Highways in Canada

[Corndogger]

Looks very impressive. Are they still on schedule to open later this year?

***Never mind. I just watched the video and they are on schedule to open October 1. Longest ramps in the country! Take that Manitoba with your Interstate-standard highways. ;-)

[srperrycgy]

Driving NW through Calgary on Crowchild Trail and heading out of the city to the town of Cochrane (Don't tell O-tacular) on Alberta Highway 1A. Enjoy.

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[swimmer_spe]

Has the bridge near Nipigon been fixed, or is it still 1 lane?

[SignalHillHiker]

Three pictures of Pitts Memorial Drive, which runs from Downtown St. John's to the Trans Canada Highway and then continues on to Conception Bay South.

All three pictures were taken with my feet in the same place.

First, face southwest, overlooking the West End of St. John's with Mount Pearl on the horizon:

Pitts Memorial Drive by R C, on Flickr

Now facing northeast, toward Downtown:

Pitts Memorial Drive by R C, on Flickr

And zoomed in on the section that becomes New Gower Street once it reaches the ground.

Pitts Memorial Drive by R C, on Flickr

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by srperrycgy

Driving NW through Calgary on Crowchild Trail and heading out of the city to the town of Cochrane (Don't tell O-tacular) on Alberta Highway 1A. Enjoy.

At the beginning of your video you say it was filmed on June 7 but later on you say it was a Saturday. Was it actually filmed on May 7? Hard to tell by the weather as June 7 was such a nice hot day and would matchup perfectly with what you filmed. As for the video itself, damn they need to build some more interchanges to get rid of those lights starting with the one right at the edge of Calgary. Cochrane looks great as usual. It's no Okotoks but then what place is?!

[srperrycgy]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

At the beginning of your video you say it was filmed on June 7 but later on you say it was a Saturday. Was it actually filmed on May 7? Hard to tell by the weather as June 7 was such a nice hot day and would matchup perfectly with what you filmed. As for the video itself, damn they need to build some more interchanges to get rid of those lights starting with the one right at the edge of Calgary. Cochrane looks great as usual. It's no Okotoks but then what place is?!

Damn. I goofed that. It was last Saturday, the 4th.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Looks very impressive. Are they still on schedule to open later this year?

***Never mind. I just watched the video and they are on schedule to open October 1. Longest ramps in the country! Take that Manitoba with your Interstate-standard highways. ;-)

I'm curious about any renders about the project?

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by scryer

I'm curious about any renders about the project?

Here's a couple of virtual videos.

Northeast Anthony Henday Drive Concept

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Digital rendering of the future NE Anthony Henday Drive

• Video Link

[hipster duck]

I had a chance to putt around Edmonton in my rental car last month. The freeway system is extremely well-developed - although I come from BC, so that's not hard.

I got the sense that there's almost a 2nd ring road in the embryonic stages of development, given the four lane sections of Hwy 60 to Devon and Hwy 21 from Sherwood Park to Fort Saskatchewan. Is this something that's on the books?

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I had a chance to putt around Edmonton in my rental car last month. The freeway system is extremely well-developed - although I come from BC, so that's not hard.

I got the sense that there's almost a 2nd ring road in the embryonic stages of development, given the four lane sections of Hwy 60 to Devon and Hwy 21 from Sherwood Park to Fort Saskatchewan. Is this something that's on the books?

I know the province is working on very long-term plans for a 2nd ring for Calgary (50 years out?) so I wouldn't be surprised if the same isn't happening for Edmonton.

After this project is done the next big one will be to finish the #201 in Calgary. The last phases of that project should be very impressive.

I agree with your comment about Edmonton's system, it is well-developed. Vancouver better wake up and realize you need freeways to efficiently move people and goods to stay competitive. Goods being shipped to Asia can easily find other ports that are more efficient and thus less costly to use. When are the next municipal elections in BC?

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

I know the province is working on very long-term plans for a 2nd ring for Calgary (50 years out?) so I wouldn't be surprised if the same isn't happening for Edmonton.

After this project is done the next big one will be to finish the #201 in Calgary. The last phases of that project should be very impressive.

I agree with your comment about Edmonton's system, it is well-developed. Vancouver better wake up and realize you need freeways to efficiently move people and goods to stay competitive. Goods being shipped to Asia can easily find other ports that are more efficient and thus less costly to use. When are the next municipal elections in BC?

Vancouver is located at the western end of the country, surrounded by mountains and water. Not an ideal place to build a highway system. Downtown Vancouver is not easily reachable, compared to Calgary, Montréal or even Toronto.

You can't compare Vancouver's system with the one in Montréal.

[ssiguy]

Most of the Fraser Valley is as flat as a rock. The reason Vancouver has a lousy road network has nothing to do with terrain and everything to do with poor planning.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

Vancouver is located at the western end of the country, surrounded by mountains and water. Not an ideal place to build a highway system. Downtown Vancouver is not easily reachable, compared to Calgary, Montréal or even Toronto.

You can't compare Vancouver's system with the one in Montréal.

Okay, I'll compare it to the one in Seattle. What does where Vancouver is located or its geography have to do with its road system? They had plans back in the 60s/70s to build a huge freeway network but NIMBYs killed the plan and Vancouver's transportation network has suffered ever since. Have you driven there lately? What a disaster! If the city's goal is to not have traffic move they have succeeded.

[Marshal]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Okay, I'll compare it to the one in Seattle. What does where Vancouver is located or its geography have to do with its road system? They had plans back in the 60s/70s to build a huge freeway network but NIMBYs killed the plan and Vancouver's transportation network has suffered ever since. Have you driven there lately? What a disaster! If the city's goal is to not have traffic move they have succeeded.

Comparing Vancouver to Seattle is as meaningful as comparing Calgary to a road crazed city in Oklahoma or Texas. The differences are due to a very large complex of economic, geographical, cultural, historical, etc. circumstances unique to each place. Local planning is significant but hardly explains the result.

That 60's freeway system was not killed by nimbys, but by a shift in priorities which was Canada wide. That's why Toronto was saved from the Scarborough and Spadina Expressways, why Edmonton and Calgary did not have their downtowns paved over and chocked by rings of pavement, and so on. Vancouver's rejection of those plans resulted in the healthy inner city it has today. You talk as if it was a missed opportunity. We are not missing that waterfront expressway (nor are we spending billions trying to remove it like Seattle is.) Nor is the downtown suffering because there is no freeway along Davie and Denman streets (albeit partially tunneled) with the miriad of ramps and land eating accessories (nor are we struggling with how to repair the wound of a downtown section of I5, again like Seattle is).

The technical differences between the geographies of Seattle and Vancouver are great. Vancouver requires many more expensive bridge/tunnel links (we have rivers here), the Fraser delta presents unique and expensive challenges (poor structural support, water table issues, all sorts of soil mixes to contend with), the mountain sides are part of the city (Seattle has no mountains at all near its built up areas), and Vancouver's geography places barriers around the city in a much more restrictive manner than in Seattle. In fact, there is not very much that is meaningfully shared by the two.

I have lived in both. You seem to 'know' Vancouver traffic, but I drive it and if you think our rush is bad, go to Seattle and see what its like getting around on its fabulous network: there's the hell of the I5, the multi lane parking lot of the alternative 405, or you could enjoy the floating bridge nightmares. I90: not good, etc. Or you could compare: the 7 km lineup to the Massey Tunnel - the 28 km lineup to get from Everett to the I5-405 interchange. Enough. Seattle has some big ass roads. Its traffic is easily as hellish as Vancouver's. Actually, way more hellish.

So, yes, I have driven there lately. Its not a disaster, its big city traffic. Don't be stupid and presume that the traffic hells of one big city are at all easily compared to those of another. Calgary is lucky. Its still little, it has a lot of easy to build on land, and has but one geographic barrier. Enjoy the scale of your traffic jams while you can. When you grow to the size of Dallas, let us all know how it worked out. As for Vancouver, discuss freely, but it would be better for the rest of us if you put more thought into it, and maybe studied what you say a touch.

And then there is this: "Vancouver better wake up and realize you need freeways to efficiently move people and goods to stay competitive. Goods being shipped to Asia can easily find other ports that are more efficient and thus less costly to use. When are the next municipal elections in BC?" I agree. Vancouver needs roads as part of the Pacific Gateway package. But, if you think Port Van is even remotely close to losing ground to "other ports," you will have to explain further. If there is one entity no one needs to worry about it the Port . . . rest assured they get what they need one way or another: more rail lines, rail separation, SFPR, land for inter modal facilities, cruise terminal expansions, you name it. And note that the infrastructure of the port goes way beyond the actual transport infrastucture. Logistics alone set the port beyond its competition. Please name these other ports. Less costly. More efficient. Not Seattle. Not Tacoma. Not Portland. Not even close. And Prince Rupert, Vancouver is behind the developments there because we need them. PR compliments Vancouver. Again, you need to learn more.

[Marshal]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Most of the Fraser Valley is as flat as a rock. The reason Vancouver has a lousy road network has nothing to do with terrain and everything to do with poor planning.

This too is just nonsense. If the world were that simple, all of our problems would be small.

Building highways is not a simple matter in the best of conditions. Flat land is hardly a straightforward blessing. You have to look at the composition of the land . . . the valley is a crappy mix of sediments. But even if it weren't, look at a map: where would you route all the freeways. You will quickly find that there are few good routing opportunities because of geography and the fact that the days of easy mass expropriations of private land are gone.

There have been cases of poor planning, but I have never lived anywhere where that's not the case. Blaming it is an overly simply way of dispensing with the issue. And, not very interesting.

[Metro-One]

ugh.....

I would never say that Vancouver has complete freeway network or one of th best, but to be honest, with all that has been done over the last 10 years, it is no where near as bad as some still paint it to be.

The #1 thanks to Gateway from 200th in Langley to The 2nd Narrows bridge in Van / North Van is now arguably the largest / best stretch of freeway in western Canada (with the world's 2nd largest bridge).

Now on both ends of that project major highway upgrades are planned and soon to begin (major upgrades to the north side of the 2nd narrows and a new interchange and HOV lanes east of 200th, along with the new truck climbing lane).

Then there is the SFPR, which while not interstate standard is akin to any major highway I drive here in Asia. The only mistake there was only half of the junctions are interchanges, but it has already been announced that at least one of those built at grade will be upgraded soon to an interchange.

Then there was the entire Robert Banks rail corridor project, where countless at grade rail crossings have now become grade separated, this included several decently large viaduct overpasses, especially in Langley.

Then there were other interchange up grades throughout the region (on the 99 / 91 especially).

The new 7 lane Pitt River bridge replacing two old swing bridges.

The Coast Meridian viaduct over the rail yard.

The GEB and GEW expressway, which has the longest stretch of elevated road in western Canada. (3 km long, with another nearly 1km long viaduct within that project).

Several other local secondary routs were expanded from 2 lanes to 4 lanes south of the river (#10 for example).

Now we have the entire Massey Tunnel replacement project about to commence, including upgrading most of the 99 and its major interchanges, possibly including Western Canada's largest stacked interchange and new longest bridge.

The Pattullo Bridge replacement seems to be serious again with deals met between the adjoining cities.

Seriously, that is just off the top of my head for the last 10 years, that is a shit ton of heavy duty freeway / highway upgrades.

The ports do not need to go anywhere near the city centre, with the #1 upgrades, SFPR, all the rail grade separation projects, and up coming 99 / GMT replacement project, the ports have some really decently connectivity now.

They are not losing any business, so don't worry everyone

I am all for future highway expansion in Vancouver (which I agree, it needs, and is / will be getting), but I fee that people who claim that the highway network is just so terrible that the ports will lose business are living 15 years in the past regarding the regions roads and rails.

PS, the port itself at its Vancouver Burrard site recently completed a decently long viaduct for truck traffic, and is going to be building another one west of the first one. New grade separation was also built at Delta Port.

There actually has been so much rail / road grade separating added in Metro Vancouver over the last decade that is starts to become difficult to list them all.

[Daveography]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I had a chance to putt around Edmonton in my rental car last month. The freeway system is extremely well-developed - although I come from BC, so that's not hard.

I got the sense that there's almost a 2nd ring road in the embryonic stages of development, given the four lane sections of Hwy 60 to Devon and Hwy 21 from Sherwood Park to Fort Saskatchewan. Is this something that's on the books?

Those highways - 37, 21, 19, 60, and 44 - do indeed form another highway loop around the city that connects multiple industrial areas and the airport. I'm not sure what any future plans are for those segments, but they will undoubtedly grow and be upgraded as the region grows as well.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by Daveography

Those highways - 37, 21, 19, 60, and 44 - do indeed form another highway loop around the city that connects multiple industrial areas and the airport. I'm not sure what any future plans are for those segments, but they will undoubtedly grow and be upgraded as the region grows as well.

37 is suppposed to be upgraded. at least that is the word I am hearing. They have done quite a bit of GEO testing along it as well. But it currently isn't in the 5 year plan. I for one would love to see it at least get some shoulders. 19 is getting upgraded and is on the books for this year start.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

There actually has been so much rail / road grade separating added in Metro Vancouver over the last decade that is starts to become difficult to list them all.

The problem isn't that Vancouver hasn't spent enough money or that there aren't enough grade-separation projects, it's that almost no highway projects result in a seamless, connected highway system.

For example, the SFPR isn't fully grade-separated, and at-grade intersections appear at the most annoying spots, such as the access to the Alex Fraser Bridge (aka: the Hwy 91 connector). If there should be a grade-separated interchange anywhere on the SFPR, this is it!

Then there's the 91 south from the Alex Fraser itself which hits a red light at 72nd Ave, backing up traffic. Then there's the Golden Ears bridge, where the road passes under Highway 1 without an exit forcing you to make a left turn from Pacific Highway. All of these are in greenfield sites where you don't have to do any costly expropriation or engineering work. What prevented them from building interchanges here in the first place?

What's ironic is that in most cities the bottlenecks are the bridges. In Vancouver, the bridges are often quite wide and built to highway standards and then, strangely, devolve into surface roads once you get to the ground.

[srperrycgy]

Another video from me. Continuing on Alberta's Bow Valley Trail (Highway 1A) from Cochrane, through Ghost Lake and the Stoney FN to the Junction of Highway 1X. The highway is substandard, but the scenery is quite beautiful.

• Video Link