Tempe Development Thread

[Tempe_Duck]

Originally Posted by rocksteady

Great news, sounds like a similar plan that was supposed to happen before the recession. Glad to see this taking off again.

Wasn't that project going to have the tower cantilever over the top of the Adobe building (the restaurant)? I wonder how they are going to integrate it this time.

[MegaBass]

ASU adds student-athletic building to Sun Devil Stadium project

On Monday, when Ray Anderson announced the combined $1 million gift he and Todd Graham were making toward a new Sun Devil Stadium, he promised more fundraising specifics soon.

Two days later, Arizona State filed an amended capital-development plan with the Arizona Board of Regents that increases the project budget to $256 million and includes a student-athletic building at the north end of the stadium.

The 84,500-square-foot facility is an addition to the project made possible because of early fundraising success.

The overall fundraising goal is now $85 million — up from $50 million — with $56 million designated to help pay directly for the stadium and the remainder for bond debt service (on $200 million) and operating costs. Public funds are not being used for the stadium, which also will be paid for by athletic-facilities-district revenue and increased stadium revenue, which includes naming rights.

"The more we work through what we need and what we want from both a functional and a fan-experience perspective, the more we recognize what needs to be done through our fundraising efforts," Anderson said. "So we're accelerating our efforts, if anything."

The $256 million budget, pending approval by the regents, is up from a projected $210 million to $225 million. Reconstruction of the stadium will be completed in phases, with ASU continuing to play football in its home since 1958. Completion of the project is projected for August 2017.

Final plans for the student-athletic facility are not yet made, including how much of it will be for football and how much for other athletes. It will be integrated into the stadium and include office/administrative spaces, meeting rooms, support space, study rooms, storage/equipment space, locker rooms plus lounge, training and conferences areas.

The new building will open up space at the Carson Center at the south end of the stadium, which is now close to capacity use. ASU's current space for athlete academic services is among the lowest in the Pac-12.

"The student-athletic facility is a commitment from the university to the men and women who have the privilege of representing Sun Devil athletics," Anderson said. "Every student-athlete who passes through here will know their commitment to ASU is reciprocated."

The ASU football team currently enters the stadium through the Tillman Tunnel at the south end. No decision has been made whether that will continue or if the tunnel will be moved to the north end.

Updated SDS renderings are expected to be revealed around November.

Postino Winecafe at the Art Annex will open Wednesday October 1.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by Tempe_Duck

Wasn't that project going to have the tower cantilever over the top of the Adobe building (the restaurant)? I wonder how they are going to integrate it this time.

These designs sound less scifi. 6,000 of the northern part of the Adobe Building will be preserved (out of 9,000 total square feet) with the development creating a U shape around it. Sounds much more respectable, and the heights shouldn't cause too great of a canyon effect which was a concern of the original proposal.

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

These designs sound less scifi. 6,000 of the northern part of the Adobe Building will be preserved (out of 9,000 total square feet) with the development creating a U shape around it. Sounds much more respectable, and the heights shouldn't cause too great of a canyon effect which was a concern of the original proposal.

I agree. This project is much more realistic, and I think this happens, and on-time. Sound legitimate all the way around.

This is great, as Marina Heights and HFLIII will probably be topped out long before this begins, then USAplace hopefully starts in December with the AC Marriott somewhere in there, and then this next summer! Congrats Tempe!

[Jjs5056]

I can't believe the hotel market in Tempe. Post-boom, they've gotten:
1) Residence Inn by Marriott
2) AC by Marriott
3) Palms Hotel renovation
4) Kimpton Hotels
5) Omni Hotels and Resorts

...all in quite a small area. This should do wonders for the retail scene.

I'm actually more excited about this then USA Place, which only brings one 14-story tower. Obviously, USA Place is a game-changer in the total product it will be bringing, but I can't stop picturing an end-result that seems totally faux urban and segregated from both Mill and ASU. And, I wish at least 1 additional tower was included. Lastly, the revolution of the northern end of Mill has been interesting to see develop, while USA Place is across from properties that have little redevelopment potential.

One property sticks out like a sore thumb amongst all of this: The Mill! I really wish at least a 2-story addition could be added for the interim on the west side to connect it to the street with retail on the first level and either offices or lofts atop. Kudos to the city for what its done, but it still isn't attracting enough pedestrian traffic to keep up with what's going on around it. There's always Ash/University, which I am scared we'll hear details on soon about its 80' project.

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

I can't believe the hotel market in Tempe. Post-boom, they've gotten:
1) Residence Inn by Marriott
2) AC by Marriott
3) Palms Hotel renovation
4) Kimpton Hotels
5) Omni Hotels and Resorts

...all in quite a small area. This should do wonders for the retail scene.

I'm actually more excited about this then USA Place, which only brings one 14-story tower. Obviously, USA Place is a game-changer in the total product it will be bringing, but I can't stop picturing an end-result that seems totally faux urban and segregated from both Mill and ASU. And, I wish at least 1 additional tower was included. Lastly, the revolution of the northern end of Mill has been interesting to see develop, while USA Place is across from properties that have little redevelopment potential.

One property sticks out like a sore thumb amongst all of this: The Mill! I really wish at least a 2-story addition could be added for the interim on the west side to connect it to the street with retail on the first level and either offices or lofts atop. Kudos to the city for what its done, but it still isn't attracting enough pedestrian traffic to keep up with what's going on around it. There's always Ash/University, which I am scared we'll hear details on soon about its 80' project.

Before I finished reading your post my mind also instantly went to the mill. The mill and the parking lot (city owned?) next to Rula Bula. I think the Monti's project will push Tempe to again look at proposals for the mill. Does anyone have any old renderings? I recalled ideas to build retail and condos, somehow... Maybe I'm crazy though.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

Before I finished reading your post my mind also instantly went to the mill. The mill and the parking lot (city owned?) next to Rula Bula. I think the Monti's project will push Tempe to again look at proposals for the mill. Does anyone have any old renderings? I recalled ideas to build retail and condos, somehow... Maybe I'm crazy though.

The plans involved what I described - building retail between the mill and Mill Ave, along with a large glass addition to the eastern portion that would wrap around the entire mill and would serve as a museum for the artifacts found, and also showcase a water exhibit exemplifying how the Hohokam used the canals as power; a wine bar and boutiques were planned for the retail annex frontage as well as the glass centerpiece. Phase II would've converted the silos into a boutique hotel. "Avenue will later build 500,000 square feet of offices, condos and shops on the site, though no timeline has been set."



This was the second major proposal for the mill - by Avenue Communities (developer of CenterPointe). The first was in the 90's by the developer behind the Brickyard, Gordon Biersch building and the Hooters restoration. However, that plan included blowing out a piece of A mountain and faced huge opposition. By the time they had a new plan, they were sliding into bankruptcy and Tempe took back ownership of the land.

As for the parking lot, it's actually owned by The Palms Resort, AFAIK. It would be great to see 5-6 story mixed use lofts lining that entire parking lot on the way to the renovated Mill and dense lakefront.

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

This was the second major proposal for the mill - by Avenue Communities (developer of CenterPointe). The first was in the 90's by the developer behind the Brickyard, Gordon Biersch building and the Hooters restoration. However, that plan included blowing out a piece of A mountain and faced huge opposition. By the time they had a new plan, they were sliding into bankruptcy and Tempe took back ownership of the land.

As for the parking lot, it's actually owned by The Palms Resort, AFAIK. It would be great to see 5-6 story mixed use lofts lining that entire parking lot on the way to the renovated Mill and dense lakefront.

Thanks for digging, awesome proposal, but I can't see the project coming to life in that form today. I googled the old Monti's proposal, it too was outlandish. I don't think retail would be viable for the mill anymore, but I could see 20-30 high-end condos being built there. Maybe with ground level museum/retail. I'm going to ping the council and see if I can't get some interest, they seem to really be thinking big lately, so who knows, maybe they would consider RFPing it out again.

I knew Mission Palms had some land there, but I assumed it was the back lot between the butte and hotel. I wasn't sure if the two rows of parking along the street was their or not. I know they had a huge expansion proposal back in the day as well. I'd say at this point with Twin Palms remodel, AC Marriot, USAplace Renaissance and now this proposed Monti's project that they missed the boat. Not sure what they would consider doing with that land now.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

Thanks for digging, awesome proposal, but I can't see the project coming to life in that form today. I googled the old Monti's proposal, it too was outlandish. I don't think retail would be viable for the mill anymore, but I could see 20-30 high-end condos being built there. Maybe with ground level museum/retail. I'm going to ping the council and see if I can't get some interest, they seem to really be thinking big lately, so who knows, maybe they would consider RFPing it out again.

I knew Mission Palms had some land there, but I assumed it was the back lot between the butte and hotel. I wasn't sure if the two rows of parking along the street was their or not. I know they had a huge expansion proposal back in the day as well. I'd say at this point with Twin Palms remodel, AC Marriot, USAplace Renaissance and now this proposed Monti's project that they missed the boat. Not sure what they would consider doing with that land now.

Why don't you think retail is viable for the mill property? Just curious. With two hotels in walking distance and the Gateway tenants across the street, I think retail on the western side fronting Mill Ave would do quite well.

For the rest of the land, I like the idea of using it as more of a community space. It would be great if a similar glass annex could be added to house the artifacts already collected, along with maybe a bakery where you could see the prep being done from outdoors to tie into the mill's history. For the north end, a small midrise with maybe a downtown community center, library and city museum branch, coworking lab, and artist live/work spaces and/or galleries might be a good mix.

No matter what, it would be a huge attraction to the thousands of hotel guests at the nearby Kimpton and AC Marriott as a symbol of the city.

There's definitely a chance that a portion of the lot belongs to the City. I assumed from previous discussions and the matching landscaped wall that it all belonged to The Mission Palms. Residential, again, would be a really great addition to that area with the current mix on tap.

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Why don't you think retail is viable for the mill property? Just curious. With two hotels in walking distance and the Gateway tenants across the street, I think retail on the western side fronting Mill Ave would do quite well.

For the rest of the land, I like the idea of using it as more of a community space. It would be great if a similar glass annex could be added to house the artifacts already collected, along with maybe a bakery where you could see the prep being done from outdoors to tie into the mill's history. For the north end, a small midrise with maybe a downtown community center, library and city museum branch, coworking lab, and artist live/work spaces and/or galleries might be a good mix.

No matter what, it would be a huge attraction to the thousands of hotel guests at the nearby Kimpton and AC Marriott as a symbol of the city.

There's definitely a chance that a portion of the lot belongs to the City. I assumed from previous discussions and the matching landscaped wall that it all belonged to The Mission Palms. Residential, again, would be a really great addition to that area with the current mix on tap.

It's not that retail itself wouldn't be viable, it's that the cost of construction and preservation would likely be so high that no developer would be able to get their money back on retail alone. They wouldn't be able to charge the extremely high rents they'd need to turn a profit. The city would have to subsidize the construction cost.

Now if they built some high-end condos over retail that could potentially work. I could see 15-20 people willing to shell out $700k-$1.2m to live in ultra modern condos as a historic mill.... Maybe.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

It's not that retail itself wouldn't be viable, it's that the cost of construction and preservation would likely be so high that no developer would be able to get their money back on retail alone. They wouldn't be able to charge the extremely high rents they'd need to turn a profit. The city would have to subsidize the construction cost.

Now if they built some high-end condos over retail that could potentially work. I could see 15-20 people willing to shell out $700k-$1.2m to live in ultra modern condos as a historic mill.... Maybe.

I'd imagine much of the preservation work has been done already. Any retail added along Mill would new construction that wouldn't even be structurally attached to the mill itself.

I'd be okay with either offices or lofts above that retail space, as long as it didn't overwhelm the mill, and that any other new construction be more community-focused or included affordable units. I think the whole "wine bar" craze of Tempe developments was ill-sighted back in the day, and would hate to see a return to a luxury-only planning cycle. As great as these new developments are, it's still a growing city that is - at heart - a college town and I think it needs to keep somewhat of a casual edge to stay authentic.

[MissingAZ]

I don't like the modern buildings next to the mill. I like the mill being old and authentic. Montis development sounds great, I think the area needs that sort of anchor on the north end but to throw a modern cube type building in front of the mill doesn't work well. It clashes styles and hides the mill. I'd love to see the outside of the mill retained and the inside turned into apartments or a boutique hotel. Just so long as it looks like "the mill" still.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by MissingAZ

I don't like the modern buildings next to the mill. I like the mill being old and authentic. Montis development sounds great, I think the area needs that sort of anchor on the north end but to throw a modern cube type building in front of the mill doesn't work well. It clashes styles and hides the mill. I'd love to see the outside of the mill retained and the inside turned into apartments or a boutique hotel. Just so long as it looks like "the mill" still.

HP guidelines actually prefer that additions to historic structures be modern and contrast with the original vs. any kind of faux historic attempt. I very much like the contrast, but keep in mind that the original design included floors of offices and retail; A smaller version holding just a bakery and artifacts would look much more in scale (and not go over the mill, just to the back of it).

I've never heard of the mill being renovated into anything usable, only the silos. It may be too small to turn into anything that would be profitable. But, certainly lofts would be very cool if possible. I think Tempe has reached its limit for hotels.

[poconoboy61]

Honestly the mill needs to be torn down if it can't be rehabbed. It's an eyesore and it looks out of place with Tempe's expanding downtown. It should be demolished and a plaque with some pictures of the place can be put on site and real work can take place.

No one wants to pay top dollar to live on a structurally deficient flour mill. It's clear that it's just left alone for nostalgia purposes, but it serves no good use.

[Spitfiredude]

As a downtown Tempe resident, I really like the Mill as is. I think it serves as a daily reminder of Tempe's history. I see people walking past it everyday looking at the plaques and memorials they have along the structure. Also, every other weekend there is an event going on outside in the new park/lawn they have put int. Its not dead if anyone thinks it is. Honestly, I think they just need to throw some paint on it and set it up as a museum and maybe put a small bakery inside (to go along with the theme). It can show the history of the Mill along with the entire city of Tempe. I think adding modern features to it would be strange and tearing it down would be absurd. Not every spot in Tempe needs to be developed. Its nice to have some history preserved and a park that hosts small events.

[Tito714]

I love the mill. I think its awesome.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by Spitfiredude

As a downtown Tempe resident, I really like the Mill as is. I think it serves as a daily reminder of Tempe's history. I see people walking past it everyday looking at the plaques and memorials they have along the structure. Also, every other weekend there is an event going on outside in the new park/lawn they have put int. Its not dead if anyone thinks it is. Honestly, I think they just need to throw some paint on it and set it up as a museum and maybe put a small bakery inside (to go along with the theme). It can show the history of the Mill along with the entire city of Tempe. I think adding modern features to it would be strange and tearing it down would be absurd. Not every spot in Tempe needs to be developed. Its nice to have some history preserved and a park that hosts small events.

I agree that it definitely needs to be preserved. However, Tempe already has beach park and given that it is prime real estate, I do think some modern additions that are respectful to the original structure while adding retail and community-focused elements would be beneficial to all parties and help connect the lake to downtown, which is really vital. The current setup is a great temporary use, but that corner needs and deserves to be much more of a gateway both into downtown and into the lakefront area.

Nothing taller than the mill, or if so, nothing that would dwarf it/ruin views from the bridge and 202. Additions to the front and back for retail, and a small midrise to the north would be perfect.

No one wants to pay top dollar to live on a structurally deficient flour mill. It's clear that it's just left alone for nostalgia purposes, but it serves no good use.

Please don't state opinion as fact. Plenty would pay to live in lofts if the mill or silos were to be converted. Living in one of the few historic landmarks in downtown Tempe with views and easy access to the lake and downtown? It would be an easy sell. The issue of it being structurally sound is irrelevant - neither would be converted if that couldn't be corrected.

It serves as a gateway into downtown Tempe, is a reminder of the city's routes, and is the reason why MILL Ave even exists. Downtown Tempe is modernizing quickly and the need to preserve its few remaining historic assets is critical for it to have any authentic feel and differentiate itself from competitor mid-sized cities. Glass boxes can be found in any city. It's elements like the mill that give a city its unique charm and identity.

[Spitfiredude]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

It serves as a gateway into downtown Tempe, is a reminder of the city's routes, and is the reason why MILL Ave even exists. Downtown Tempe is modernizing quickly and the need to preserve its few remaining historic assets is critical for it to have any authentic feel and differentiate itself from competitor mid-sized cities. Glass boxes can be found in any city. It's elements like the mill that give a city its unique charm and identity.

Spot on. That's one of the reasons I love Tempe so much. The city and ASU have done a great job in preserving many historic buildings in downtown. This is one of the reasons this city is so unique. Preserving the old while intermixing the new.


On another note, is there any plans for the old community center on the NE corner of Ash/Rio Salado. Its an eyesore, but I think it would be a good spot for some sort of development (residential). If this and the spot on Farmer/Rio (along railroad tracks) were developed into 5-10 story midrises, I think it would be pretty cool looking and complementary.

That site along the railroad tracks....is that the site that the one family refuses to sell. The piece of crap lot that looks like a junk yard? How is there no code violations on this lot.

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by Spitfiredude

On another note, is there any plans for the old community center on the NE corner of Ash/Rio Salado. Its an eyesore, but I think it would be a good spot for some sort of development (residential). If this and the spot on Farmer/Rio (along railroad tracks) were developed into 5-10 story midrises, I think it would be pretty cool looking and complementary.

That site along the railroad tracks....is that the site that the one family refuses to sell. The piece of crap lot that looks like a junk yard? How is there no code violations on this lot.

I was wondering the same thing the other day. That corner of the park looks like crap. Condos overlooking the park would be awesome, but I don't know if I see that happening.

The goods news is, properties continued to get gobbled up and developed at a pace we haven't seen. While some projects such as like the one next to W Sixth seem to be a waste, it is creating a scarcity of land. When that happens, we'll see more single story and older buildings (non-historic) demolished to make room for higher-density projects.

We won't like every project, but the market is speaking, and drastically changing to require projects to be dense and urban in order to be economically viable as land costs increase.

[ciweiss]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

I agree that it definitely needs to be preserved. However, Tempe already has beach park and given that it is prime real estate, I do think some modern additions that are respectful to the original structure while adding retail and community-focused elements would be beneficial to all parties and help connect the lake to downtown, which is really vital. The current setup is a great temporary use, but that corner needs and deserves to be much more of a gateway both into downtown and into the lakefront area.

Nothing taller than the mill, or if so, nothing that would dwarf it/ruin views from the bridge and 202. Additions to the front and back for retail, and a small midrise to the north would be perfect.



Please don't state opinion as fact. Plenty would pay to live in lofts if the mill or silos were to be converted. Living in one of the few historic landmarks in downtown Tempe with views and easy access to the lake and downtown? It would be an easy sell. The issue of it being structurally sound is irrelevant - neither would be converted if that couldn't be corrected.

It serves as a gateway into downtown Tempe, is a reminder of the city's routes, and is the reason why MILL Ave even exists. Downtown Tempe is modernizing quickly and the need to preserve its few remaining historic assets is critical for it to have any authentic feel and differentiate itself from competitor mid-sized cities. Glass boxes can be found in any city. It's elements like the mill that give a city its unique charm and identity.

I would love to see the Mill renovated but the structure stay the same. Perhaps a coffee shop/wine bar be added to a deck on the top with a great view. And on the bottom they could put in a bakery and high end restaurant. Some inside/outside seats and perhaps a few trellis/shade trees and grass and pavers all around you and you should be good to go. Why not another park connecting to Tempe beach park. You can always develop it later if it doesn't work out.