The future of Ottawa's Transit

[1overcosc]

It's so efficient! say the transit planners and accountants who drive in private autos to and from their place of work.

The solution of course is to require everybody in the OC upper echelons to take OC. Hell, make the whole city council do it too.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It also demonstrated that crush loading buses is an inefficient way to deliver transit service. Crush loading slow downs service dramatically.

Frankly, I would rather get on a crush-loaded bus than wait 30 mins to an hr for the next bus with ample space. At least then I can take a nap leaning against a pole knowing that I don't have to be alert enough to wave the driver down in case he/she misses my stop.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Buggys

Frankly, I would rather get on a crush-loaded bus than wait 30 mins to an hr for the next bus with ample space. At least then I can take a nap leaning against a pole knowing that I don't have to be alert enough to wave the driver down in case he/she misses my stop.

I'd rather that not be the only options available.

Even some very frequent buses get crush-loaded. You don't need to wait 30 minutes; in four minutes another crush-loaded one will be along.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I'd rather that not be the only options available.

Even some very frequent buses get crush-loaded. You don't need to wait 30 minutes; in four minutes another crush-loaded one will be along.

That's how the #12 is sometimes. Doesn't help when they assign 40 footers on that route in rush hour.

[1overcosc]

Doesn't help when they assign 40 footers on that route in rush hour.

And yet they put artics on rural routes to Vars. (I'm not joking. Look at a 232 trip next time you're downtown at rush hour).

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

And yet they put artics on rural routes to Vars. (I'm not joking. Look at a 232 trip next time you're downtown at rush hour).

Those routes can get surprisingly full, although the Vars run is probably the least used.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Buggys

Frankly, I would rather get on a crush-loaded bus than wait 30 mins to an hr for the next bus with ample space. At least then I can take a nap leaning against a pole knowing that I don't have to be alert enough to wave the driver down in case he/she misses my stop.

In this case, the bus was to the point that there was no choice. The bus just drove by people because there was no room. The problem was that there was not enough buses to meet the demand at that particular time. I don't think you would be taking a nap with people yelling at each other.

[rocketphish]

City and airport authority study possibilities for rail link

By David Reevely, OTTAWA CITIZEN July 8, 2013 1:06 PM

OTTAWA — The Ottawa airport authority and the city government are studying the best way to extend rail service to the Macdonald-Cartier International Airport.

The $227,000 study is to be finished in September and its results included in the city’s “transportation master plan,” the long-range vision for billions of dollars of road, rail, bus and cycling projects, said Jeff Byrne, the city’s chief procurement officer. The existence of the study, being carried out by transportation consulting firm Delcan, is revealed in a quarterly report on dozens of normally routine contracts let by senior city officials without running them past city council.

The city and the airport authority, which asked for the study, are splitting the cost, Byrne said. Delcan is the city’s favourite firm for rail planning, doing the primary work for both the first phase of rail, which is beginning construction now, and its western extension to Baseline station.

“It’s really sort of a high level study looking at aligning our planning effort with the city’s,” explained Michael Crockatt, the airport’s vice-president of business development. The airport is satisfied for now with its transit connection, the end of the line for the No. 97 Transitway bus, but its own long-range plan calls for the airport to become a hub of commerce and government employment and it’ll need better service for that to work.

Although the current O-Train line ends quite a bit farther north at Greenboro, the tracks it uses run right past the airport and beyond to south Gloucester. The city’s plans call for that line to be developed and, eventually, converted to the same electric light-rail technology it’s installing downtown.

The airport’s master plan includes a spur extending from the existing track to the terminal, though spurs that short can be difficult to integrate into regular rail service. One of the reasons the city rejects Carling Avenue as a route for a western extension of the first light-rail line is that it would leave Tunney’s Pasture hanging off by itself on the end of a spur, confusing riders about which trains end up where and how frequently. That’s likely the sort of problem that Delcan’s work is meant to resolve.

“We’ve always contemplated some sort of transit — rail transit — connection to the airport,” Crockatt said, though the study doesn’t prejudge anything. “It could be everything from different rail technologies to bus technology. We don’t know what the outcomes are going to be.”

Don’t get too excited about the prospect of taking a train to catch a flight soon, though. It took Toronto 20 years and eventually the promise of the Pan-Am Games to begin building a rail link from downtown to Pearson International Airport.

“I don’t think there’s going to be anything imminent that comes out of it,” Crockatt said.

[email protected]

ottawacitizen.com/greaterottawa
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/City+a...ssibilities+rail+link/8630253/story.html

[lrt's friend]

One of the reasons the city rejects Carling Avenue as a route for a western extension of the first light-rail line is that it would leave Tunney’s Pasture hanging off by itself on the end of a spur, confusing riders about which trains end up where and how frequently. That’s likely the sort of problem that Delcan’s work is meant to resolve.

Naturally, I said it all along that the Tunney's Pasture terminus was predetermining the western extension route.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

City and airport authority study possibilities for rail link

By David Reevely, OTTAWA CITIZEN July 8, 2013 1:06 PM

OTTAWA — The Ottawa airport authority and the city government are studying the best way to extend rail service to the Macdonald-Cartier International Airport.

The $227,000 study is to be finished in September and its results included in the city’s “transportation master plan,” the long-range vision for billions of dollars of road, rail, bus and cycling projects, said Jeff Byrne, the city’s chief procurement officer. The existence of the study, being carried out by transportation consulting firm Delcan, is revealed in a quarterly report on dozens of normally routine contracts let by senior city officials without running them past city council.

The city and the airport authority, which asked for the study, are splitting the cost, Byrne said. Delcan is the city’s favourite firm for rail planning, doing the primary work for both the first phase of rail, which is beginning construction now, and its western extension to Baseline station.

“It’s really sort of a high level study looking at aligning our planning effort with the city’s,” explained Michael Crockatt, the airport’s vice-president of business development. The airport is satisfied for now with its transit connection, the end of the line for the No. 97 Transitway bus, but its own long-range plan calls for the airport to become a hub of commerce and government employment and it’ll need better service for that to work.

Although the current O-Train line ends quite a bit farther north at Greenboro, the tracks it uses run right past the airport and beyond to south Gloucester. The city’s plans call for that line to be developed and, eventually, converted to the same electric light-rail technology it’s installing downtown.

The airport’s master plan includes a spur extending from the existing track to the terminal, though spurs that short can be difficult to integrate into regular rail service. One of the reasons the city rejects Carling Avenue as a route for a western extension of the first light-rail line is that it would leave Tunney’s Pasture hanging off by itself on the end of a spur, confusing riders about which trains end up where and how frequently. That’s likely the sort of problem that Delcan’s work is meant to resolve.

“We’ve always contemplated some sort of transit — rail transit — connection to the airport,” Crockatt said, though the study doesn’t prejudge anything. “It could be everything from different rail technologies to bus technology. We don’t know what the outcomes are going to be.”

Don’t get too excited about the prospect of taking a train to catch a flight soon, though. It took Toronto 20 years and eventually the promise of the Pan-Am Games to begin building a rail link from downtown to Pearson International Airport.

“I don’t think there’s going to be anything imminent that comes out of it,” Crockatt said.

[email protected]

ottawacitizen.com/greaterottawa
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/City+a...ssibilities+rail+link/8630253/story.html

If the airport terminal was on the east side, it would be a whole lot easier. I can think of 4 possibilities:

1) A dedicated air-bus or air-train from a station at Lester Road to the airport terminal, running every few minutes. It requires a transfer though, even if only a brief one.

2) A spur route, splitting service in half at Lester Road (similar to Vancouver). Problem is that there is likely to be far more ridership south of the airport at the ultimate stage so that could create peak-period imbalances. Spurs don't work too well with imbalanced ridership as the frequency would be tough to manage. Also it forces a transfer for those coming from the south to the airport (low ridership now but likely to increase).

3) A quasi-loop routing, run it to the airport, under the terminal, then back towards Leitrim Road. Much of that would have to be underground though and an existing corridor is pretty much wasted. But it keeps everything on a single line.

4) A direct connection from the airport terminal, diagonally, to Riverside South. Again, that is underground, and also skips Leitrim Road (a potential valuable connection) completely as well. It does improve the situation for those in Riverside South as it provides a quicker route into town.

My preference: Option 3, if it is cost-effective. Otherwise, I would go for Option 1.

One final note - I believe initially it is best to connect it to the O-Train corridor (hopefully extended to Gatineau). Ultimately though, the O-Train should be detached again and the airport/Riverside South route connected to the Bank Street underground corridor that many of us suggest on here.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

That's how the #12 is sometimes. Doesn't help when they assign 40 footers on that route in rush hour.

You mis-spelled "all the friggin' time".

[Dado]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Naturally, I said it all along that the Tunney's Pasture terminus was predetermining the western extension route.

Really the route of the western extension was effectively predetermined thirty+ years ago when the decision was taken to build the Scott St. trench for the West Transitway.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by uhuniau

you mis-spelled "all the friggin' time".

lol

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

In this case, the bus was to the point that there was no choice. The bus just drove by people because there was no room. The problem was that there was not enough buses to meet the demand at that particular time. I don't think you would be taking a nap with people yelling at each other.

Lol, ok no nap then. Yeah, both being on such a super packed bus AND having to wait at the stop longer are crappy options.

I'd still lean towards getting sardined than wait though. I want to get to my destination sooner rather than later, dammit!

[lrt's friend]

This came from another discussion.

Originally Posted by J. Will

I believe "rail bias" is a myth. People care primarily about speed and service frequency (especially for commuting, where hours of operation are less of a concern for most). If people aren't using bus routes in a city that are slow and/or infrequent, it's likely they aren't using them BECAUSE they are slow and/or infrequent (of course the worse combination is slow AND infrequent), not because they are buses.

From my experiences in the last week, it seems that Ottawa City Council, the Transit Commission and OC Transpo are not assessing their decisions as to whether they are getting people to their destinations faster. We are embarking on a multi-billion dollar investment but are we going to be really moving people faster? Are the changes that we have made and are going to make to the bus network going to help? The service changes that were made in the last couple of years were touted to straighten routes to speed up service but really for every route that was made more direct, more routes were made more convoluted. The decisions to use more high capacity buses is reducing frequency and slowing service because of more frequent stopping. I experienced this big time last night.

We see all kinds of reports about service delivery but strictly relates to on-time performance. We see origin-destination surveys. But really what is more important than anything else, is the time a customer takes to get from his or her starting point to his or her destination. Why are we not seeing any assessment of this nature? In my own case, service delivery speed continues to deteriorate. If you really want people to use transit, we need to move people faster whether by train or bus. All the other assessments are secondary.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

This came from another discussion.



From my experiences in the last week, it seems that Ottawa City Council, the Transit Commission and OC Transpo are not assessing their decisions as to whether they are getting people to their destinations faster. We are embarking on a multi-billion dollar investment but are we going to be really moving people faster? Are the changes that we have made and are going to make to the bus network going to help? The service changes that were made in the last couple of years were touted to straighten routes to speed up service but really for every route that was made more direct, more routes were made more convoluted. The decisions to use more high capacity buses is reducing frequency and slowing service because of more frequent stopping. I experienced this big time last night.

We see all kinds of reports about service delivery but strictly relates to on-time performance. We see origin-destination surveys. But really what is more important than anything else, is the time a customer takes to get from his or her starting point to his or her destination. Why are we not seeing any assessment of this nature? In my own case, service delivery speed continues to deteriorate. If you really want people to use transit, we need to move people faster whether by train or bus. All the other assessments are secondary.

That's a good point. Maybe you should start a petition or something asking for that to become part of the discussion. I know I'd sign that kind of petition.

[eternallyme]

According to a report, the free service on Canada Day cost $225,000 in foregone fare revenues. However, the ridership was far higher than normal - about 160,000 passengers through the downtown, which is close to a normal weekday (and about 2x a normal Saturday and 2.5x a normal Sunday, assuming about half the ridership on those days total goes downtown). Overall ridership was less than a normal weekday since there was little entirely non-downtown ridership with most businesses closed and people off.

For 2014, I agree that there should be sponsorship, but it should be maintained and applied to STO service all day as well.

[Beedok]

Does anyone know if the U-pass system works in Gatineau?

[Admiral Nelson]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Does anyone know if the U-pass system works in Gatineau?

Is my U-Pass valid on STO?
Yes, the U-Pass is accepted on regular STO routes following the same restrictions as OC Transpo pass holders riding on STO routes. See http://www.octranspo1.com/tickets-and-passes/transfers_to_and_from_sto for more details.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by Admiral Nelson

Is my U-Pass valid on STO?
Yes, the U-Pass is accepted on regular STO routes following the same restrictions as OC Transpo pass holders riding on STO routes. See http://www.octranspo1.com/tickets-and-passes/transfers_to_and_from_sto for more details.

Thank you. I'm terrible at finding these things myself.