Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

[twoNeurons]

personally, i LOVE the SkyTrain viaduct on the Millennium Line... only wish it was wider. It provides great shelter when riding the CVG.

[whatnext]

So if people actually wanted a real world example of what it's like to lose a critical piece of infrastructure in regular time (not sanitized Olympics-time) check out the gridlock around Downtown/Broadway tonight due to the closure of the Granville Street Bridge. Mayhem!

[Migrant_Coconut]

Yup, some kind of "police incident."

Same thing on the Burrard Bridge yesterday. All the buses were rerouted onto Granville, and THAT was a 10-15 minute crawl just to get to Davie.

[mcminsen]

I was riding a bus into downtown over the Cambie Bridge a couple of hours ago and it was pretty slow. I heard the bus driver tell someone that there was a "jumper" on the Granville Bridge this afternoon so it was closed down. And he also mentioned the closure of the Burrard Bridge yesterday and that it was also a jumper but they jumped in front of a bus.

I've never mentioned it on this forum before but in the past couple of years I've personally come across three different suicide/attempted suicide incidents. I guess that's what can happen if you spend as much time on the streets as I do. And of course, these things don't get reported as anything other than a "police incident".

A couple of years ago I was exiting the Commercial/Broadway station and saw that Commercial had been completely shut down as the police tried to talk down a guy sitting at the top of the fence separating the sidewalk from the ravine. This was a really high fence and I was astonished that someone was able to climb to the top. I didn't stick around so I don't know what happened after I left.

This past winter after I exited the Choices store at Davie and Richards I looked ahead and saw a body on the sidewalk (on Richards, just across from Emery Barnes Park) and at that same instant I heard some shouting and screaming and several people came running up to the body. A young woman had just jumped from the high rise there and a man who saw it happen was hysterical. I just walked around them and kept going.

And then a couple months later I was on the east side of Granville Bridge getting some pics of Vancouver House when some police cars came rushing onto the bridge from both directions. The police officers jumped out and started looking over the railing. When I saw that I knew what it was. I watched later as they pulled a woman's body out of the water and started doing CPR on one of the docks just under the north end of the bridge.

It's one thing to hear the abstract reporting of the incidents but it's a whole different thing when you see the bodies and all the people dealing with it. I used to be adamantly opposed to the erection of the suicide fencing on the Burrard Bridge but I don't know what to think now.

[officedweller]

Granville Bridge is still closed.
7:55pm.
But Howe Street is now clear - rush hour is over.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by mcminsen

It's one thing to hear the abstract reporting of the incidents but it's a whole different thing when you see the bodies and all the people dealing with it. I used to be adamantly opposed to the erection of the suicide fencing on the Burrard Bridge but I don't know what to think now.

As you said, people who want to commit suicide on the Burrard Bridge ain't gonna let a little thing like 2.5m fencing stop them... so it seems we've effectively wasted several million CAD on that.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by whatnext

So if people actually wanted a real world example of what it's like to lose a critical piece of infrastructure in regular time (not sanitized Olympics-time) check out the gridlock around Downtown/Broadway tonight due to the closure of the Granville Street Bridge. Mayhem!

And while they were shooting a movie. That wasn’t quote unquote real time? When people know a certain bridge or street is closed, the traffic load evens out quite nicely. Do you seriously think if the Granville bridge was closed on Monday people wouldn’t adjust?

[officedweller]

Still closed @ 10:55 pm.

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

As you said, people who want to commit suicide on the Burrard Bridge ain't gonna let a little thing like 2.5m fencing stop them... so it seems we've effectively wasted several million CAD on that.

I've always mentioned that an unstable person will always find the path of least resistance and for all reasons practical it is not up to a transit authority or council to make expensive decisions that only look good on paper.
Burrard Bridge is an example. If you turn for the edge and get blocked by the railing, turn 180 degrees and head straight into traffic.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Still closed @ 10:55 pm.

Which is ridiculous. A six lane bridge closed down for one crazy person? Unless they have a gun there is no reason traffic in one direction can't be let through.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by logan5

And while they were shooting a movie. That wasn’t quote unquote real time? When people know a certain bridge or street is closed, the traffic load evens out quite nicely. Do you seriously think if the Granville bridge was closed on Monday people wouldn’t adjust?

Yeah, trying to point to traffic chaos from an unscheduled emergency closure of a bridge as an example of what would happen from a scheduled and well-advertised closure of a bridge/viaduct is bonkers. How bad was the traffic congestion when the Georgia Viaduct was closed when they filmed Deadpool?

[djmk]

my paramedic friend says there is a jumper at least once a week off those two bridges.

And often it's someone coming off meth who can't take it and jumps.

sad and it's just way to easy to do it.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Yeah, trying to point to traffic chaos from an unscheduled emergency closure of a bridge as an example of what would happen from a scheduled and well-advertised closure of a bridge/viaduct is bonkers. How bad was the traffic congestion when the Georgia Viaduct was closed when they filmed Deadpool?

And you are sure people were not inconvenienced, annoyed or even delayed during those times? 100% sure?

Also, without the Georgia Viaduct, I wonder where they could film Deadpool. So the viaducts are MORE than just vital.

[Aroundtheworld]

Originally Posted by Vin

Also, without the Georgia Viaduct, I wonder where they could film Deadpool. So the viaducts are MORE than just vital.

Really? Of the legitimate arguments against taking down the viaducts, this is not one of them. You don't let film making dictate city planning policy.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld

Really? Of the legitimate arguments against taking down the viaducts, this is not one of them. You don't let let film making dictate city planning policy.

You are highly mistaken: It's the other way round. Good planning in the past created such an important infrastructure that also allows this City to benefit way more than the traffic they help to carry every single day.

Originally Posted by djmk

my paramedic friend says there is a jumper at least once a week off those two bridges.

And often it's someone coming off meth who can't take it and jumps.

sad and it's just way to easy to do it.

You should also ask your paramedic friend if his ambulance ever gets stuck on the viaducts, especially when leaving downtown.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Vin

And you are sure people were not inconvenienced, annoyed or even delayed during those times? 100% sure?

They were, for sure, but the congestion wasn't anything like what happened last week. And the road network will sort itself out very quickly after the viaducts come down.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

They were, for sure, but the congestion wasn't anything like what happened last week. And the road network will sort itself out very quickly after the viaducts come down.

How are you so sure about that? The bottle neck and jams at the Dunsmuir viaduct never "sort itself out" after the City introduced the bike lanes and restricted turns. Removal of the viaducts has way more impact, so how come you are so confident?

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

They were, for sure, but the congestion wasn't anything like what happened last week. And the road network will sort itself out very quickly after the viaducts come down.

Originally Posted by Vin

How are you so sure about that? The bottle neck and jams at the Dunsmuir viaduct never "sort itself out" after the City introduced the bike lanes and restricted turns. Removal of the viaducts has way more impact, so how come you are so confident?

OK fine, take down the Viaducts, but please offset that reduction in lane space with something like a "Hyde Park Underpass" to lighten surface traffic.
Several such viaducts whose express pupose is to cut under interchanges and keep surface traffic fluid will pay off big time in the future, I am sure.
They don't have to be massive, just well-placed.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Vin

How are you so sure about that? The bottle neck and jams at the Dunsmuir viaduct never "sort itself out" after the City introduced the bike lanes and restricted turns. Removal of the viaducts has way more impact, so how come you are so confident?

Famous Vancouver Planning Strategy; "Things will just "sort themselves out"

[trofirhen]

I was just watching a "yeah, but" type of video which shows the new NEFC plans after the Viaducts are taken down. The narrator admits that a lot could be done with the space under the Viaducts, but... the Viaducts are not seismically fit. Is that true? Are they not seismically fit? (Presumably for when the Big One strikes). Does anyone have an answer for that? Thank you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsU6Hu4HG_k