Tempe Development Thread

[Arquitect]

Originally Posted by phoenixwillrise

Speaking of Marina Heights the rebar they use on that project ,looking at it from the construction camera, sure looks very minimal. I get it that it is to code but they better hope they never have a serious earthquake in Phoenix or that thing is coming down like a stack of cards and for that matter any concrete building that is built to the same code. Then again it's no where near as bad as I have seen in Fiji ,in my water filter trips there, where it looks like they are using coat hangers for rebar.

Most of the load is carried by an over-engineered system of post-tension cables in the slab. A 8.0 earthquake could hit Tempe, and the building would still be standing up.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

With HFL III ready to go vertical and Marina Heights about 5 floors from topping out, what projects do you most want to see break ground next?

For me I'd say 1) USAplace (hoping for Dec) and 2) Hotel at HFL (name is escaping me ATM) 3) Street Car

The hotel is AC by Marriott; I'd like to see 1) whether HFL is truly mixed use, as recent articles have expressed, 2) see the Chinese deal go through and make its way through permitting in a way that makes a groundbreaking next year seem realistic - could turn Tempe into a World class city overnight, 3) whether the lot at Ash/University will build and whether they're truly topping out under 100' - the fact that no market rate residential towers exist downtown (W6 is a glorified VUE) is a problem with the amount of business/commercial coming on board... wasted opportunity to capture a huge market share and turn them into loyal Tempe residents.

I'd be excited by the AC Marriott but hate that its turning its back completely on Rio, like the entire HFL development. I know it's tricky to figure out how to address both the lake and street, but that's what designers and developers get paid to do - make solutions out of challenges. I've never been inside the HFL grounds, and likely never will, as there is nothing inviting about the way it presents itself to the street and Mill pedestrians. I hope MH is more successful, otherwise a streetcar is almost a waste all around given the inward, garage-focused nature of the projects.

Lastly, I'd like to see the small project on the north shore get built; "town lake residential" was the name, and it was 5-6 stories due to the power lines, but it was a great example of how creative developers can get with their sites and I appreciate the thought that went into the design, with live/work and retail fronting the Marina with the goal of attracting related business. It's also a horribly complicated piece of land and if this doesn't pan out, it'll definitely be a while before we see another proposal. The whole north shore in general, has been slow to pick up any momentum, which is a shame.

[phoenixwillrise]

Originally Posted by Arquitect

Most of the load is carried by an over-engineered system of post-tension cables in the slab. A 8.0 earthquake could hit Tempe, and the building would still be standing up.

good to know.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by phoenixwillrise

good to know.

Earthquake in Phoenix

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

The hotel is AC by Marriott; I'd like to see 1) whether HFL is truly mixed use, as recent articles have expressed, 2) see the Chinese deal go through and make its way through permitting in a way that makes a groundbreaking next year seem realistic - could turn Tempe into a World class city overnight, 3) whether the lot at Ash/University will build and whether they're truly topping out under 100' - the fact that no market rate residential towers exist downtown (W6 is a glorified VUE) is a problem with the amount of business/commercial coming on board... wasted opportunity to capture a huge market share and turn them into loyal Tempe residents.

I'd be excited by the AC Marriott but hate that its turning its back completely on Rio, like the entire HFL development. I know it's tricky to figure out how to address both the lake and street, but that's what designers and developers get paid to do - make solutions out of challenges. I've never been inside the HFL grounds, and likely never will, as there is nothing inviting about the way it presents itself to the street and Mill pedestrians. I hope MH is more successful, otherwise a streetcar is almost a waste all around given the inward, garage-focused nature of the projects.

Lastly, I'd like to see the small project on the north shore get built; "town lake residential" was the name, and it was 5-6 stories due to the power lines, but it was a great example of how creative developers can get with their sites and I appreciate the thought that went into the design, with live/work and retail fronting the Marina with the goal of attracting related business. It's also a horribly complicated piece of land and if this doesn't pan out, it'll definitely be a while before we see another proposal. The whole north shore in general, has been slow to pick up any momentum, which is a shame.

I am still having trouble getting my head around the Pier 202 development. The press release makes it sounds massive, but one 20-story and one 18-story building doesn't sound so massive to me, like a game changer. Don't get me wrong, it'd be wonderful, but I don't know if it's World Class or along the lines of the other financial hubs that were referenced in the article.

I think Rio has struggled with retail because of A Mountain on the other side of the street. It really creates a dead zone and quite a walk from Mill. I think most people avoid walking that way, and development can really only occur on the North Side of Rio. I would like to see in the future some sort of development in lot 59 across from Marina Heights. I'm not sure if ASU is willing to trade the tailgating spaces though.

Good point on the north side development, that would be a great project as well that puts some pressure on the holdouts with the horse property, which could be developed into something taller, although I believe it'd be severely limited by the flight path in that location, so I'm not sure it could go above 8 stories or so.

[rocksteady]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Earthquake in Phoenix

The folks in Oklahoma probably once laughed like you did. Never underestimate mother nature and where she can strike.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

I am still having trouble getting my head around the Pier 202 development. The press release makes it sounds massive, but one 20-story and one 18-story building doesn't sound so massive to me, like a game changer. Don't get me wrong, it'd be wonderful, but I don't know if it's World Class or along the lines of the other financial hubs that were referenced in the article.

I think Rio has struggled with retail because of A Mountain on the other side of the street. It really creates a dead zone and quite a walk from Mill. I think most people avoid walking that way, and development can really only occur on the North Side of Rio. I would like to see in the future some sort of development in lot 59 across from Marina Heights. I'm not sure if ASU is willing to trade the tailgating spaces though.

Good point on the north side development, that would be a great project as well that puts some pressure on the holdouts with the horse property, which could be developed into something taller, although I believe it'd be severely limited by the flight path in that location, so I'm not sure it could go above 8 stories or so.

I believe the 18 and 20-story buildings are just phase I of the project (a HQ and residential, correct?); there would eventually be more trade buildings, residential, hotel, etc. I don't understand the whole thing, either, but it sounds like a much larger project and by World Class, I mean... making more it more than a college town. Phoenix has completely flatlined in terms of bringing in new investment downtown when it comes to jobs. It put all its eggs in the biomedical bucket that has generated far less economically than originally imagined.

I think A mountain is kind of a cop-out for excusing the lack of activity along Rio Salado. HFL should've served as a Gateway between Mill and the waterfront and right now, it's more of a wall. Again, I have never walked to the waterfront - that shouldn't be the case. I should be lured to the edge of downtown to experience the city's focal point through retail and restaurant uses. Lining the street is probably not feasible, but the corner could have certainly been designed as a much more inviting entrance. If the Mill gets developed eventually, there will be little space between the Mill Ave activity and the current south lot 59 lots - in other words, the mountain isn't as large of a deterrent when you think of the Mill and Lot 59 South being built out. They're also investing in a streetcar along this corridor... if all development is inward-facing, it isn't going to be very sucessful.

For the hotel, even something as simple as a lobby that stretched from N-S with the main entrance/dropoff being inside HFL and a nice pedestrian entrance on Rio would've been just fine. But, purely throwing back-of-house elements is a shame, especially adjacent to that heinous garage.

On the north side, I believe the lot I am talking about is the horseback riding property. Here is a link to the image: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-J8ipIaZtwjY/Ux...1U/s1600/tempe+lakeside+vicinity+map.png

The property that has long been stalled is the one that actually fronts Rural. That parcel could handle large towers, but has seen little movement.

[Jjs5056]

I forgot to mention that I also hope to see The Lofts at Hayden Ferry developed between Marina Heights and HFL; yes, it's way too short for the space, but a luxury rental component would be a big win for this stretch. It's also another one of those properties where I can't imagine a project being built if this falls through being sandwiched between the two mega-projects.

[mdpx]

Originally Posted by rocksteady

The folks in Oklahoma probably once laughed like you did. Never underestimate mother nature and where she can strike.

Mother Nature has nothing to do with the earthquakes in Oklahoma. It's Corporate Nature and fraking that is causing it. All mother nature can do is react to it.

[rocksteady]

Originally Posted by mdpx

Mother Nature has nothing to do with the earthquakes in Oklahoma. It's Corporate Nature and fraking that is causing it. All mother nature can do is react to it.

Okay, Washington DC would have been a better example.

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

I forgot to mention that I also hope to see The Lofts at Hayden Ferry developed between Marina Heights and HFL; yes, it's way too short for the space, but a luxury rental component would be a big win for this stretch. It's also another one of those properties where I can't imagine a project being built if this falls through being sandwiched between the two mega-projects.

I don't know, I think someone would find that lot attractive, but it does look like the foundation work required could be a detriment as I'm sure the price tag is ungodly.

8 story apartments would've been just great there. Is it 4 or 6 we are (hopefully) settling for? I cannot recall...

[ASUSunDevil]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

I forgot to mention that I also hope to see The Lofts at Hayden Ferry developed between Marina Heights and HFL; yes, it's way too short for the space, but a luxury rental component would be a big win for this stretch. It's also another one of those properties where I can't imagine a project being built if this falls through being sandwiched between the two mega-projects.

Drove past today and saw a new white construction sign that said Hayden Ferry Lofts in bold black letters. Looks like this project will get going very soon.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

I don't know, I think someone would find that lot attractive, but it does look like the foundation work required could be a detriment as I'm sure the price tag is ungodly.

8 story apartments would've been just great there. Is it 4 or 6 we are (hopefully) settling for? I cannot recall...

4. http://www.olivermcmillan.com/places/projects/14/the_lofts_at_hayden_ferry.html

Agreed that 8 would've been great there. 8 would've been great at Argo and Hanover, too.

[Spitfiredude]

Speaking of those lofts, I drove past today to see they have posted a Maricopa air quality sign and other construction signs. Looks like this development is getting under way at last. Yes, a tad taller would have been nice. I don't like the idea of anything taller than 100' because it would stick out like a thumb among the rest, but whatever. Well this leaves one last parcel (Packard-Rural Rd) to be developed along south lake in between Ash/Rural. Honestly, I can see a hotel/residential/entertainment component at this spot. As soon as the Marina Heights development is finished, I'm sure this will be immediately developed. I like the idea of an amusement/water park/casino along the lake haha. This would be perfect lol. Obviously the casino could practically never happen.

[phoenixwillrise]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Earthquake in Phoenix

They use to laugh about earthquakes in Oklahoma ask them how that is
working for them now?

[Phxguy]

^ The New Madrid intraplate earthquakes of 1811-1812 were the largest in the U.S outside of the Alaskan Good Friday in 1964. And it's not even on a fault line! Safe to say but not to be a doomsdayer, with that 5.5 near Tucson a few months back, Phoenix can see seismic activity, although anything above a 7.0 is only something in Hollywood. Reminds me of that 70s film, Fire in the Sky, where a comet destroys Phoenix and the Hyatt crumbles in the earthquake.


Back to development news, in the photos it looks as though the ground floor will have a walkway lined with shops leading through the complex to the lake. Has retail been confirmed with this project? If so then this a great way to connect to to the waterfront.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by Phxguy

^ The New Madrid intraplate earthquakes of 1811-1812 were the largest in the U.S outside of the Alaskan Good Friday in 1964. And it's not even on a fault line! Safe to say but not to be a doomsdayer, with that 5.5 near Tucson a few months back, Phoenix can see seismic activity, although anything above a 7.0 is only something in Hollywood. Reminds me of that 70s film, Fire in the Sky, where a comet destroys Phoenix and the Hyatt crumbles in the earthquake.


Back to development news, in the photos it looks as though the ground floor will have a walkway lined with shops leading through the complex to the lake. Has retail been confirmed with this project? If so then this a great way to connect to to the waterfront.

This has not been confirmed - all news references a single-use, retail project. I wouldn't be surprised if those are simply overexaggerated renderings of what are actually just the clubhouse, fitness center and leasing office.

I'd love to be wrong, though. Definitely what I meant when I said these projects need to draw pedestrians through better.

As far as Rural/University, I think I'd wait to see what becomes of the immediate ASU District parcels like Packard and Karsten. However, something like an Arizona Sports Museum or destination/attraction would be great for the area and make a streetcar more sensible than just connecting master-planned offices.

If streetcar does run down Rio, this might be a place for a transit center to connect to the future BRT that will run down Rural from Chandler-Scottsdale. In fact, for now, that's my preferred use: a mixed-use transit center that links streetcar line A (current line down to Riverview) with line B (south on Rural-west on McDowell, south on Galvin to Broadway/Fountainhead) and BRT. Arizona Sports Museum and sports bar could fill the retail space, with the Stadium District HQ and boutique hotel above for a decent-sized tower.

One day, I'd love to see the remaining Pier 202 land developed with real, lake-fronting retail allowing for boat rides between the residential development (including an Onyx-like tower) and there. I don't see why a water park wouldn't work - these developments will all be inward-facing and turn their back on Rio, so it's not like it'd have to be planned very urbanly.

[rocksteady]

Originally Posted by Spitfiredude

Speaking of those lofts, I drove past today to see they have posted a Maricopa air quality sign and other construction signs. Looks like this development is getting under way at last. Yes, a tad taller would have been nice. I don't like the idea of anything taller than 100' because it would stick out like a thumb among the rest, but whatever. Well this leaves one last parcel (Packard-Rural Rd) to be developed along south lake in between Ash/Rural. Honestly, I can see a hotel/residential/entertainment component at this spot. As soon as the Marina Heights development is finished, I'm sure this will be immediately developed. I like the idea of an amusement/water park/casino along the lake haha. This would be perfect lol. Obviously the casino could practically never happen.

I would love some sort of "attraction" along the lake. Would love to see it lined with floating bars, restaurants, etc.

Do you all remember that massive, upscale waterpark/resort that was supposed to be built nearby before the recession with diving, snorkling, rafting, indoor wave pool, resort, villas? This would be a perfect "attraction" for the area, unfortunately I don't think there is room left on the south shore anymore. http://www.waveyard.com/

edit: Waveyard's original site rests at the southeast corner of the Loops 101 & 202 interchange. Waveyard will be in close proximity to the Mesa Riverview retail development, Phoenix's Sky Harbor airport and Arizona State University (ASU). Waveyard's main entrance will also sit door to door with Bass Pro Shop's newest location, which is scheduled to open this May.

[Leo the Dog]

I remember this and was excited about it. Waveyard was a big deal. Mesa beat out Surprise in landing the deal. Mesa was chosen because of its close proximity to sky harbor and close to Scottsdale resorts. Cubs new spring training facility now sits on the site.

[Classical in Phoenix]

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