How widespread are the homeless/mental health/addiction issues in your city/province?

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's often said that the insularity of the US is one of the reasons they just can't get past certain long-standing issues that most other countries seem to have resolved.

Could it be that this is yet another case where we're more like them than we think, and that this is a main cause of our sclerotic inability to tackle stuff like this?

At this juncture, Canada's inability to tackle these issues is probably even worse than the US to be honest. At least the Trump-Biden consensus has been to cap immigration so it doesn't overhelm America's capacity to house and integrate them to the detriment of local Americans.

Yet there's a sizable chunk of the Canadian electorate that's still cheerleading for more supersized human QE in the midst of the country's worst housing crisis, and the state's ability to look after its citizens further erodes.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by theman23

Ah. In fairness, it looks like those tents were there last year but were obscured by boarded-up houses (which have now been demolished for what looks to be a bus and bike lane). Weren't there in 2015 though.

This building right next door was for sale a few years ago and tempted me (I was looking to try to diversify to other cities, while not entering a new jurisdiction from the ones I already have to deal with), I'm pretty sure it would have been a decent investment.

Amusing how we have a shirtless guy on the Streetview... nice sample of the type of tenants you likely have there

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4324...l=fr&entry=ttu

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

So while I understand the pressures coming from housing, stretched public services and all the rest, I don't understand what happened over the past few years in North America that didn't happen elsewhere, where park usage policy remains essentially where it was in Canada pre-pandemic.

North America (i.e. Canada/USA) has an odd take on individual liberty and the distribution of the spoils of economic growth. Doubly so when that economic 'growth' was so concentrated in an asset class that's propping up a fair chunk of the wealth of the middle of the country, in addition to providing shelter.

So, the ugly visual of the illiberal act of removing people from the park with force is combined with an economic system that made housing extremely expensive relative to historical standards. Here we are, living with the outcome.

People in North America became very sensitive to the concept of individual liberties violated by government authority, but yet perpetuated and benefited from an economic system that essentially ended up producing this outcome. 'Markets' are invisible concepts, not organized human entities like government, so one can't really assign blame to a nebulous concept. Reform is a non-starter when one is barely keeping up with demand to people with money, much less those without.

Maybe more culturally homogeneous societies accept both a greater responsibility to protecting both their most vulnerable but with the caveat that those societies could impose their will on these people (e.g. public parks are not living spaces), not always very nicely.

[lio45]

Yeah, this is the product of the liberalism culture that we inherited from the English (even Quebec, it seems; though less than Anglo North America).

I'm curious though, does present-day England have infestations of tent cities, or are they Authoritarian (!) enough to enforce the laws re: parks and public spaces, the way Continentals would...? It's an interesting question IMO and I'd like to know the answer.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by lio45

Yeah, this is the product of the liberalism culture that we inherited from the English (even Quebec, it seems; though less than Anglo North America).

I'm curious though, does present-day England have infestations of tent cities, or are they Authoritarian (!) enough to enforce the laws re: parks and public spaces, the way Continentals would...? It's an interesting question IMO and I'd like to know the answer.

UK has a pretty brutal homeless problem as well. Leicester and Winnipeg have roughly the same urban population as well as similar homeless population, and Luton might be on the level of US cities with how bad it has gotten over there.

Of course no Canadian city has homelessnesses to the scale of London, but Toronto and Vancouver are certainly trying to catch up.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

This building right next door was for sale a few years ago and tempted me (I was looking to try to diversify to other cities, while not entering a new jurisdiction from the ones I already have to deal with), I'm pretty sure it would have been a decent investment.

Amusing how we have a shirtless guy on the Streetview... nice sample of the type of tenants you likely have there

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4324...l=fr&entry=ttu

This is actually a bit down the road from where those derelict buildings were demolished. Probably not a bad investment, as it's right on the edge of what is becoming an almost continuous row of 2-3 km of nice condos and apartments along Maisonneuve. One of the newer buildings is right next door in fact if you tilt the view to the south.

[harls]

Originally Posted by Acajack

This is actually a bit down the road from where those derelict buildings were demolished. Probably not a bad investment, as it's right on the edge of what is becoming an almost continuous row of 2-3 km of nice condos and apartments along Maisonneuve. One of the newer buildings is right next door in fact if you tilt the view to the south.

I wonder what kind of gems we could find in some Florida properties.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by Harrison

Regarding clearing encampments on public land, this court decision from Kitchener earlier this year likely has set a precedent that will make it much more difficult to force encampments off of public land, such as parks.

It's interesting seeing the follow-up on this:
https://kitchener.citynews.ca/2023/0...ent-a-concern/

The city opened up a 50-bed shelter to try and house the tent residents and it worked...for a few months. The shelter is full and more people have now moved into the tent encampment.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by harls

I wonder what kind of gems we could find in some Florida properties.

I have vision of an alligator in a green swimming pool.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by Jaws

Nor do I think that fentanyl has really hit Europe. It is the zombie apocalypse.

This summer was the first time I saw our local junkies walking around doubled over in that (what I hear of as) tranq way. There are a few places where youll see people nodding and stuff around the neighborhood but now you occasionally see someone folded over in that characteristic way.

[ConundrumNL]

Originally Posted by lio45

Yeah, this is the product of the liberalism culture that we inherited from the English (even Quebec, it seems; though less than Anglo North America).

I'm curious though, does present-day England have infestations of tent cities, or are they Authoritarian (!) enough to enforce the laws re: parks and public spaces, the way Continentals would...? It's an interesting question IMO and I'd like to know the answer.

I've watched a lot of YT videos on the origins of Neo-liberalism, liberalism, and capitalism in general. A lot of them point out that early capitalist embraced the new Protestant ideals at the beginning, so things like 'Personal Responsibility' 'the work ethic/Any work is godly work', and 'only faith will get you into heaven' probably because it allowed them to increase profits.

As time went on, those ideals became ingrained in society/culture beyond religious views.

Remember - If you not working, your sinning.

[Greetingsfromcanada]

Originally Posted by theman23

It's interesting seeing the follow-up on this:
https://kitchener.citynews.ca/2023/0...ent-a-concern/

The city opened up a 50-bed shelter to try and house the tent residents and it worked...for a few months. The shelter is full and more people have now moved into the tent encampment.

Homelessness is proportional to regional housing cost. Kitchener being so expensive, and continually rising in price, will keep creating more homeless. You can't fix homelessness without fixing rents. Like trying to seal a bullet wound with a band-aid

[Greetingsfromcanada]

Originally Posted by ConundrumNL

I've watched a lot of YT videos on the origins of Neo-liberalism, liberalism, and capitalism in general. A lot of them point out that early capitalist embraced the new Protestant ideals at the beginning, so things like 'Personal Responsibility' 'the work ethic/Any work is godly work', and 'only faith will get you into heaven' probably because it allowed them to increase profits.

As time went on, those ideals became ingrained in society/culture beyond religious views.

Remember - If you not working, your sinning.

Which are excellent ideals that produced the most developed countries on earth. But it has little bearing on actual service quality. Protestant Americans created the most barebones social safety net in the developed world. Protestant Sweden created the most giving one. Even to do this day, the Protestant swedes in America vote very Democrat compared to Dutch Protestants very republican voting. This despite both groups having been white Americans for over a century. Culture is way more sticky than basic analysis

[ConundrumNL]

Originally Posted by Greetingsfromcanada

Which are excellent ideals that produced the most developed countries on earth. But it has little bearing on actual service quality. Protestant Americans created the most barebones social safety net in the developed world. Protestant Sweden created the most giving one. Even to do this day, the Protestant swedes in America vote very Democrat compared to Dutch Protestants very republican voting. This despite both groups having been white Americans for over a century. Culture is way more sticky than basic analysis

Oh sure, there's nothing necessarily wrong with the ideals. I think the point the video creators we're trying to be make was early capitalists co-opted the ideals and engrained them into the system.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Harrison

Regarding clearing encampments on public land, this court decision from Kitchener earlier this year likely has set a precedent that will make it much more difficult to force encampments off of public land, such as parks.

Yeah, it's basically to do with issues around policing and legal decisions.

I think our society does not have the firmest grip on reality right now, was very bad around 2020-2022, and major irreversible damage was not really that far off. That was the era when people were climbing into the windows of US Capitol, Canada froze bank accounts of people who donated $20 to the truckers, the PM said maybe burning down stuff isn't so bad depending on your emotional state, maybe we don't need police anymore and they are the real criminals, etc. The US might get crazier again in 2024. A model where society is 20% more psychotic might be more intuitive than trying to look at the logic behind various positions.

The escalation in homelessness is real but doesn't explain why the tents are allowed in central city square when they could be and historically were in other areas like the woods or highway underpasses and the like. It also doesn't explain why so many municipal politicians "flipped" from opposing things like trailers to accepting tents anywhere. Often perverse policy happens because we say there should be a certain standard and we can't meet the standard so people get nothing. To make matters worse the standards police cause a bandwagon effect and attract support for the wrong reasons.

The very reasonable response is to (1) try to house people as much as possible and open emergency tenting sites (ideally bring in trailers) but, (2) maintain limits on where they are allowed to camp. And those areas need basic services like policing, primarily for the safety of the residents.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by theman23

The city opened up a 50-bed shelter to try and house the tent residents and it worked...for a few months. The shelter is full and more people have now moved into the tent encampment.

That cycle has happened in Vancouver over and over.

[SpongeG]

The people who live in the tents often or always say the same thing, they don't like having to live under rules, they want their freedom to come and go to live how they want etc, and prefer living in a tent.

There is some kind of housing in Surrey on 104th next to Superstore, It serves people in need of housing, mainly singles by the looks of it, the door has been broken for months now. Outside behind it people have set up some kind of encampment and you can usually see them doing what they do ie using drugs, It is right next to a sports park where kids and families and teams, etc. play.

They also set up and hang out all the time on the lawn in front of some kind of building I think its either social housing or support type office next door with all their shopping carts, etc., and huddled over doing their drugs. They will also sometimes do things on the superstore property but security seems to move them along as best they can.

It's bizarre that it goes on but they must be allowed to live how they want to apparently.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Greetingsfromcanada

Homelessness is proportional to regional housing cost. Kitchener being so expensive, and continually rising in price, will keep creating more homeless. You can't fix homelessness without fixing rents. Like trying to seal a bullet wound with a band-aid

While I do agree that the high cost of housing does lead to more homlessness there is still lots of homelessness in less costly places such as where I live (Timmins) and other smaller Northern Ontario towns. Another factor is a shortage of housing but even then many of these addicts aren't wanting to pay for housing.

As far as seeing zombies here, there are quite a few of them. There is so much frustration and anger here that people are taking photos and videos and posting them online on social media stating their names.

[Architype]

B.C. bringing in ban on drug use in public spaces

B.C. will be banning the use of illicit drugs in parks and on beaches, as well as near doorways and bus stops.

Premier David Eby and Public Safety Minister Mike Farnworth announced the legislation Thursday. The Restricting Public Consumption of Illegal Substances Act, when passed, will limit where drugs can be consumed while their possession remains decriminalized.

Using drugs will be prohibited within a six-metre radius of building entrances, including businesses and residential buildings; within six metres of a bus stop; at parks, beaches, and sports fields; and within 15 metres of playgrounds, spray and wading pools, and skate parks.

"If passed, the legislation will allow police officers to ask a person using drugs in any of these places to cease the activity and leave the area for another appropriate area, such as an overdose prevention or supervised consumption site," an announcement from the province says.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-bringing-i...aces-1.6590154

This raises obvious questions of enforcement, and severity and effectiveness of penalty.

[Metro-One]

OMG, an obvious but nonetheless good idea? I hope it is enforced to the fullest. I support providing addicts with free clean drugs, but they should only be consumed in supervised facilities. You know, compromise? Meet society half way?