DALLAS FORT WORTH | Urban + Suburban P & C

[Dariusb]

I'm glad it's moving forward and won't die like the 70+ story twin tower project that was proposed before the recession of 2008.

[llamaorama]

It still looks like vaporware. Honestly I kind of hate it, given how high commercial vacancies are the best case scenario is this would cannabalize older towers in the downtown core and maybe even lead to some demolitions or abandonment. It sprawls the CBD away from from the Main Street core and away from DART. It looks like they are going to tear down a lot of existing residential units to create a big empty lot that will take forever to fill with the different phases.

I just think Dallas is notorious for these types of developments that always end up half-complete and leave empty lots everywhere. Cityplace was never realized. Victory as originally proposed before the recession wasn't realized and is just now backfilling with more conventional development. Etc. Dallas developers always bite off more than they can chew and then nobody is surprised when they gag.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

It still looks like vaporware. Honestly I kind of hate it, given how high commercial vacancies are the best case scenario is this would cannabalize older towers in the downtown core and maybe even lead to some demolitions or abandonment. It sprawls the CBD away from from the Main Street core and away from DART. It looks like they are going to tear down a lot of existing residential units to create a big empty lot that will take forever to fill with the different phases.

I just think Dallas is notorious for these types of developments that always end up half-complete and leave empty lots everywhere. Cityplace was never realized. Victory as originally proposed before the recession wasn't realized and is just now backfilling with more conventional development. Etc. Dallas developers always bite off more than they can chew and then nobody is surprised when they gag.

What is next to this proposed development (is that a museum on the lower left?) and where is it in relation to the downtown core? I thought Dallas was trying to convert some of the downtown towers to residential, but read that some towers were still empty. Odd that downtown Dallas seems to have struggled except for the area around the basketball stadium. Downtown LA struggled for the longest but has taken off.

[R1070]

Originally Posted by DCReid

What is next to this proposed development (is that a museum on the lower left?) and where is it in relation to the downtown core? I thought Dallas was trying to convert some of the downtown towers to residential, but read that some towers were still empty. Odd that downtown Dallas seems to have struggled except for the area around the basketball stadium. Downtown LA struggled for the longest but has taken off.

That is the Perot Museum of Nature & Science. This is right next to downtown and is essentially part of the area you're referring to as around the the basketball stadium. I don't think there are any vacant buildings left in Downtown. Most if not all have been renovated and/or repurposed.

[Yuri]

Bringing here from the Downtown thread:

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

Downtown Dallas-Fort Worth




------------------------------ 2020 ------ 2010 ------ 2000 ------ 1990 ------ Growth ------ Density

Downtown Dallas -------------- 36,456 ----- 19,975 ------ 9,510 ------ 7,520 ---- 82.5% --- 110.0% --- 26.5% ------ 10.8 km² --- 3,365.6 inh./km²

CBD Dallas ---------------------- 6,514 ------ 3,712 ------ 1,920 ------ 2,841 ---- 75.5% ---- 93.3% -- -32.4% ------- 2.0 km² --- 3,310.0 inh./km²

Downtown Fort Worth -------- 11,977 ------ 6,435 ------ 6,739 ------ 6,443 ---- 86.1% ---- -4.5% ---- 4.6% ------ 11.8 km² --- 1,018.3 inh./km²

CBD Fort Worth ---------------- 6,345 ------ 3,210 -------- 857 -------- 489 ---- 97.7% --- 274.6% --- 75.3% ------- 2.0 km² --- 3,214.3 inh./km²

Dallas MSA ---------------- 7,637,387 -- 6,366,542 -- 5,156,217 -- 3,984,437 ---- 20.0% ---- 23.5% --- 29.4% -- 22,469 km²


What was a shame here for Dallas was the shape of their census tracts, not making possible to take the whole freeway loop area, which would be the best definition for their Downtown. So I came up with one strict (3 tracts), covering only half of the loop and a broader one, comprising 10 census tracts and including Uptown and Victoria Park north of loop and Cedars south. And to make Fort Worth comparable to Dallas, I also brought two definitions, one with 1 tract and the other comprising 3.

But back to the numbers, Downtown Dallas growing super fast and already reached a good density giving we're talking about a large area (almost 11 km²).

Downtown Fort Worth, on the other hand started its process only in the 2010's but they're already moving on the right direction.

And regarding the MSA, as Houston, it doesn't seem to slow. By the 2030 Census, the CSA will be quite close to the 10 million mark.

[R1070]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

It still looks like vaporware. Honestly I kind of hate it, given how high commercial vacancies are the best case scenario is this would cannabalize older towers in the downtown core and maybe even lead to some demolitions or abandonment. It sprawls the CBD away from from the Main Street core and away from DART. It looks like they are going to tear down a lot of existing residential units to create a big empty lot that will take forever to fill with the different phases.

I just think Dallas is notorious for these types of developments that always end up half-complete and leave empty lots everywhere. Cityplace was never realized. Victory as originally proposed before the recession wasn't realized and is just now backfilling with more conventional development. Etc. Dallas developers always bite off more than they can chew and then nobody is surprised when they gag.

This will affect some of the older downtown skyscrapers that don't stay up to date and relevant, but I don't think it will lead to any demolitions. The oldest buildings downtown have been renovated and/or repurposed, so it should be fine. I do agree with the housing being torn down as a negative thing, but hopefully this and other nearby projects can replace that. As for DART. The Victory station is a block away and a new station will be built with the D2 phase across the street from this development behind the Perot Museum pictured in the lower left.

[Dariusb]

Ft. Worth begins transformative Stop 6 project
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/fo...n/2743837/?amp

[dc_denizen]

Senior housing is transformative ?

[llamaorama]

Just a corny headline.

It’s mildly interesting how the Texas donut form factor of apartment is spreading to less desirable neighborhoods though. Like it used to just be associated with luxury apartments in gentrified areas now it’s appearing in low density areas and as public housing. One day this could help cities densify as they are more compact than garden style complexes.

[jkill34]

https://dallasinnovates.com/new-trio...sons-cityline/

New Trio of Towers to Reshape Skyline at Richardson’s CityLine
Dallas-based developer KDC announced plans for three glass-clad buildings that will add nearly 1.4 million square feet of space to the 204-acre city-within-a-city. The $2 billion development is home to State Farm’s regional hub and Raytheon’s state-of-the-art office complex.

[Dariusb]

Sounds like a good development.

[jkill34]

New Field Street Tower website.

https://www.fieldstreettower.com/#videoOverlay

[ILUVSAT]

Originally Posted by jkill34

New Field Street Tower website.

https://www.fieldstreettower.com/#videoOverlay

^^^Is Dallas in the Hill Country??? JK.

Love how the architecture firm input hills in Dallas' western frontier. Maybe Ft. Worth looks like Pittsburgh - with all the hills?

[weatherguru18]

With Dallas being the largest metro in Texas, even if only by a touch, why is our neighbor to the south, Houston, putting up 40 and 50 story buildings left, right and sideways and the big news here is we have ONE 38-story building going up downtown. I laughed when I saw the news lead with "Dallas is getting its tallest building since the 1980s!" Major eye roll. Certainly Dallas can support commercial office space that rivals Houston, no?

[jkill34]

Originally Posted by weatherguru18

With Dallas being the largest metro in Texas, even if only by a touch, why is our neighbor to the south, Houston, putting up 40 and 50 story buildings left, right and sideways and the big news here is we have ONE 38-story building going up downtown. I laughed when I saw the news lead with "Dallas is getting its tallest building since the 1980s!" Major eye roll. Certainly Dallas can support commercial office space that rivals Houston, no?

Not when the suburbs are killing it with headquarter moves. Frisco, Addison, Plano, McKinney, Southlake, and others are all outpacing DT Dallas for headquarter moves. Even some DT towers have been foreclosed on in the past year. What they need to do is put more residential towers rather than office space. Hopefully, that becomes better with the Farmers market living taking shape.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/business/three-downtown-dallas-high-rises-including-landmark-skyscraper-scheduled-for-july-foreclosure/2658925/#:~:text=Another%20of%20downtown%20Dallas'%20landmark,and%20sign%20up%20for%20alerts.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by weatherguru18

With Dallas being the largest metro in Texas, even if only by a touch, why is our neighbor to the south, Houston, putting up 40 and 50 story buildings left, right and sideways...

Certainly Dallas can support commercial office space that rivals Houston, no?

No. Because Dallas is not the center of the "largest metro in Texas." Dallas is the center of 2/3 of that metro. You can't just ignore Fort Worth and then wonder why Houston seems bigger than Dallas. Houston IS bigger than Dallas. How much bigger? By about a Fort Worth's worth.

[R1070]

Originally Posted by ILUVSAT

^^^Is Dallas in the Hill Country??? JK.

Love how the architecture firm input hills in Dallas' western frontier. Maybe Ft. Worth looks like Pittsburgh - with all the hills?

That part of Dallas County actually is pretty hilly. That's looking Southwest... Fort Worth would be due West and they have some hilly sections too.

[ArizonaGuy]

Does anyone have any info on the high rise that’s going up next to the Virgin Hotel in the Design District? I can’t seem to find anything on it.

[R1070]

Originally Posted by ArizonaGuy

Does anyone have any info on the high rise that’s going up next to the Virgin Hotel in the Design District? I can’t seem to find anything on it.

Urby

It's the first of two towers: https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/n...ict-tower.html

[drummer]

I kinda like that. Complements the Fountain Place towers nicely, and even though it's essentially three rectangular boxes, and least they're different heights and at slightly different angles.