Canadian Retail Thread

[osmo]

Amazon wants to replace the postal service and be able to deliver everything to your door. What other reason for Whole Foods aside from they belive they can use WF distribution channels and piggy back to deliver groceries to consumers.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I love Dundas Square. I'm just not a fan of the crappy building behind the wall of advertisement on the north side. They seemed so pre-occupied with the billboards that they forgot that they still needed to give Toronto a quality building.

Two smaller grievances: it's not a true public square and it's sloped. It's not public space even though it's used that way. Private security can ask anyone to exit the square for what ever reason they want. Secondly, that they put underground parking here compromised the success of the square from the get go. It still works but it's not as good as it could have been.

In other words, par for the course for Toronto. Berczy Park is one of the few times Toronto has been ambitious and delivered. Dundas Square is more in line with Toronto standards: not built right the first time. On the bright side, maybe 30 years from now Dundas Square will reach its potential. Overall I still like it.

You love it because you "get" Toronto. I did not realize that Dundas Square was not a pubic space. Who owns it? You are right about Berczy Park - I think it's glorious and I'm hoping that the renewed Grange Park will be another success (and worthy home for Moore's Large Two Figures).

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

42% of all online purchases in the United States go through Amazon. That is beyond impressive.

It's plain nuts. This could only be accomplished with investors throwing money on them hoping they become that company in the dystopian future popular in science fiction. They could also become completely irrelevant in as little as a decade to the next best thing.

[WhipperSnapper]

Dundas Square is a publicly owned square. It is, however, operated as a business.

[OutOfTowner]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It also doesn't matter because Times Square is... Times Square.

And unlike Torontonians who continuously defend Shite Square, New Yorkers universally hate Times Square, avoid it like the plague, and will gleefully tell you how much they think it sucks.

Times Square devolved into the piece of shit that it is today but was never intentionally designed to be a piece of shit.

Unlike Dundas Square.

I will never understand the thought process that lead to the construction of such a failed space in so prominent a location.

Never ever ever.

[OutOfTowner]

Originally Posted by niwell

It's funny how you claim some moral superiority over the rest of the forumers here based on some vague, poorly expressed anti-corporatism or whatever. Or making fun of people on a Skyscraper Board for talking about height...

And yet, 90% of your posts are semi-literate screeds in the middle of the night (wonder why...). Largely rambling rants against anything remotely related to Toronto. One could only wish to have such a fulfilling life. Did the city kick your dog as a kid? Of course we've all been over this before in your former guises.

Bravo! You deftly avoided addressing any issue I brought up in the post that you quoted. Did I mention height?

You know, it was schmarmy little pretentious condescending weasels such as yourself - and there are so many of you annoying c*nts in Toronto - that turned me off the place while I lived there.

I post late because I work late. I don't have time for this crap during waking hours. Plus, my girlfriend mocks me whenever she sees me on here. "Oh sorry to interrupt you, I see you're on your penis blog!" She is wise.

Ever wonder why there are virtually no women here?

Probably not..

[softee]

Originally Posted by OutOfTowner

New Yorkers universally hate Times Square, avoid it like the plague, and will gleefully tell you how much they think it sucks.

Many Torontonians feel the exact same way about Dundas Square. Look at any discussion about Dundas Square on Urban Toronto and /r/Toronto.

[OutOfTowner]

Originally Posted by softee

Many Torontonians feel the exact same way about Dundas Square. Look at any discussion about Dundas Square on Urban Toronto and /r/Toronto.

Indeed, most of my friends in Toronto hate it.

What I will never understand is how or why a city would take the singular opportunity to design such a prominent square - in a place so sorely lacking in squares - and waste that opportunity by intentionally building a tacky piece of shit that is unsuitable for practically any function that a city square is supposed to perform.

I'm baffled as to how that could be allowed to happen.

I mean.. ??????

But then, CityPlace was allowed to happen so..

Must be something in the water.

[Martin Mtl]

/\ I think that you made your point. Maybe you should let it go before alienating every member on the forum ?

[Xelebes]

OoT, it's time to move on. Thank you.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by OutOfTowner

Indeed, most of my friends in Toronto hate it.

What I will never understand is how or why a city would take the singular opportunity to design such a prominent square - in a place so sorely lacking in squares - and waste that opportunity by intentionally building a tacky piece of shit that is unsuitable for practically any function that a city square is supposed to perform.

I'm baffled as to how that could be allowed to happen.

I mean.. ??????

But then, CityPlace was allowed to happen so..

Must be something in the water.

At the risk of inflaming passions, this is still an interesting point. Toronto does seem to rely a lot on what private enterprise wants to do with its public realm, and doesn't seem to provide as much "public sector steering" as some other cities do.

[hipster duck]

I can't believe I'm responding to a troll, but here goes.

Originally Posted by OutOfTowner

What I will never understand is how or why a city would take the singular opportunity to design such a prominent square - in a place so sorely lacking in squares - and waste that opportunity by intentionally building a tacky piece of shit that is unsuitable for practically any function that a city square is supposed to perform.

Dundas Square was an opportunity to build an open space on top of a city-owned underground parking garage. Its primary purpose is to provide a venue for programmed events such as fairs, rib fests, free public concerts, etc. It does this job well. These are important functions of public spaces. Too often people feel that public space's sole purpose is to allow for unstructured, spontaneous activity. Spaces already exist in droves for that: parks, sidewalks; heck, just across the street on the west side, you have an assortment of bizarre characters and hucksters spouting off about everything from Jesus saving you to trying to sell black history pamphlets.

But then, CityPlace was allowed to happen so..

In the late 1990s/early 2000s when downtown revitalization was not a sure thing, Concord Pacific was probably the only development company with a track record of building urban, master planned communities of that scale. Given the size of the land, and the era in which it was sold, they were, frankly, lucky to get a developer who would slowly build high density highrise, urban condominiums over a 20 year period. I doubt that a developer in Montreal would have been able to pull off something of this scope at that time (proof? Angus Shop's lamentable conversion to a big box mall with surface parking).

At the time, the CityPlace masterplan seemed very ambitious. They even had temporary uses for the space like a golf driving range which almost felt like a "Plan B" in case the appetite for high density downtown living failed to materialize.

You have to recognize the context and era in which decisions are made. So far, your posts don't seem to suggest that you're too good in that department.

Must be something in the water.

This is trolling and not worthy of a response.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

At the risk of inflaming passions, this is still an interesting point. Toronto does seem to rely a lot on what private enterprise wants to do with its public realm, and doesn't seem to provide as much "public sector steering" as some other cities do.

That might be true, or it might reflect the scale/volume of private enterprise activity, or some combination. I suppose Dundas Sq could, arguably, support the thesis (although it is an initiative of the City) and there is the still to be determined railway deck park concept. Are there other examples?

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I can't believe I'm responding to a troll, but here goes.



Dundas Square was an opportunity to build an open space on top of a city-owned underground parking garage. Its primary purpose is to provide a venue for programmed events such as fairs, rib fests, free public concerts, etc. It does this job well. These are important functions of public spaces. Too often people feel that public space's sole purpose is to allow for unstructured, spontaneous activity. Spaces already exist in droves for that: parks, sidewalks; heck, just across the street on the west side, you have an assortment of bizarre characters and hucksters spouting off about everything from Jesus saving you to trying to sell black history pamphlets.




In the late 1990s/early 2000s when downtown revitalization was not a sure thing, Concord Pacific was probably the only development company with a track record of building urban, master planned communities of that scale. Given the size of the land, and the era in which it was sold, they were, frankly, lucky to get a developer who would slowly build high density highrise, urban condominiums over a 20 year period. I doubt that a developer in Montreal would have been able to pull off something of this scope at that time (proof? Angus Shop's lamentable conversion to a big box mall with surface parking).

At the time, the CityPlace masterplan seemed very ambitious. They even had temporary uses for the space like a golf driving range which almost felt like a "Plan B" in case the appetite for high density downtown living failed to materialize.

You have to recognize the context and era in which decisions are made. So far, your posts don't seem to suggest that you're too good in that department.



This is trolling and not worthy of a response.

All good points, but in fairness though, there is no big box mall in the Angus shop neighborhood (which is many kilometers away from downtown, in Rosemont, so not really a fair comparison), there is one Lowblaw's with a surface parking lot though.

Even though Angus shop can feel a little suburban, it is still decent, with large parts of it made of public housing, parks, offices in mid-rises buildings. It's actually a successful sector with a good mix of residential and working spaces. The next phase will also be denser and more urban:

[hipster duck]

^That's good to hear. I think if Angus Shops would be redeveloped from scratch today it would probably be a standout neighbourhood - similar to some of the stuff proposed along the Lachine Canal. I'm glad the city is redeveloping a redevelopment, so to speak.

That's the conundrum of urban development. The first mover into a new market takes on the most risk, so they end up developing something very modest on what will eventually be prime land. That's why we sometimes see really bad 1980s townhouses with garages out front in the middle of downtown.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by OutOfTowner

Bravo! You deftly avoided addressing any issue I brought up in the post that you quoted. Did I mention height?

You know, it was schmarmy little pretentious condescending weasels such as yourself - and there are so many of you annoying c*nts in Toronto - that turned me off the place while I lived there.

I post late because I work late. I don't have time for this crap during waking hours. Plus, my girlfriend mocks me whenever she sees me on here. "Oh sorry to interrupt you, I see you're on your penis blog!" She is wise.

Ever wonder why there are virtually no women here?

Probably not..

She is wise. Take her advice. Please stop posting.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Acajack

At the risk of inflaming passions, this is still an interesting point. Toronto does seem to rely a lot on what private enterprise wants to do with its public realm, and doesn't seem to provide as much "public sector steering" as some other cities do.

That's simply not true as much as you may or may not wish it to be. Can't be certain. You are reasonable but, you do get wrapped up in your agenda.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by OutOfTowner

Indeed, most of my friends in Toronto hate it.

What I will never understand is how or why a city would take the singular opportunity to design such a prominent square - in a place so sorely lacking in squares - and waste that opportunity by intentionally building a tacky piece of shit that is unsuitable for practically any function that a city square is supposed to perform.

I'm baffled as to how that could be allowed to happen.

I mean.. ??????

But then, CityPlace was allowed to happen so..

Must be something in the water.

Downtown Toronto is hardly lacking in squares and parkettes. It's larger parks (say 25 acres) that are solely missing.

Yeah, Cityplace was allowed to happen. I'm curious on your thoughts on True North's contribution that was allowed to be built south of the Bell Centre in Montreal. It's much smaller but, still ... only a fool would say that was a lesser wasted opportunity than Cityplace or would find it master plan and architecture better. It's very easy to cherrypick things.

The fact your trolling goes on and on about Dundas Square and Cityplace instead of finding new things to bash only proves that Toronto isn't this awful corporate run wasteland you want it to be. The Bell Centre boom would be right at home in Toronto's Entertainment District. Hey, one of the tower design was originally for the Entertainment District. The two cities are actually more alike than you or Acajack have in their head.

[TownGuy]

Toronto really does suck at building great public spaces





Source

[Martin Mtl]

Everyone hates True North's Jardin Windsor. Over at MtlUrb, it is the most hated urban intervention in Montreal for the last few decades. A huge missed opportunity, but back then nothing else was being build in this city. It's actually became a running gag. Hopefully, it will be completely surrounded by better and larger towers (CF's quad Windsor project) and be forgotten.