Heavy Rail, Commuter Rail, & Intercity Transportation

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by MIPS

Wasn't it a thing in the Regan or Nixon Administration that alluded to fund high-capacity rail transit was akin to supporting communism and that alone in the cold war could seed opposition?

There was some really weird fearmongering at play and not just heavy lobbying like we saw with The Motorcycle Wars. (Harley was being outperformed by Japanese imports of smaller, lighter and faster motorcycles, so Regan implemented import restrictions on engines above a certain CC to prop up Harley, so Japan started bolting turbochargers and fuel injection to their engines to skirt it)

It's still to the same effect where people in many states have a belief that they have a right to drive and own a vehicle since it's perceived to be synonymous with their personal freedom. There's a myth down there that the 14th amendment protects their freedom to drive when it permits movement through state lines. The propaganda machine has spanned numerous generations. The auto industry in the USA had numerous campaigns where they vilified pedestrians in the 20s and 30s too and pushed the introduction and enforcement of jaywalking laws.

Originally Posted by chowhou

I don't accept the "woe is us, we can't control our destiny since all our politicians are corrupt malicious demons bought and paid for by the corpos, voting doesn't matter, the events of your life were decided in a board room years ago" crap.

I... don't know what to tell you if you cannot accept this...

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

It's still to the same effect where people in many states have a belief that they have a right to drive and own a vehicle since it's perceived to be synonymous with their personal freedom.

It's more than just perception - in a lot of car-oriented communities with poor transit you're options are rather severely limited if you don't own a car. Lack of mobility is one of the big reasons why people in poor parts of America can't get ahead through no fault of their own.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

I... don't know what to tell you if you cannot accept this...

You're just insane then, truly. Why bother commenting on a thread discussing the future of rail in Canada when it's all been decided in the back rooms of Ottawa, Detroit, and Dallas already? I hope you don't waste your time voting, since it's all the same anyway. Just makes my vote that much stronger.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Evidently the O&G/car lobby has weakened, because the feds are planning a bullet train from Toronto to QC... or maybe it's just because now we have a PM who wants to get it done.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Evidently the O&G/car lobby has weakened, because the feds are planning a bullet train from Toronto to QC... or maybe it's just because now we have a PM who wants to get it done.

The conspiracy brain can never accept it's wrong and will always have an argument for why the conspiracy is still true.

1. We can't build HSR because of the corpo spooks
2. It might look like it's getting built but it's still in planning and the corpo spooks are sabotaging it at this very moment as we speak!
3. Okay it might be in progress but just watch, the corpo spooks will destroy it day one
4. Okay we have HSR but look Europe has more

Something along these lines.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by chowhou

The conspiracy brain can never accept it's wrong and will always have an argument for why the conspiracy is still true.

To be fair, the "conspiracy", if any, doesn't have to still be ongoing for it to continue having an effect. The built environment in North America is so heavily tilted toward being convenient for automobiles that it makes it very difficult for long distance rail to compete. When the first thing you need to do at your destination is rent a car then why not just drive it there to begin with?

Some of this is due to geography, but to the extent that actors conspired to make it so then the effects are still with us.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

To be fair, the "conspiracy", if any, doesn't have to still be ongoing for it to continue having an effect. The built environment in North America is so heavily tilted toward being convenient for automobiles that it makes it very difficult for long distance rail to compete.

It is, but progress has been made and needs to continue to be made to fix the mistakes of the past. My grandmother took the train to go downtown. My dad drove his Buick. I take the train to go downtown. There is political leadership in this respect.

Saying things like, "There is no political leadership in North America as large corporations dictate policies here" is just pure conspiracy brain rot.

Further, if we want to change the built environment, we quite literally have to build the environment we want to see built. It's pathetic to say, "we cannot build rail because have not built rail." And frankly anyone saying the built environment is tilted towards motor vehicles so we can't make HSR work has clearly never been to Taiwan...

https://maps.app.goo.gl/1BJ3vD4zoTfoTdow9

https://maps.app.goo.gl/kCrqycfjdpFR7KSC6

https://maps.app.goo.gl/xwdYDXN9dUX8nXe47

https://maps.app.goo.gl/uwLvrrEHsmcRVF688

All I can say is good luck to anyone expecting a transit connection here.

[Migrant_Coconut]

We're definitely not helped by how the one transit agency in Canada that keeps getting consistent federal money... seems intent on flushing said money down the toilet. Many Alto passengers will end up taking an Uber.

But half of the whole country lives in a 1,150 km line between Windsor and QC, and there's about sixty flights a day between the big three; a similar argument can be made for Edmonton-Calgary. The only obstacles have been the CP/CN monopoly (which goes away if the government builds its own tracks) and lack of political will.