seeing you get bent all out of shape when we accidentally prick the Toronto is the greatest balloon just by supporting somewhere else getting a piece of the pie every blue moon.

I don't think that's the case but whatever helps you sleep at night. Good to know Toronto lives in your head rent-free.

elly63 · #**5291** Posted **Oct 28, 2021, 6:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

I don't think that's the case but whatever helps you sleep at night. Good to know Toronto lives in your head rent-free.

Someone call 2020 they want their catchphrase back.

Denscity · #**5292** Posted **Oct 28, 2021, 7:36 PM**

I think Toronto's poor attendance for the National soccer team, Argos, and Marlies is because those teams are not trendy. Only the soccer team is popular now so the last match in Toronto had a decent attendance.
Meanwhile Vancouver and Edmonton always supported well the National soccer team.

canucklehead2 · #**5293** Posted **Oct 28, 2021, 8:37 PM**

People always under-estimate Edmonton and its sports appetite but this is a jockocracy of a city that gets most of its glory from its sports teams and it doesn't matter what season. I am not shocked at all that sales are going well at Commonwealth. I could honestly see them selling out since the place seats only 53,000 or so these days with the wider buckets installed. Even in Edmonton in November for soccer. The city loves a spectacle especially if its a novelty... Crashed Ice anyone?

Djeffery · #**5294** Posted **Oct 28, 2021, 8:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Ha. Yes. The CHL could be our equivalent to NCAA sports but instead it gets shunted off to some dark closet where the national media outlets ignore it completely except for a few days a year around the NHL draft, the World Juniors and maybe the Memorial Cup (and only the latter results on any focus on the league itself as opposed to individual players).

But yes, I do agree with Djeffrey that a NFL team in Toronto is maybe not the existential threat to the Argos that it once was. I mean, if AHL teams can exist alongside NHL teams in several Canadian cities now (Vancouver, Winnipeg, Toronto, Montreal) then I don't think it's hard to imagine that a sympathetic NFL owner in Toronto could easily prop up the Argonauts. In some respects, the damage has already been done to that club and it could only get better.

More to the point, it doesn't take that much to sustain a CFL team... average attendance of 10,000 paid x 10 games at an average of $50 a ticket is a $5,000,000 gate which basically covers your player payroll. TV money, sponsorships and other revenue cover the rest. This is why MLSE isn't in any kind of panic mode... Tanenbaum alone could cover any annual shortfall with the cash that falls under the driver's seat of his car.

Just to clarify, I'm suggesting the CFL would be fine to carry on without the Argos, not that the Argos would be fine with an NFL team in town as well. Would it matter that much to TV ratings in Toronto if the Argos weren't there? TSN essentially pays 8/9ths of the rights fees now, as the Argos share basically goes from the left pocket to the right pocket. If the rights were $9million a year, the other 8 teams get a million. Remove the Argos and the rights drop to $8million, the other 8 teams still get a million. (Throwing easy numbers out there). Would there be any justification in the Toronto ratings to say that without the Argos, the rights would be worth $7million, or lower? I don't know, I would imagine TSN and the CFL would have the broken down demographics to know how many people watch CFL in general in Toronto, and how many watch the Argos specifically. I can't imagine it's a monstrous number of people who would turn away from the CFL simply because the Argos disappeared. It used to always be said the CFL can't survive without the Argos and I just don't think that's the case anymore.

esquire · #**5295** Posted **Oct 28, 2021, 8:54 PM**

Toronto is the biggest TV market in the country and I think a team there is essential to the CFL. The league would exhaust every option before it gives up on the Argonauts.

JHikka · #**5296** Posted **Oct 28, 2021, 9:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Would there be any justification in the Toronto ratings to say that without the Argos, the rights would be worth $7million, or lower? I don't know, I would imagine TSN and the CFL would have the broken down demographics to know how many people watch CFL in general in Toronto, and how many watch the Argos specifically. I can't imagine it's a monstrous number of people who would turn away from the CFL simply because the Argos disappeared. It used to always be said the CFL can't survive without the Argos and I just don't think that's the case anymore.

Removing the Argos, or any other team from the league, would lower the number of games on TV per season, hence lowering the theoretical value of the TV rights package. That means fewer advertising spots on TSN, which would also likely decrease in value without the league's largest market involved - even if that market is also the weakest in supporting the product.

You could make the argument that the league could simply play more games elsewhere to make up the lower number of teams, but I don't think that would have the market capture in advertising revenues that people think it would.

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Toronto is the biggest TV market in the country and I think a team there is essential to the CFL. The league would exhaust every option before it gives up on the Argonauts.

Yes.

Hackslack · #**5297** Posted **Oct 28, 2021, 9:41 PM**

How has MLS support been this year for Canada’s teams? Are they maxing out the reduced capacity, if there are any of those measures still in place? (hard to keep track of)