PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[1487]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

No doubt burying lines is very expensive. Most good things are.

THe fact that Philly is a dense city makes overhead lines less problematic here than in the burbs. There isn't a real financial incentive to spend the millions or billions required to bury lines. Trees are the main threat to overhead power lines and generally speaking most of the city doesn't have a major issue with outages due to fallen trees. In my part of the city (and others with rear driveways) the power lines are behind the homes where they face minimal threat from downed trees.

[Busy Bee]

There is such a thing as for aesthetic reasons alone.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

There is such a thing as for aesthetic reasons alone.

Amen.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by 1487

burying lines is very expensive and barely practical in an urban environment like Philly. At least most of CC has underground electrical service.

NoLibs, Fishtown, South Kensington, and East Kensington all need the lines buried. They really are hideous -- this enough development going on there to justify it.

[Tlphila]

Great little project for South Street East:

In autumn 2014, the former Pearl Arts & Crafts building on South Street got new life as a dance and fitness complex, but the venture was short-lived. Now, a co-working space focused on young and growing companies is set to open in May.

Joynture Work Habitat, which operates under the umbrella of software design and development company EWS, already has one location on Wall Street in New York City; it will open another in Lahore, Pakistan this year.

EWS Vice President of Business Development and Joynture co-founder Kyle Riggle says the company has been looking to expand to Philly for the last year.

"The reason we’re interested in Philly is just because the tech scene here is really starting to come alive," says Riggle. "I think that’s kind of the market we like to go after."

The hunt for a space began in Center City and then moved to Old City without turning up the right spot in terms of size, price, lease length and "a landlord willing to work with the type of business that we want to run," explains Riggle. "That’s not easy to find."

A Northern California native who came to the East Coast to attend Columbia University, Riggle lived in New York City for the past six years before buying a house in Philly’s Point Breeze neighborhood. He was strolling South Street one day late last year with his brother when he saw a sign in the Pearl building window. He met with the owner the next day for a tour.

"It had a lot of character and a lot of potential," he recalls. "Right when I saw it, I knew I could do something cool with it if I could make the numbers work."

The lease for Joynture’s new Philly location was finalized last December.

With the support of EWS, members will have access to a host of technical resources: membership benefits include big discounts from Amazon Web Services, Zipcar, UPS, B & H, and more.

The space will be a mix of private offices available for rent and co-working space. There will be an event area on the first floor and offices on the second. The 9,000-square-foot third floor can be tailored for multiple tenants looking for anything from 500 to 2,000 square feet. Startups interested in getting into the new Joynture space can e-mail joinus@joynture.com to get the ball rolling.

http://www.flyingkitemedia.com/devne...ure030816.aspx

[1487]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

There is such a thing as for aesthetic reasons alone.

and who is supposed to pay for that? Ask the customers if they are willing to shoulder the burden. None of this is free.

[McBane]

If I had a trillion dollars, for sure, I would bury the electric lines that dot the city and replace those electric poles with trees! The city needs more trees and less unsightly utility poles. But yea, it's about item 524 on the list of things Philly needs.

[VikingDutchman]

I wouldn't mind seeing it done piece-meal. Whenever water pipes are being replaced, streets are being dug-up, etc... throw the power lines underground.

Or, make Comcast do it. For the whole country. Because, you know, they're awful.

[Tlphila]

Renderings of project replacing demolished New Hope Temple Baptist Church site on 12th Street:

http://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-phill...to-12th-street

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by 1487

and who is supposed to pay for that? Ask the customers if they are willing to shoulder the burden. None of this is free.

A percentage of revenue should go towards investment in any endeavor. Outside of utility operation and maintenance expense, a certain percentage should be invested in modernization. Overhead line burial is a very visible example of utility modernization. Government has a role in pushing for these investments, not as a concession, but as an agreement with the deregulated profit driven energy producers. This is not a moonshot, it's a perfectly reasonable expectation.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by 1487

burying lines is very expensive and barely practical in an urban environment like Philly. At least most of CC has underground electrical service.

Originally Posted by 1487

and who is supposed to pay for that? Ask the customers if they are willing to shoulder the burden. None of this is free.

You make it sound like no other city in the world has managed to accomplish this impossible feat. Frankly, every world class city other than parts of San Fran and Tokyo has managed to figure this out.

Outside of the obvious scenic and QOL improvement of buried wires, studies actually show that beyond the initial investment, it reduces down the line costs of maintenance (poles falling, trees falling on wires, etc.) significantly. Other added benefits include increased property values on blocks with buried wires = increased tax revenue for the city, etc.

There are federal and state scenic beautification grants that can be secured to fund wire burying costs. There are also innovative ways for the City to levy a very small additional tax on the sales of utilities for a defined set of years - say 5 - that goes directly toward funding the improvement (San Antonio did this to fund its wire burying program).

All it takes is for it to be prioritized. In a city that literally can't sweep its own streets, I have very little faith that our politicians - who don't seem to notice (or worse, care about) the filthy state of our streets - would take notice of this issue.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

A percentage of revenue should go towards investment in any endeavor. Outside of utility operation and maintenance expense, a certain percentage should be invested in modernization. Overhead line burial is a very visible example of utility modernization.

Within 20 years we'll have a man walking on Mars. In the meantime we're still nailing wires to lilting, branchless trees like we did in the 1850s.


Photo from Wikipedia

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by McBane

If I had a trillion dollars, for sure, I would bury the electric lines that dot the city and replace those electric poles with trees! The city needs more trees and less unsightly utility poles. But yea, it's about item 524 on the list of things Philly needs.

We'll get Mexico to pay for it!

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by Londonee

You make it sound like no other city in the world has managed to accomplish this impossible feat. Frankly, every world class city other than parts of San Fran and Tokyo has managed to figure this out.

Outside of the obvious scenic and QOL improvement of buried wires, studies actually show that beyond the initial investment, it reduces down the line costs of maintenance (poles falling, trees falling on wires, etc.) significantly. Other added benefits include increased property values on blocks with buried wires = increased tax revenue for the city, etc.

There are federal and state scenic beautification grants that can be secured to fund wire burying costs. There are also innovative ways for the City to levy a very small additional tax on the sales of utilities for a defined set of years - say 5 - that goes directly toward funding the improvement (San Antonio did this to fund its wire burying program).

All it takes is for it to be prioritized. In a city that literally can't sweep its own streets, I have very little faith that our politicians - who don't seem to notice (or worse, care about) the filthy state of our streets - would take notice of this issue.

This. All if this.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

This. All if this.

I agree with Londonee too. But at least we have a city where it's safe for illegals to pay soda tax.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by 1487

and who is supposed to pay for that? Ask the customers if they are willing to shoulder the burden. None of this is free.

I own a house in Northern Liberties and I'd be more than happy to pay for it.

Put a surcharge on my electric bill based on my zipcode. Or put an additional assessment on my real estate tax bill that expires in ten years or so in the same manner that you would when a condo building upgrades its facilities for residents.

There are many ways to do it. Just do it. They're hideous.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by McBane

If I had a trillion dollars, for sure, I would bury the electric lines that dot the city and replace those electric poles with trees! The city needs more trees and less unsightly utility poles. But yea, it's about item 524 on the list of things Philly needs.

World class cities can walk and chew gum at the same time.

[1487]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

A percentage of revenue should go towards investment in any endeavor. Outside of utility operation and maintenance expense, a certain percentage should be invested in modernization. Overhead line burial is a very visible example of utility modernization. Government has a role in pushing for these investments, not as a concession, but as an agreement with the deregulated profit driven energy producers. This is not a moonshot, it's a perfectly reasonable expectation.

PECO nor any other utility invests hundreds of millions for aesthetics. They will spend the money if there is evidence of frequent disruption of service. And even if they do spend the money they will charge the customers. PWD and PGW bills are and will be going up to deal with acceleration of main replacement and in PWDs case, dealing with stormwater management. Whatever gets improved leads to higher bills.

[1487]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I own a house in Northern Liberties and I'd be more than happy to pay for it.

Put a surcharge on my electric bill based on my zipcode. Or put an additional assessment on my real estate tax bill that expires in ten years or so in the same manner that you would when a condo building upgrades its facilities for residents.

There are many ways to do it. Just do it. They're hideous.

You can rest assured that you are in the minority. Under most circumstance customers are rarely begging their service provider to increase rates for ANY reason. And it has nothing do with with taxes, the city doesn't regulate or direct PECO in any way. So tax dollars are irrelevant to this issue. A lot of stuff in Philly is hideous, including all the trash on the streets. Im much more offended by that. Burying lines in an old city where there is a huge mishmash of existing utilities underground is an enormous and expensive undertaking.

[Tlphila]

Originally Posted by 1487

You can rest assured that you are in the minority. Under most circumstance customers are rarely begging their service provider to increase rates for ANY reason. And it has nothing do with with taxes, the city doesn't regulate or direct PECO in any way. So tax dollars are irrelevant to this issue. A lot of stuff in Philly is hideous, including all the trash on the streets. Im much more offended by that. Burying lines in an old city where there is a huge mishmash of existing utilities underground is an enormous and expensive undertaking.

Nailed it 1487. I mean yes the wires are horrid, but lets get all the damn trash off the streets! I mean that is a realistic goal in the short term and would massively improve Philly's aesthetic.