Ugly Canada 2 (Only architecture, planning and design faux pas)

[jamincan]

I think calling Sudbury 'Mordor' is a bit of an exaggeration these days. That's not to say that the mining hasn't left very visible scars, but it's not the bare, moonscape of 50 years ago anymore. The forest and vegetation has returned and lakes are recovering. The tighter emissions controls really did make a difference.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by jamincan

I think calling Sudbury 'Mordor' is a bit of an exaggeration these days. That's not to say that the mining hasn't left very visible scars, but it's not the bare, moonscape of 50 years ago anymore. The forest and vegetation has returned and lakes are recovering. The tighter emissions controls really did make a difference.

On that July day that's how my Western approach to Sudbury was.

I never said THE ENTIRE city of Sudbury was Mordor, just seeing the super smokestack and landscape from kilometres away it appeared to me that way

_____________________________
When the Superstack is demolished it will be a clear visual that air pollution in Sudbury is improving dramatically.

In Niagara, Inco (now Vale) the little sister plant to Sudbury (if you will)
had a 150m smokestack in Port Colborne. It was demolished around 1984 (if I'm not mistaken), and the air has been much cleaner since.

[Wigs]

thewave46,

Thanks for your input.
What is, in your opinion, the overall best city in Northern Ontario?

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Wigs

thewave46,

Thanks for your input.
What is, in your opinion, the overall best city in Northern Ontario?

You're welcome.

The "Best"?

As they say: It depends on what one likes and is into.

I have a soft spot for North Bay. It's the most 'southern'-feeling of the cities, and plenty of fond memories of my time there. It felt like it had a centre and was a cohesive thing. Large enough to be livable, small enough to feel small-town. It was also a happy time in my life.

But if one likes the more 'northern' vibes but decent amenities, Sudbury. Somewhere on Anglo/Franco semi-blending of the Solitudes, but of the backwoods. I'd label the culture as cashed-up blue-collar redneck meets fusty low-level federal bureaucrat. It's....distinctive. You can choose your poison I suppose, if one lives there.

Timmins offers the real Northern experience. Half-Anglo, Half-Franco, a mining town to its core, despite being larger. Definitely anti-big city.

Can't say much about the Sault, so I'll defer making judgment on that.

If you don't mind being far away, Thunder Bay has a similar vibe to Sudbury in culture without the language thing, but is somewhat less disjointed.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Wigs

On that July day that's how my Western approach to Sudbury was.

I never said THE ENTIRE city of Sudbury was Mordor, just seeing the super smokestack and landscape from kilometres away it appeared to me that way

_____________________________
When the Superstack is demolished it will be a clear visual that air pollution in Sudbury is improving dramatically.

In Niagara, Inco (now Vale) the little sister plant to Sudbury (if you will)
had a 150m smokestack in Port Colborne. It was demolished around 1984 (if I'm not mistaken), and the air has been much cleaner since.

My wife is originally from NE Ontario, and about 25 years ago I found myself in Sudbury with some time to kill, so I spent much of the day simply driving around the area.

At one point I found myself in the most freakish moonscape I'd ever seen. It was very eerie. I remember thinking: OK so this is where the astronauts trained and where they made those movies.

This was before the GPS era and I didn't know and can't recall where it was exactly though it was definitely north of the city core, maybe somewhere in the vicinity of Highway 144 that goes up to Timmins.

I've never been able to find it again either on subsequent visits or Streetview.

Though I do know that Sudbury has invested a lot in re-greening these types of areas since then so it could be lightly forested at this point.

[jamincan]

Originally Posted by Wigs

When the Superstack is demolished it will be a clear visual that air pollution in Sudbury is improving dramatically.

The irony is that the Superstack is a large part of why the local environment has been able to recover as much as it has.

[niwell]

Calling North Bay "Northern" is a good argument starter in the North - particularly if you're in the NW!

Sudbury isn't a pretty city, though it does have a few pockets of nicer buildings. In my extensive work travels around Northern Ontario (admittedly coming up on 4 years ago now) I found it generally does have a lot more going on than other centres and a fairly active arts scene. Surprising number of decent restaurants and bars. It was the only place I decided to stay an extra night to go out for drinks on my own dime, so there's that! Thunder Bay was slightly less disjointed but really suffered from the attempt to shove everything into strip malls between the two old city centres.

Sault Ste. Marie is the prettiest (relative) but the downtown suffers in functionality from the big mall along the waterfront. Food was quite good but felt a bit more old-style than Sudbury - nothing wrong with that and probably stems from the big Italian population there.

Timmins is the only place it was a struggle to find decent non-chain options, even compared to places a fraction the size. The whole city kinda looks like the Earlscourt/Caledonia/Weston Rd part of Toronto, interestingly enough.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by niwell

Calling North Bay "Northern" is a good argument starter in the North - particularly if you're in the NW!

I moved to Canada from the UK near the tail end of high school and we moved to Toronto. I recall in high school geography class (grade 13) the teacher asked the class, 'where does the north start in Canada'. One kid, with a straight face said 'Steeles Avenue'. Many nodded in agreement. Keep in mind at times not far north of Steeles in places were farms and non developed lands.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

I moved to Canada from the UK near the tail end of high school and we moved to Toronto. I recall in high school geography class (grade 13) the teacher asked the class, 'where does the north start in Canada'. One kid, with a straight face said 'Steeles Avenue'. Many nodded in agreement. Keep in mind at times not far north of Steeles in places were farms and non developed lands.

LOL, I can only guess where they'd place the Eastern limit. Scarborough? Or... Oshawa?

[O-tacular]

Is Fort Mac further north than Sudbury? The oilsands in AB is probably as ugly or worse.

[niwell]

Calgary is considerably further North than Sudbury! For the most part, the populated parts of Northern Ontario aren't really North at all. Going East you enter Northern Ontario from Southern Manitoba.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Is Fort Mac further north than Sudbury? The oilsands in AB is probably as ugly or worse.

Sudbury is actually well south of... Vancouver.

[jamincan]

Originally Posted by niwell

Sudbury isn't a pretty city, though it does have a few pockets of nicer buildings. In my extensive work travels around Northern Ontario (admittedly coming up on 4 years ago now) I found it generally does have a lot more going on than other centres and a fairly active arts scene. Surprising number of decent restaurants and bars. It was the only place I decided to stay an extra night to go out for drinks on my own dime, so there's that!

The Townehouse is legitimately one of my favourite bars ever, anywhere, but some of that might be coloured by time.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by niwell

Calling North Bay "Northern" is a good argument starter in the North - particularly if you're in the NW!

Sudbury isn't a pretty city, though it does have a few pockets of nicer buildings. In my extensive work travels around Northern Ontario (admittedly coming up on 4 years ago now) I found it generally does have a lot more going on than other centres and a fairly active arts scene. Surprising number of decent restaurants and bars. It was the only place I decided to stay an extra night to go out for drinks on my own dime, so there's that! .

I definitely agree about Sudbury. It's a pretty decent smallish city for the amount of "stuff" it has. In spite of what it looks like.

I'd add that for francophones specifically it's got an appreciable amount of stuff as well. As (franco) Ontario cities go, it's far behind Ottawa (especially when you factor in Gatineau across the river) but it is easily equal with the much larger Toronto. If forced to choose on this front only, I might actually choose Sudbury as you get a better sense of community too.

It actually reminds me of Moncton a bit though the francophone community in Moncton is more cohesive and dynamic, and less assimilated.

[megadude]

My cousins lived on the Markham side of Steeles, two houses in. On the Scarboro/Toronto side was an empty farm for the longest time until it was redeveloped into a Walmart, etc. Anything east of that point on Steeles/Taunton was rural at the time and mostly still is, but like suburban rural.

Anyway, my cousin did bit parts in shows like Street Legal, ENG, Nickolodeon stuff and was on the giant poster for Gerard Square mall. She also did a music video with a singer named Tariq, for a song called Chevrolet Way. By total coincidence, they happened to film at the above mentioned farmland across the street from her house. She played the guy's girlfriend despite her being 15 at the time.

[megadude]

Sure is ugly, but cool at the same time. Wonder if it was just a fun project that wasn't serious at all.

My FIL made this set of stairs at the cottage going down to the creek. Don't have a pic of the finished product but it has steps and railings. The railings are long, thick branches. The steps were quite useful as trying to make your way down or up could be hazardous when drunk. He's long since retired so he had nothing better to do. He goes to the beach there like once a year. He spends half his time just cleaning up and organizing things and just getting his hands dirty in general.

I said were useful because it is completely falling apart now after four years of exposure. Same will happen to that one I'm sure. Not as quickly though, if it's treated/sealed every year.

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Everybody sitting down?



They turned their bungalow into a tilt

[stefanYEG]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Is Fort Mac further north than Sudbury? The oilsands in AB is probably as ugly or worse.

The urban fabric of Ft. McMurray leaves a lot to be desired, but the actual natural setting of that city is beautiful. Set deep in the Athabasca river valley with cliffs and hills rolling and rising above you in every direction. I've been there a few times and am always surprised at how nice it is.

Now if you were only specifically talking about the actual oilsands outside the city, that's obviously a completely different beast.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

My wife is originally from NE Ontario, and about 25 years ago I found myself in Sudbury with some time to kill, so I spent much of the day simply driving around the area.

At one point I found myself in the most freakish moonscape I'd ever seen. It was very eerie. I remember thinking: OK so this is where the astronauts trained and where they made those movies.

This was before the GPS era and I didn't know and can't recall where it was exactly though it was definitely north of the city core, maybe somewhere in the vicinity of Highway 144 that goes up to Timmins.

I've never been able to find it again either on subsequent visits or Streetview.

Though I do know that Sudbury has invested a lot in re-greening these types of areas since then so it could be lightly forested at this point.

My guess is that is was along Lasalle Blvd past Collège Boréal and then you went North on Regional Road 35 towards Azilda which eventually connects with Hwy 144 in Chelmsford.

That was probably the last area to green up somewhat as of more recently. It really had a moonscape look 25 years ago. Even today, you can't not notice all of the mining activity and tailings but it definitely has changed in terms of there being trees.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by niwell

Calling North Bay "Northern" is a good argument starter in the North - particularly if you're in the NW!

Sudbury isn't a pretty city, though it does have a few pockets of nicer buildings. In my extensive work travels around Northern Ontario (admittedly coming up on 4 years ago now) I found it generally does have a lot more going on than other centres and a fairly active arts scene. Surprising number of decent restaurants and bars. It was the only place I decided to stay an extra night to go out for drinks on my own dime, so there's that! Thunder Bay was slightly less disjointed but really suffered from the attempt to shove everything into strip malls between the two old city centres.

Sault Ste. Marie is the prettiest (relative) but the downtown suffers in functionality from the big mall along the waterfront. Food was quite good but felt a bit more old-style than Sudbury - nothing wrong with that and probably stems from the big Italian population there.

Timmins is the only place it was a struggle to find decent non-chain options, even compared to places a fraction the size. The whole city kinda looks like the Earlscourt/Caledonia/Weston Rd part of Toronto, interestingly enough.

Your views of Northern Ontario cities are pretty accurate. But I've never heard anybody compare Timmins to any part of Toronto. I'll have to check out those T.O. neighbourhoods to see any similarities. Timmins has always had a mining town mentality so even though we have lots of land, houses are smaller than other places on average and built closer together. Sort of a thought that this place won't be here for long which is quite ridiculous in my opinion. I live on a street where the houses were built in the 1980s yet the houses beside mine on each side are only about 8 feet apart. The older part of Timmins, basically the streets with the tree names, have houses very close together and many don't have yards. So you can live like you're in a big city house-wise yet we only have 42,000 people.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

My guess is that is was along Lasalle Blvd past Collège Boréal and then you went North on Regional Road 35 towards Azilda which eventually connects with Hwy 144 in Chelmsford.

That was probably the last area to green up somewhat as of more recently. It really had a moonscape look 25 years ago. Even today, you can't not notice all of the mining activity and tailings but it definitely has changed in terms of there being trees.

Someone who knows what they're talking about!

I think this may have been it.

From what I recall it was definitely an area with a large francophone presence based on the surnames on the businesses (stuff like Lapointe's Grocery, Dupont Construction, etc.) so Azilda and Chelmsford would fit the bill.

It was also in the spring IIRC so after the snow was gone but before the leaves were out. This definitely made it appear more bleak as well.