PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread II

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

What's fascinating is I actually find you guys to have a very elitist attitude about Philadelphia. Essentially the case you guys are making the case Center City, that while it has the infrastructure and transit to support a bigger city, it needs to be frozen in time as single family homes and 19th century apartment buildings, even if it comes at the expense of the rest of the city and it's history. It's also completely untrue that it doesn't reduce and effect development. Chinatown really will become the hub of gentrification now that WSW has walled itself off too

Neither of us are making that argument. Please reread our posts. You’re smarter than this and you don’t need to resort to a strawman fallacy.

Neither of us are advocating for Center City to be frozen in time. While historic architecture is important and gives a city character, cities are not museums. What we are advocating for is perhaps developing the myriad of empty, abandoned lots (both in this historic district and elsewhere around the city) before considering tearing down some of what makes Philadelphia, Philadelphia.

What’s interesting to me is that your argument appears contradictory—you decry WSW becoming “static,” yet you also decry the so-called “gentrification” of Chinatown? Which is it? Are neighborhoods supposed to change and grow or remain static? Do only certain neighborhoods get to remain static? That would be elitist.

For what it’s worth, I’d also support any and all historic preservation effort in Chinatown. It’s another part of what makes Philadelphia special.

[TempleGuy1000]

I'm not decrying "gentrification", I'm just pointing out the counter point, if that's the only place where 3+ story buildings are suppose to be built. That's what is going to get said. Take 2112 Walnut for example in Rittenhouse. A prime location and building that in a healthy city would not be a vacant 2 story office space for sale. The historical commission decided vacancy was better than new property tax revenue and vibrancy. Spending a decade living in Rittenhouse shaped my view that the historic district is a negative thing. It's preventing good small scale urbanize from being built, producing extreme apartment towers and ridiculous multiple million dollar single family homes.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

I'm not decrying "gentrification", I'm just pointing out the counter point, if that's the only place where 3+ story buildings are suppose to be built. That's what is going to get said. Take 2112 Walnut for example in Rittenhouse. A prime location and building that in a healthy city would not be a vacant 2 story office space for sale. The historical commission decided vacancy was better than new property tax revenue and vibrancy. Spending a decade living in Rittenhouse shaped my view that the historic district is a negative thing. It's preventing good small scale urbanize from being built, producing extreme apartment towers and ridiculous multiple million dollar single family homes.

2112 Walnut was a multi-million dollar condo project, not affordable apartments. I feel as if though your post is missing that context.

I don’t disagree that letting the building remain vacant is a poor idea, and I would love to see an overbuild on that site. I would have to read deeper into the Commission’s official reasons for rejection before I comment any further.

It’s also not like Rittenhouse is poor urbanism. Center City is the densest downtown outside of Midtown Manhattan. Yet another midrise condo project isn’t going to solve the housing crisis (as opposed to, say, building on one of the myriad of abandoned lots around the city).

On the flip side, allow me to pull from one of the countless examples of the opposite. Adleman and his development company saw it fit to begin demolition of some historic properties at 41st and Walnut. While historic and objectively beautiful, they were his property and not protected or listed. Fine. The proposed new build would’ve been 10+ stories of student and affordable housing. Also fine in theory ( in my experience student housing is highway robbery). Except, after demolishing one of the existing (and fully occupied!) apartment buildings to make way, they decided to “change tact.” It is now a parking lot, and will remain so for years to come. No historic district responsible for this travesty, just greed. It’s a tale as old as time.

[Skintreesnail]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

More bikes and pedestrians, fewer cars: A $100M rethink of Philly’s historical district

Now this is great news that is an absolutely no-brainer. Making our actual historic sites a more pleasurable experience will do so much more for tourism and preservation efforts. Montreal is a city I would absolutely look to to emulate. The setup of their downtown is pretty similar to Philadelphia with the old city along the river and the modern downtown behind.

Another link to the project site. It would be great to see more of this kind of thing across the city, but a good start. I really love the idea of a market on dock Street by the merchant exchange building. Maybe something like faneuil hall, which serves a different purpose than reading terminal market. I feel like there are so many great urban planning projects underway at the same time, i just hope they all move forward still. Thinking of the parkway redesign, broad street improvements, spring garden Greenway, 30th street master plan, rail park extension, 676 caps.

https://inht.org/vision-for-historical-philadelphia/

[ScreamShatter]

So the arena got approved?! Thanks Mayor Parker! She continues to impress!

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

So the arena got approved?! Thanks Mayor Parker! She continues to impress!

She endorsed it, council would still need to approve it.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

She endorsed it, council would still need to approve it.

Kudos to her. I thought she might cave. She’s doing the right thing.

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Kudos to her. I thought she might cave. She’s doing the right thing.

In her statement, she said something acknowledging Chinatown's concerns. I wonder what sort of concession she'll be making for them.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal

In her statement, she said something acknowledging Chinatown's concerns. I wonder what sort of concession she'll be making for them.

Hopefully, she focuses on improving transit and discouraging car culture, and not some type of historical protection for Chinatown.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal

In her statement, she said something acknowledging Chinatown's concerns. I wonder what sort of concession she'll be making for them.

Cap rents in the area to prevent Asian owners from SCREWING THEIR OWN PEOPLE. We all talk about the gentrification thing ruining Chinatown but it's all owned by Asian companies and landlords.

[BroadandMarket]

Originally Posted by Redddog

Cap rents in the area to prevent Asian owners from SCREWING THEIR OWN PEOPLE. We all talk about the gentrification thing ruining Chinatown but it's all owned by Asian companies and landlords.

This is the dirty secret no one is talking about. Chinatown is almost entirely owned by Chinese-American landlords. It's all on atlas.gov.

Also gentrification will happen in Chinatown and it will be blamed on the 76ers in 30 years but we'll all know that it was more about the 676 stitch. The north end of Chinatown around Vine is the most underutilized area in all of center city.

[bdurk]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

This is the dirty secret no one is talking about. Chinatown is almost entirely owned by Chinese-American landlords. It's all on atlas.gov.

Also gentrification will happen in Chinatown and it will be blamed on the 76ers in 30 years but we'll all know that it was more about the 676 stitch. The north end of Chinatown around Vine is the most underutilized area in all of center city.

Bingo. The 676 cap and Rail Park extension are so much more of a threat to Chinatown but no one is talking about it at all. Northern Liberties development is already seeping into Callowhill and we all know what comes next.

[Skintreesnail]

Anyone know what happened with the food hall that was supposed to open at Schuylkill yards in the bulletin building?

[blart]

9/19
800 block of N 2nd

[PHLtoNYC]

A downgrade, especially for a building this beautiful.

Center City hotel changing brands after less than a year under new owner
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...Pos=1#cxrecs_s

The 202-room Le Meridien Philadelphia will be rebranded to the Courtyard Philadelphia Downtown, according to an industry source and marketing material. It is unclear when the flag change will officially take place or what, if any, adjustments will be made to the property as part of the change.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

NYC and London are actively demolishing buildings with 100x more significance than the random 3 story buildings zero people care about in Philadelphia. Washington Square West's un-uniform hodgepodge architecture doesn't sniff the Upper East Side's glided age history. People in London would laugh you out of the room with the insignificant buildings being preserved for eternity especially considering center city is surrounded by 100sq miles of similarly aged ones that are decaying and falling over. Philly people actively cheer on the fact that the city's best days are behind us. Got to preserve the lawyers home values and prevent growth to ensure the decay of the rest of the city

This is a rather odd comment all together. New York is a different can of worms (I’m not even gonna go there), but as McGrath mentioned the UK, London and Europe in general have arguably the strictest preservation codes in the world - much more so than the US, which shouldn’t come much of a shock to anyone. There is essentially blanket preservation of most pre war buildings in Central London. What buildings are you specifically referring to that are being demolished? The only preservation battle I’m aware of there is Orchard House which has been going back and forth for years.

Have you actually been to London? There are countless seemingly mundane but charming storefronts, small rowhouses etc that are impeccably maintained but subject to strict regulations often down to paint color, which isn’t even a factor here. PHC isn’t preserving rando decaying lots and rowhouses in North or West Philly. Look at a designation map, the vast majority of the city isn’t protected. Center City is the aesthetic and historical jewel of the city. I often overhear European visitors say how much it reminds them of Europe architecturally. Why anyone would throw that away is beyond me. Philly struggles with a lot of things unfortunately (it probably isn’t going to become an economic powerhouse anything soon) but the one thing it outshines most cities, even around the world, is its historic architectural beauty. It’s often baffles me why people choose to live here who don’t appreciate that.

[Dan1]

Originally Posted by Skintreesnail

Anyone know what happened with the food hall that was supposed to open at Schuylkill yards in the bulletin building?

They just got a liquor license for the space and are still saying "2024" for opening. Although the last time I walked by it seemed like they had made little progress. They did recently install a new front entrance, so it seems to be very slowly moving along. I don't think it's tied go Urbanspace anymore, as they sold off all their food halls to new owners.

[PHLtoNYC]

^ 9/19
800 block of N 2nd

The black with balconies looks cool actually, makes it appear higher quality than it actually is. The building to the right is okay, but I fear that white color won't age well.

And is it just the picture, or is the ground floor on those buildings really short? I figured the ground floor would need to be ~12'+ to accommodate a restaurant or grocer.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

^ 9/19
800 block of N 2nd

The black with balconies looks cool actually, makes it appear higher quality than it actually is. The building to the right is okay, but I fear that white color won't age well.

And is it just the picture, or is the ground floor on those buildings really short? I figured the ground floor would need to be ~12'+ to accommodate a restaurant or grocer.

Regardless, this is transformational for 2nd Street. Those empty lots and Plumbing Supply Company that were there prior to these developments causes a huge dead zone and sort of separated what I think of as the "north" portion of 2nd Street in NoLibs (near the Piazza etc) and the "south" portion (near 700 Club etc). It sort of completes and heals the corridor.

Additionally, unlike previous developments on this portion of the street, these buildings have the appropriate height and density to support quality retail tenants. In the earlier era of development, the subset of buildings that were built ground up in this section (ex the Foodery Building) were contrained to 38 feet by both the old zoning code and a group of cantankerous anti-development neighbors who were trying to prevent "shadows" on the street.

My guess is the 1st floor heights in these buildings are 14-16+ feet which is what's expected from quality commercial tenants. The old spaces were 12 feet max, some I remember capped out at 10 feet. Hopefully this helps them secure quality tenants.

[Broadcastthatboom]

I saw some activity happening on the empty lot between 22nd and 23rd and Walnut when I was walking to work today (some digging and equipment, maybe utility stuff I'm not sure), any info on that parcel?