ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[sevensixtwo]

SUMMARY: In 2010 the Assembly districts were redrawn so the majority of the seats are from the metro area. This takes power away from the traditionally dominant rural areas: Republicans. This shift to city living is what put transit on the ballot ASAP. If we say "NO" this year the pressure to do it ASAP will still be there and we'll get something much better next year. The Repubs in control wrote a regressive transit bill aimed to take power away from high-density areas and give it to low density areas. YES to density, NO to splost. Please take the time to read my coherent and logical argument before voting on Tuesday, thanks. I will explain Dashboard "grants" below.


FULL: Tsplost spent $10M on PR much of which went to spamming internet forums with pro-splost ideas, of which I concede there are many. This post is about me explaining why I, a progressive intellectual, am deciding to vote NO despite everyone else yelling YES. Here is my argument.

Dollars are fungible. One dollar you don't have to pay is "exceedingly similar to" an extra dollar that you do have. The Feds are about to indirectly give Atlanta a huge amount of money. By moving transit forward two years, that is two more years of taxes collected. That is two less years of overhead associated with the review. That is two years sooner that improvements of surrounding properties will become viable. This is a huge change in the economy of transit in Georgia. This is big money that I am talking about and is the mechanism through which bond offerings become viable. It's not simply speeding the process, it's creating two years of additional revenue.

This is the truth about TSPLOST: The metro area wants transit reform and the rest of the state doesn't. In the 2010 census the Assembly districts were redrawn and now a majority of the state legislators come from the metro area. Now transit is on the ballot. That's it, end of story. The presence of TSPLOST on the ballot is not about democrats and republicans. It is due to the redistricting of the Assembly. If we vote NO and ask for something better, we will get it because the reality of city living now dominates Georgia politics. This is new. That's why things are different now and traditional arguments are less relevant.

This is where the left/right thing comes into play: the Republicans control Georgia and they wrote a regressive republican transit bill. Yes: it is "something." It does contain many things that are great and will work. Despite the positives, I am against it because control of the T-splost funds is totally undemocratic. Whichever good-old-boy controls each county gets one vote regardless of how many people are in that county. Some counties have as much as 5x more people than others. Fulton gets two votes due its huge population; however, when Milton county is reformed (another Republican initiative pending) about a million historic Fulton residents are left with one vote. The people who know how transit should be done tend to live in Fulton county. We want our voice to count the most, not the least.

Look at how this ordeal mirrors the shift in the Assembly. The state is filling with city dwellers while the redundant rural areas see little growth and see their influence wane. Now tsplost is the Republican solution to transit. It farms power out of the dense areas and into the low density areas by removing the democratic element from the voting process. Transit is on the ballot because the regressivists in Georgia are losing power. If we vote NO, the facts that forced action this year will still be in place next year with even greater pressure.

The Republicans have offered us the worst possible deal they could get away with. We should not take the first offer we get. The Republican's hand was forced by the 2010 census, transit supporters have the power now. We need to demand an equitable solution not cheer for the scraps.

[ChrisInmanPark]

Originally Posted by sevensixtwo

SUMMARY: In 2010 the Assembly districts were redrawn so the majority of the seats are from the metro area. This takes power away from the traditionally dominant rural areas: Republicanss. This shift to city living is what put transit on the ballot ASAP. If we say "NO" this year the pressure to do it ASAP will still be there and we'll get something much better next year. The Repubs in control wrote a regressive transit bill aims to take power away from high-density areas and give it low density areas. YES to density, NO to splost. Please take the time to read my coherent and logical argument before voting on Tuesday, thanks. I will explain Dashboard "grants" below.


FULL: Tsplost spent $10M on PR much of which went to spamming internet forums with pro-splost ideas, of which I concede there are many. This post is about me explaining why I, a progressive intellectual, am deciding to vote NO despite everyone else yelling YES. Here is my argument.

Dollars are fungible. One dollar you don't have to pay is "exceedingly similar to" an extra dollar that you do have. The Feds are about to indirectly give Atlanta a huge amount of money. By moving transit forward two years, that is two more years of taxes collected. That is two less years of overhead associated with the review. That is two years sooner that improvements of surrounding properties will become viable. This is a huge change in the economy of transit in Georgia. This is big money that I am talking about and is the mechanism through which bond offerings become viable. It's not simply speeding the process, it's creating two years of additional revenue.

This is the truth about TSPLOST: The metro area wants transit reform and the rest of the state doesn't. In the 2010 census the Assembly districts were redrawn and now a majority of the state legislators come from the metro area. Now transit is on the ballot. That's it, end of story. The presence of TSPLOST on the ballot is not about democrats and republicans. It is due to the redistricting of the Assembly. If we vote NO and ask for something better, we will get it because the reality of city living now dominates Georgia politics. This is new. That's why things are different now and traditional arguments are less relevant.

This is where the left/right thing comes into play: the Republicans control Georgia and they wrote a regressive republican transit bill. Yes: it is "something." It does contain many things that are great and will work. Despite the positives, I am against it because control of the T-splost funds is totally undemocratic. Whichever good-old-boy controls each county gets one vote regardless of how many people are that county. Some counties have as much as 5x more people than others. Fulton gets two votes due its huge population; however, when Milton county is reformed (another Republican initiative pending) about a million historic Fulton residents are left with one vote. 20% of the people with 9% of the vote. The people who know how transit should be done tend to live in Fulton county. We want our voice to count the most, not the least.

Look at how this ordeal mirrors the shift in the Assembly. The state is filling with city dwellers while the redundant rural areas see little growth and see there influence wane. Now tsplost is the Republican solution to transit. It farms power out of the dense areas and into the low density areas by removing the democratic element from the voting process. Transit is on the ballot because the regressivists in Georgia are losing power. If we vote NO, the facts that forced action this year will still be in place next year with even greater pressure.

The Republicans have offered us the worst possible deal they could get away with. We should not take the first offer we get. The Republicans hand was forced by the 2010 census, transit supporters have the power now. We need to demand an equitable solution not cheer for the scraps.

Even if T-SPLOST fails, there will NOT be another vote next year. Four years at the earliest. Where are you coming up with this stuff? Have you been to T-SPLOST or Beltline meetings? I can't take what you say seriously when you don't have the facts straight.

Personally I would like it to be 100% transit, but I'll take 52% transit. There is by far NO guarantee that we could get a better list that everyone would agree on. I don't want to go around and around for years and years and not get anywhere.

And yes...we should keep this on the thread on construction topics

[sevensixtwo]

I believe you are mistaken, but four more years with democratic control of the funds is still better IMHO.

[ChadK]

Originally Posted by Immovable_Media

that this is a CONSTRUCTION thread related to BUILDINGS. Not transportation. Please take the TSplost debate over to the TRANSPORTATION related board. t-shutthefuckuplost already. Ya'll are cluttering up this nice forum with you're rants.

You haven't been part of this thread long enough to cop such an attitude. Not that time would be an excuse. Please try to be respectful in your posts.

While I agree this topic is better suited for another forum, the TSPLOST is potentially the most beneficial thing in Atlanta right now and deserves to be discussed anywhere and everywhere. It'll be over soon enough one way or the other. Besides there are no new skyscrapers in the works that we haven't already discussed to death. If TSPLOST passes, more businesses will come and we'll have lots of construction to talk about.

[atlantaguy]

^THANK YOU, ChadK. This needed to be said.

This is a life-changing moment approaching for the metro, and certainly IS construction related.

As an example of the possible fallout, there was an absolutely disgusting segment on WSB news this evening about how Post Properties has decided to invest $74,000,000 to purchase a complex in Charlotte vs. spending it locally on new development here.

According to the president of Post, the sole reason for this is that Charlotte voters decided to tax themselves a 1/2 cent transportation tax!!!! Despite the fact that the sole CATS LRT line is only 9 miles long and only carries a fraction of MARTA's daily rail traffic, expect an avalanche of these kind of announcements if this thing doesn't pass.

Sorry, can't find the segment on Channel 2's crappy site, but here is the press release from Post:


Post Properties Announces $74 Million Acquisition of Post South End™ in Charlotte, North Carolina




ATLANTA--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jul. 24, 2012-- Post Properties, Inc. (NYSE: PPS) announced today the closing of its acquisition of the 360-unit Post South End™ apartment community. The community is located in the South End neighborhood of Charlotte, at the Bland Street station on Charlotte’s Lynx Blue Line, which provides light rail service to Charlotte’s major Uptown employment center.

Post South End™ is LEED Silver certified, and was completed in 2009. The community has average unit sizes of 847 square feet and is currently approximately 95% occupied. The community also features 7,612 square feet of retail space that is 100% leased to three restaurant/bar concepts.

The purchase price of the acquisition is $74 million, which the Company funded with available cash. The Company currently expects the yield over its first twelve months of ownership will be approximately 5%, after a 3% management fee and $300 per unit reserve.

Said Dave Stockert, CEO, “The Charlotte apartment market is performing very well, and we are pleased to add a high-quality, well-located community to the Post portfolio in that city. Post South End™ provides access to transit and a mixed-use environment that appeals to the young, educated professionals we look to attract and retain as our residents.”

[simms3_redux]

Originally Posted by ChadK

You haven't been part of this thread long enough to cop such an attitude. Not that time would be an excuse. Please try to be respectful in your posts.

While I agree this topic is better suited for another forum, the TSPLOST is potentially the most beneficial thing in Atlanta right now and deserves to be discussed anywhere and everywhere. It'll be over soon enough one way or the other. Besides there are no new skyscrapers in the works that we haven't already discussed to death. If TSPLOST passes, more businesses will come and we'll have lots of construction to talk about.

Love it!

The whole country and certain business communities globally are watching Atlanta THIS month, not for our construction but to see what we do with TSPLOST. This TSPLOST is big enough to talk about on ANY board or thread anywhere. It's big.

Personally, I don't think it's the best plan, but I have been pushing this hard on everyone I know for nearly 2 years now. It NEEDS to get passed, if not for the projects for the SIGNAL it will send businesses around the world. It will not fix our problem, but it will fix our bad public perception, which is a worse problem than our problem. DC and San Francisco/Bay Area and a dozen metros have worse traffic than Atlanta, but everyone always only talks about Atlanta traffic so we're the poster child with the bad traffic problem that needs to be fixed. This bill is simply lip service, but lip service WORKS and it will definitely expand transit and improve many bottleneck intersections/interchanges.

Now if it passes, jobs will come. Jobs and basically jobs alone spur new development. More new development means a more active CONSTRUCTION thread. So let's debate and discuss TSPLOST because TSPLOST will have a bigger impact on this construction thread than the sum of its individual construction project parts.

[simms3_redux]

And on that note I did NOT vote early and am flying spur of the moment to NYC on Monday evening as of 30 minutes ago. Is early voting over? I wanted to do a celebratory vote ON the 31st so I waited. I'd like to think that even if I don't personally get an opportunity to vote that I persuaded a few people besides myself to vote YES. Then my job will have been done

[bigstick]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

And on that note I did NOT vote early and am flying spur of the moment to NYC on Monday evening as of 30 minutes ago. Is early voting over? I wanted to do a celebratory vote ON the 31st so I waited. I'd like to think that even if I don't personally get an opportunity to vote that I persuaded a few people besides myself to vote YES. Then my job will have been done

Man, you need to find some way to vote YESSSSSSSS.............................

[briantech]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

And on that note I did NOT vote early and am flying spur of the moment to NYC on Monday evening as of 30 minutes ago. Is early voting over? I wanted to do a celebratory vote ON the 31st so I waited. I'd like to think that even if I don't personally get an opportunity to vote that I persuaded a few people besides myself to vote YES. Then my job will have been done

early voting runs through fri jul 27

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

And on that note I did NOT vote early and am flying spur of the moment to NYC on Monday evening as of 30 minutes ago. Is early voting over? I wanted to do a celebratory vote ON the 31st so I waited. I'd like to think that even if I don't personally get an opportunity to vote that I persuaded a few people besides myself to vote YES. Then my job will have been done

Go to the courthouse during lunch. It only took me 5 minutes when I did. It's by the 5 Points MARTA station, assuming you live in Fulton County.

[gttx]

Originally Posted by Immovable_Media

that this is a CONSTRUCTION thread related to BUILDINGS. Not transportation. Please take the TSplost debate over to the TRANSPORTATION related board. t-shutthefuckuplost already. Ya'll are cluttering up this nice forum with you're rants.

Clearly you are new here. The whole point of this thread is to get off topic.

But, frankly, this is perfectly on topic. Nothing will have a bigger impact on development and construction in Atlanta over the next decade than this referendum.

[joecool]

In December I will have been on Skyscraperpage for 10 years... WOW! I've seen a lot of people come and go. I've seen a lot of construction and a lot of stuff that didn't get built. But if this passes then this will be something I have been waiting to see for the last 10 years since being on this forum. Lets hope people vote yes for the gambling too. I think that will brings even more to Atlanta.

On a side note. I was in the Cumberland area for the first time in about 2 years and I noticed about 3 different sites with construction going on off Cumberland Blvd. What are these?

[testarossa50]

I noticed apparent build-out work going on at the bottom of Symphony Tower on 14th St, right next to that weird bank. Anybody know what's up?

[testarossa50]

Also, since we all probably read the ABC here, I'm sure some have noticed this, but this is pretty awesome news:

DOWNTOWN GETTING HIP HOTEL
http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/print-edition/2012/07/27/downtown-getting-hip-hotel.html

A hip hotel brand is breaking into the downtown Atlanta market, a sign of growing confidence in an area that draws millions of tourists a year.

The 263-room Days Inn Atlanta Downtown will become an Aloft hotel — a contemporary, limited-service brand from Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide Inc. (NYSE: HOT).

Pretty awesome news...I wonder if any external changes are in the works.

I actually walked all the way down Peachtree from Midtown to Five Points last night. The tourist presence in downtown is pretty incredible. We lack top-tier tourist attractions of any sort (Golden Gate, Liberty Bell, French Quarter), but there are for whatever reason hordes of out-of-towners wandering around, filling the (typically mediocre) downtown restaurants and hotels. I feel like a lot of Atlantans don't fully appreciate that--you really need to hang out downtown at 8PM or so on a weeknight to get a feeling for it.

[echinatl]

And a Hudson Grill!!!!
http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/blog/peachtree-plate/2012/07/hudson-grille-targets-downtown.html

[ChrisInmanPark]

Originally Posted by joecool

In December I will have been on Skyscraperpage for 10 years... WOW! I've seen a lot of people come and go. I've seen a lot of construction and a lot of stuff that didn't get built. But if this passes then this will be something I have been waiting to see for the last 10 years since being on this forum. Lets hope people vote yes for the gambling too. I think that will brings even more to Atlanta.

On a side note. I was in the Cumberland area for the first time in about 2 years and I noticed about 3 different sites with construction going on off Cumberland Blvd. What are these?

Could it possibly be this under construction in the Cumberland area? Not too familiar with that part of town (burbs).

http://atlanta.curbed.com/archives/2012/07/25/riverwood.php

[ChadK]

Originally Posted by testarossa50

I noticed apparent build-out work going on at the bottom of Symphony Tower on 14th St, right next to that weird bank. Anybody know what's up?

That's most likely the new restaurant, Allee which is opening in the former TROIS space. From what I remember of TROIS there was a small bar area on the lower level which would be next to the bank on 14th.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by testarossa50

I actually walked all the way down Peachtree from Midtown to Five Points last night. The tourist presence in downtown is pretty incredible. We lack top-tier tourist attractions of any sort (Golden Gate, Liberty Bell, French Quarter), but there are for whatever reason hordes of out-of-towners wandering around, filling the (typically mediocre) downtown restaurants and hotels. I feel like a lot of Atlantans don't fully appreciate that--you really need to hang out downtown at 8PM or so on a weeknight to get a feeling for it.

Yeah, the amount of pedestrian activity in the core - even after business hours, continues to impress.

This actually flies in the face of the current thread in City Discussions "Ranking US/Canadian cities by pedestrian intensity."

Cirrus has ranked us thusly:

Tier 4 - Below average

Subgroup 4A
19th Century cities that have degraded so much that they don't have many walkable areas, even though their urban bones are strong.
Cleveland, Buffalo, Detroit

Subgroup 4B
Large 20th Century cities with relatively minimal walkable areas.
Atlanta, Dallas, Houston


Of course I didn't reply to the thread, as I would have probably been banned or the thread would have been instantly locked (as usual when anyone challenges this type of garbage re: Atlanta).

I am beyond sick of Atlanta constantly being dissed by people that have obviously never set foot here...........

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Yeah, the amount of pedestrian activity in the core - even after business hours, continues to impress.

This actually flies in the face of the current thread in City Discussions "Ranking US/Canadian cities by pedestrian intensity."

Cirrus has ranked us thusly:

Tier 4 - Below average

Subgroup 4A
19th Century cities that have degraded so much that they don't have many walkable areas, even though their urban bones are strong.
Cleveland, Buffalo, Detroit

Subgroup 4B
Large 20th Century cities with relatively minimal walkable areas.
Atlanta, Dallas, Houston


Of course I didn't reply to the thread, as I would have probably been banned or the thread would have been instantly locked (as usual when anyone challenges this type of garbage re: Atlanta).

I am beyond sick of Atlanta constantly being dissed by people that have obviously never set foot here...........

The initial post in the thread had us ranked pretty well, in Tier 4 with cities like Baltimore, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Minneapolis, etc. Surprisingly, I got away with making a positive comment about his ranking of Atlanta without any repercussions.

[BlindFatSnake]

For all of you who are eagerly voting yes on the T-SPLOST, on Monday a newly launched website designed to defeat the referendum will appear on this site.

The website is making the rounds on the Southside and in the Urban Core as a stealth attack - just under the radar.

The powerful politicans who have taken a certain minority group for granted will be surprised beyond belief.

I can't wait to hear your screams and cries when this money-grabbing boondoggle is defeated. :-)