Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Trivial today and to you. Not so much to shareholders staring into the abyss of independence. Like I said, a lot of Quebecers don't understand capital. And sovereignists are always ready to minimize and trivialize the concerns of capitalists, despite a proven track record (inside and outside Canada) of capital fleeing instability.

Pretty sure the percentage of Quebecers who understand capital is roughly similar to the numbers that understand it in Manitoba, or Belgium or Korea.

Jacques Parizeau understood capital, financial markets and economics better than anyone who has ever posted on SSP, I am sure.

In terms of the regulatory environment, sure an independent Quebec might do things slightly differently (as all countries differ a bit from each other) but it would still be a western capitalist economy with conditions highly similar to those found elsewhere.

(And yes I know the two adages that say "nothing is more nervous than a million bucks" and "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush". Without saying there wouldn't be any significant impacts, I think this is all way too dramatic.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Pretty sure the percentage of Quebecers who understand capital is roughly similar to the numbers that understand it in Manitoba, or Belgium or Korea.

Jacques Parizeau understood capital, financial markets and economics better than anyone who has ever posted on SSP, I am sure.

In terms of the regulatory environment, sure an independent Quebec might do things slightly differently (as all countries differ a bit from each other) but it would still be a western capitalist economy with conditions highly similar to those found elsewhere.

(And yes I know the two adages that say "nothing is more nervous than a million bucks" and "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush". Without saying there wouldn't be any significant impacts, I think this is all way too dramatic.)

Also, if capital is all-important, then why aren't all those capital-knowledgeable Canadians itching for us to join the USA, the most capitalized economy in the entire world? Doing so would open up a tremendous amount of wealth opportunities for Canadians that we don't currently have.

[New Brisavoine]

Une super publicité pour le Québec à l'international...

https://twitter.com/djemilaben/statu...12683658822076

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In terms of the regulatory environment, sure an independent Quebec might do things slightly differently (as all countries differ a bit from each other) but it would still be a western capitalist economy with conditions highly similar to those found elsewhere.

Perhaps they imagine that an independent Québec would become a Catholic theocracy where all businesses would be run by the state and you would all have to listen to the president's speech at 6pm on the radio everyday.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Une super publicité pour le Québec à l'international...

https://twitter.com/djemilaben/statu...12683658822076

Djemila (ancienne candidate du Parti Québécois) n'en manque pas une et prend bien soin de préciser que Concordia est une université *anglophone*.

Beaucoup de gens dans cette vidéo ne sont fort probablement pas originaires du Québec, et même parmi ceux qui le sont, plusieurs d'entre eux ne s'identifient sans doute pas comme Québécois.

Car "Québécois" ça fait sans doute trop réactionnaire. haineux, identitaire et rétrograde à leur goût!

[New Brisavoine]

^^En même temps les évènements montrés ne sont pas inventés...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

^^En même temps les évènements montrés ne sont pas inventés...

Nul doute.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Djemila (ancienne candidate du Parti Québécois) n'en manque pas une et prend bien soin de préciser que Concordia est une université *anglophone*.

Beaucoup de gens dans cette vidéo ne sont fort probablement pas originaires du Québec, et même parmi ceux qui le sont, plusieurs d'entre eux ne s'identifient sans doute pas comme Québécois.

Soit dit en passant: un "problème" qui va bientôt se régler tout seul, maintenant que les frais de scolarité de Concordia ne sont plus un beau gros cadeau des contribuables.

[kool maudit]

Concordia a toujours été ainsi, même lorsqu’elle était George Williams.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Soit dit en passant: un "problème" qui va bientôt se régler tout seul, maintenant que les frais de scolarité de Concordia ne sont plus un beau gros cadeau des contribuables.

Je sais qu'il n'y a pas de lien direct, mais penses-tu que les simagrées d'hier donnent le goût au gouvernement de continuer à surfinancer Concordia afin que ces gens puissent venir ici en plus grand nombre?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Concordia a toujours été ainsi, même lorsqu’elle était George Williams.

C'est vrai. Il y a moins longtemps, en 2002 je crois, ils avaient chassé Bibi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfwjiITrXaQ

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Perhaps they imagine that an independent Québec would become a Catholic theocracy where all businesses would be run by the state and you would all have to listen to the president's speech at 6pm on the radio everyday.

Early days Québec separatists were more leftist than today's gang and some even were associated with revolutionaries like the FLN in Algeria. The Parti Québécois for a time flirted with the idea of joining the Socialist International (think of the little rose symbol).

A lot of the economic fear and loathing about Québec separatism is a holdover from that era, though in contemporary reality nothing suggests that the new country would not be a western capitalist economy with a social democratic side, similar to many countries in Western Europe.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Car "Québécois" ça fait sans doute trop réactionnaire. haineux, identitaire et rétrograde à leur goût!

Rien à foutre. C'est eux qui sont haineux.

Ils ne savent que nous culpabiliser pour ce que nous sommes, alors qu'on enseigne soigneusement la juste auto-critique dans l'apprentissage de notre langue.

Ce n'est pas le cas de tout le monde, hein. La faculté de peser le pour et le contre de toute chose est assez remarquable dans notre langue.

Quand ils me demandent - Israël ou Palestine ? Je n'ai pas de réponse et je préfère m'en tenir à la neutralité comme les Suisses, pour ma propre santé mentale.

Quand les autres font les mêmes efforts que ceux auxquels nous avons nous-mêmes consenti depuis longtemps maintenant, je serai prêt à entendre ce qu'ils ont à dire.

En attendant, je ne les considère que comme des hypocrites de peu de morale.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mousquet

Rien à foutre. C'est eux qui sont haineux.

Ces incidents disgrâcieux ne sont qu'une autre preuve que leur complexe de supériorité à notre endroit est basé sur une énorme imposture.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Pretty sure the percentage of Quebecers who understand capital is roughly similar to the numbers that understand it in Manitoba, or Belgium or Korea.

Jacques Parizeau understood capital, financial markets and economics better than anyone who has ever posted on SSP, I am sure.

In terms of the regulatory environment, sure an independent Quebec might do things slightly differently (as all countries differ a bit from each other) but it would still be a western capitalist economy with conditions highly similar to those found elsewhere.

(And yes I know the two adages that say "nothing is more nervous than a million bucks" and "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush". Without saying there wouldn't be any significant impacts, I think this is all way too dramatic.)

Who cares what Jacques Parizeau knew about capitalism? He certainly wasn't motivated it. And guess campaign for separatism wasn't all that motivated by economic and capitalist concerns. He simply said what he had to say, to sell the vision.

And broadly that worked. Plenty of separatists routinely minimize and play down the economic risks of separation. This was my point.

And this is very different from sovereignist policies that promote, protect and push linguistic or cultural priorities. Most of that is not really threatening to capital at a fundamental level.

[mousquet]

I think there are more and more people from Quebec, Belgium and Switzerland working for media networks here in Paris.

They like their countries and would never advertise any separatism of any kind.
They only work over here for their careers, but of course, it doesn't mean they would betray Canada or anything.
Take it easy. Quebecers won't leave Canada for France, eh.

It would actually be better for Western nations to get closer together than to go even more divided, because in case you wouldn't have noticed yet, our common civilization is challenged everywhere in the world.

People in Africa and in Asia are kind of sick of the US influence. And France has been losing ground to Russia in Africa.
Russia... That means Putin and their regime. Yuck.

Even South American countries sometimes act like they don't really belong.
That is beyond me.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Who cares what Jacques Parizeau knew about capitalism? He certainly wasn't motivated it. And guess campaign for separatism wasn't all that motivated by economic and capitalist concerns. He simply said what he had to say, to sell the vision.

And broadly that worked. Plenty of separatists routinely minimize and play down the economic risks of separation. This was my point.

And this is very different from sovereignist policies that promote, protect and push linguistic or cultural priorities. Most of that is not really threatening to capital at a fundamental level.

When you are 100% committed to the cause, you are always willing to accept at least some collateral damage.

The more of a zealot you are, the more you are willing to risk. Different people have different risk/benefit thresholds. Fundamentalists would be willing to do almost anything (like using a flamethrower to burn that pesky mosquito bothering you in the middle of the night to a crisp). Who cares what damage you do to the condo. At least the mosquito is dead and you are free, FREE!!!!

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

A lot of the economic fear and loathing about Québec separatism is a holdover from that era, though in contemporary reality nothing suggests that the new country would not be a western capitalist economy with a social democratic side, similar to many countries in Western Europe.

I think this would work out a lot better than a leftist unaligned or third world style government from the 70's but hasn't the idea that Quebec could leave and integrate well with North America taken a big hit lately?

We just had a pandemic where the US-Canada border was closed for months and restricted for years, something few people talked about in 2019.

We still have 9/11-era border controls and the US is less Canada-oriented than perhaps before the Cold War.

The UK voted for Brexit in 2016 and it's pretty much been a disaster. I'd argue it obviously had a lot of clarity-related issues just like the Quebec referendums (there was no real democratic process or transparency around the specific renegotiation details), and the UK was more autonomous in the EU than Quebec is in Canada.

The world is becoming less and less stable and the USA is looking shakier as the guarantor of global peace. Quebec wants to maintain far-flung arctic territories.

I'm not against Quebec separating or North America developing a Schengen-like arrangement. Actually I think this could be better. I'd be eligible for citizenship if Quebec were a country. I just don't think it would work out well in practice because neither Canada nor the US are very functional right now.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

When you are 100% committed to the cause, you are always willing to accept at least some collateral damage.

Such as... when the American insurgents seceded from the British Empire.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by someone123

I'm not against Quebec separating or North America developing a Schengen-like arrangement. Actually I think this could be better. I'd be eligible for citizenship if Quebec were a country. I just don't think it would work out well in practice because neither Canada nor the US are very functional right now.

Democracies give people the right to shoot themselves in the foot. Brexit is a good demonstration of this.

But I don't see how this could ever work in a way that doesn't result in massive instability and economic loss for all involved. Or even possibly violence. I can't imagine First Nations will suddenly be thrilled to be going from living in a colonized country to a wannabe ethnostate where their rights are likely to further circumscribed.