Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by lightrail

There are 150 Mark 1 cars in service. That would make up 25 6-car trains. So we would need 100 Mark III cars to make up 25 4-car trains.

That's the answer to a different question: how many Mark III cars do we need to replace all the Mark I cars".

I think the original question was meant to ask "how many Mark III cars do we need so that we can run all the Mark-I cars in six-car trains and still have the same frequencies that we have now".

Let's assume that there are 144 Mark-I cars in service at any point in time and that they're all run in 4-car trains. That makes a total of 36 trains. If we take those same cars and run them as 6-car trains then that gives us only 24 trains. That leaves us 12 trains short. To make up the difference with Mark-III trains we'd need 48 Mark-III cars if we run four of them per train.

Of course, the initial batch of 28 cars that are being purchased for the Evergreen line don't count toward that since they'll be required for the new spur. And even if we buy cars beyond that, they may be used to increase frequency rather than to increase the length of the Mark I trains. Longer trains are nice, but not as nice as higher frequencies.

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Of course, the initial batch of 28 cars that are being purchased for the Evergreen line don't count toward that since they'll be required for the new spur. And even if we buy cars beyond that, they may be used to increase frequency rather than to increase the length of the Mark I trains. Longer trains are nice, but not as nice as higher frequencies.

75 seconds will require some checks, retrofits and some other changes to be safely accomodated on a regular basis, as opposed to the current 90 seconds. I'd bet on a train length increase if TransLink exercises the option to order 28 more Mk IIIs.

[lightrail]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

75 seconds will require some checks, retrofits and some other changes to be safely accomodated on a regular basis, as opposed to the current 90 seconds. I'd bet on a train length increase if TransLink exercises the option to order 28 more Mk IIIs.

Why do you say that? Skytrain uses moving block controls and the current system is designed to handle trains as close as 45 seconds.

This happens today when trains are going out of service or into service, or there is a disruption and trains need to get back onto schedule.

There's nothing to check or retrofit. The only thing I can think of is the power supply might need increasing.

The second out of service Skytrain in this video comes through the station only 20 seconds after the rear of the departing train clears the platform.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOtwWBkFAPI

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by lightrail

Why do you say that? Skytrain uses moving block controls and the current system is designed to handle trains as close as 45 seconds.

I really know nothing about this, but one issue I can imagine is that the automated train control system may not have the capacity to handle the extra trains implied by increasing train frequency. Each train requires computing power and communications bandwidth to manage, so it could be that server or networking resources need to be beefed up.

If true, this is something that is presumably being done as part of the Evergreen line project, since it's adding several more trains.

[nname]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

75 seconds will require some checks, retrofits and some other changes to be safely accomodated on a regular basis, as opposed to the current 90 seconds. I'd bet on a train length increase if TransLink exercises the option to order 28 more Mk IIIs.

No, the current control software is already able to dispatch trains at 77s interval. Plus the line had already been running at 80s interval during regular service (ie. Olympics). There should be little problem to increase train frequency.

To run 5-car trains, not only they have do upgrade the ATC software, but they also have to perform modifications to almost all stations. Stations with entrances from the side (ie. Stadium, Main, Broadway, 29th Ave, Metrotown, etc.) need to have platform lengthened or entrance relocated. Burrard station requires a new entrance. All other stations need to have the emergency walkway entrance relocated so they won't be blocked by trains. This is a lot more works to be done than just running train more frequently.

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I really know nothing about this, but one issue I can imagine is that the automated train control system may not have the capacity to handle the extra trains implied by increasing train frequency. Each train requires computing power and communications bandwidth to manage, so it could be that server or networking resources need to be beefed up.

If true, this is something that is presumably being done as part of the Evergreen line project, since it's adding several more trains.

The main issue is power and propulsion system. The original (current) system is capable delivering power to up to around 11,800 pphpd of trains, but we are now running way over the system capacity at 15,000 pphpd. This is why they have this Expo Line power rail upgrade project right now.

[xd_1771]

I could've sworn that the Expo Line Upgrade Strategy document had something about an upgrade need for operating trains at 75 seconds; I must have misread it, I just skimmed through the document again. Thanks for the notice!

[queetz@home]

Ugh! I hate it when this thread gets derailed by all this "blah blah blah" general discussions about Skytrain that really isn't unique to the Evergreen Line. Why oh why can't you all just put it in the Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion thread....

Anyways, some RELEVANT NEWS....

http://www.rail.co/2013/02/15/thales-awarded-evergreen-line-st-contract/

Thales is to install its SelTrac CBTC system on Vancouver’s new SkyTrain extension.

Scheduled for service in 2016, the 11 km Evergreen Line will connect Coquitlam to Vancouver via Port Moody and Burnaby, calling at seven stations.

Under a contract signed earlier this month, Thales will upgrade the existing central control system.

[GeeCee]

New website: http://www.evergreenline.gov.bc.ca/

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

New website: http://www.evergreenline.gov.bc.ca/

Incredible; I cannot find a route map on the new website.

[edit] Why of course, it's in 'News Room' -> 'Media Resources' . Silly of me to look for that sort of information in the 'About the Project' section. Plus a fair amount of material in the media resources section is out of date and contradictory.

[officedweller]

Thanks.

Includes notice about the portal construction:

http://www.evergreenline.gov.bc.ca/docum...130213_NorthTunnelPortalConstruction.pdf

and a new community bulletin:

http://www.evergreenline.gov.bc.ca/documents/CommunityUpdates/130213_CommunityUpdate4.pdf

[queetz@home]

I'm glad they refreshed the website and gave some recent updates. Though some of the old outdate info still remains in the FAQ. No biggie and I'm sure they would fix it soon.

[CBeats]

You're right about stuff being out of date -there's no Lincoln Station on their map.

[Metro-One]

So boring machine is expected to arrive in the fall of this year, that will be exciting! Also nice to see major work commencing this month!

[nname]

All the map and text are going to be updated anyways after they announce the final station name "within a couple of weeks". I wonder why they didn't announce the names first so they won't have to update twice...

[BCPhil]

Interesting that they'll start construction this month but still a while until the tunnel boring machine comes.

I wonder if it's possible to finish and open the section between Lougheed and Burquitlam before the tunnel is done (assuming it takes a long time to build), much like how they opened the line between Columbia and Braid before the rest of the Millennium line. You could probably whip together the elevated guideway and stations (from Lougheed to Burquitlam) in under 2 years.

[finalcoolman]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

I wonder if it's possible to finish and open the section between Lougheed and Burquitlam before the tunnel is done (assuming it takes a long time to build), much like how they opened the line between Columbia and Braid before the rest of the Millennium line. You could probably whip together the elevated guideway and stations (from Lougheed to Burquitlam) in under 2 years.

They could easily and with just be one station that needs to be built, Burquitlam, it could be running by next summer. All the time consuming pre-construction along that corridor is all complete with the North Road widening, the utility relocations, the BC Hydro power-line upgrades and properties are all demolished. All pre-construction in that section is all done. The median along North Rd is literally ready to go this second for full on guideway construction.

The initial demonstatration phase of the SkyTrain which also happened to include just the construction of one station (Main St) and the construction of the elevated guideway along Terminal Ave took literally just a little over one year to build. Construction on it started I think around New Years 1982 and the line was complete and operational for the summer of 1983.

It would dramatically increase accessibility without having to wait all the way till 2016 and reduce the travel time of the 97 B-Line dramatically.

[Alon]

As I recall, the plan after Evergreen opens is to cut the Millennium Line back to Lougheed. It's an acceptable tradeoff to make room for a line that goes to Coquitlam, but maybe not for one that only goes to Burquitlam. Unless the Lougheed-Burquitlam line opens as a shuttle and only takes over the west-of-Lougheed Millennium Line when the full Evergreen Line is built...

[nname]

Well, one of the issue for opening part of the line early is that, we won't get the new trains till probably 2015, and then we need time to test them... Without the new trains, I don't think we would have enough train to run the new line, even for one station...

And I find it funny that their first video in the gallery is private...
So I took a peek using the video ID.. and hey, its a video about the final station names! And I thought Main Street-Science World was a long station name.. Anyways, this show how private those private video are...

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by nname

Well, one of the issue for opening part of the line early is that, we won't get the new trains till probably 2015, and then we need time to test them... Without the new trains, I don't think we would have enough train to run the new line, even for one station...

And I find it funny that their first video in the gallery is private...
So I took a peek using the video ID.. and hey, its a video about the final station names! And I thought Main Street-Science World was a long station name.. Anyways, this show how private those private video are...

I personally doubt they will open the line in phases, but it would be nice if they would. Recall that Amanda Farrell mentioned Burqiutlam work will start this spring (so looking at March 21 to June 21 time frame).

Farrell also noted underground tunnel work is expected to begin in Port Moody this month, while other substantive works are slated to get underway in the Burquitlam area this spring.

Read more: http://www.thenownews.com/SkyTrain+station+names+already+chosen/7936722/story.html#ixzz2L51ncYLq

So there is always that possibility that the one station can open early.

With regards to needing more trains, I really doubt we need the entire new fleet to service that one teeny tiny station. I'm pretty confident the existing fleet can take it as demand won't be that much. Burquitlam as the yet to be urban transit oriented paradise won't spring the ultra large amount of riders as soon as that station opens, even at 2016...plenty of time to test.

[GeeCee]

Aren't the modifications to Lougheed going to take a significant amount of time to complete? I'd think that alone would prevent any sort of early opening for Burquitlam.