Metro Vancouver Road Infrastructure Discussion

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by DKaz

The Coquihalla Hwy has not had any problems that closed the highway for more than a day in the 35 years it's been open. No one plans for a 1 in 200 year rain, it would've drove up costs dramatically.

There were washouts in 1990 but I don't think they lost bridges that year. I just remember the Thursday flooding and washouts Sumas boarder crossing closed because the river over flowed. and Sunday night still not being able to get back up. 1 was the only one open and that was after clearing for a mud slide.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by DKaz

The Coquihalla Hwy has not had any problems that closed the highway for more than a day in the 35 years it's been open. No one plans for a 1 in 200 year rain, it would've drove up costs dramatically.

The big worry is that what was once a 200 year storm becomes a once a decade storm due to the warming atmosphere.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by DKaz

The Coquihalla Hwy has not had any problems that closed the highway for more than a day in the 35 years it's been open. No one plans for a 1 in 200 year rain, it would've drove up costs dramatically.

Consider the fact that we also had a 1:200 heat wave just four months ago. So either this year is a 1:40000 event, or we have to seriously recalculate how frequent these ducking things are going to be from now on.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Consider the fact that we also had a 1:200 heat wave just four months ago. So either this year is a 1:40000 event, or we have to seriously recalculate how frequent these ducking things are going to be from now on.

Wasn't the heat wave 1:1000 year event?

[WarrenC12]

The government is providing an update now. Highway 7 from Vancouver area out to the valley is open 1 lane alternating traffic. They are hoping to have highway 3 open by the end of the weekend which would allow road access to the interior of BC, albeit a roundabout way.

Highway 1, 5, no ETA.

[officedweller]

Good overview here:
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/bc-f...-damage-photos

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Highway 1, 5, no ETA.

Given the scale of the bridge washouts, the work ahead is akin to the initial construction of the highway at those points. It's a lot more than just bulldozing debris off the road and dumping fill onto some new culverts. I expect it's going to be months before the Coq is open. They may be able to do Highway 1 somewhat faster with Bailey bridges.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Given the scale of the bridge washouts, the work ahead is akin to the initial construction of the highway at those points. It's a lot more than just bulldozing debris off the road and dumping fill onto some new culverts. I expect it's going to be months before the Coq is open. They may be able to do Highway 1 somewhat faster with Bailey bridges.

Yep they said months, and that it would be built back to higher standards. I'm not sure if there will be temporary openings during construction, or if they can do much once the ground is frozen.

[cleowin]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Given the scale of the bridge washouts, the work ahead is akin to the initial construction of the highway at those points. It's a lot more than just bulldozing debris off the road and dumping fill onto some new culverts. I expect it's going to be months before the Coq is open. They may be able to do Highway 1 somewhat faster with Bailey bridges.

Looks like the washed out section of the COQ near othello is going to need an elevated concrete curved bridge. Is it possible to safely open the SB lanes as a N/S route temporarily? Bailey bridge where the river bridge collapsed?

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yep they said months, and that it would be built back to higher standards. I'm not sure if there will be temporary openings during construction, or if they can do much once the ground is frozen.

In a way that is a benefit. Normally major road work and upgrades on the routes requires limiting closures at the cost of the work taking longer.
If we assume the highway isn't suitable for commercial trucks until the spring that gives them the entire winter to perform major repairs and upgrades without having to work around traffic. At higher elevations like Larson hill that will mean the cold is an issue but down by Hope the ground never freezes solid.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

There's the option for several other routes out of the Lower Mainland.

The most likely to get built is probably up the Harrison/Lillooet River Valley from Harrison Mills to Pemberton. The FN up there want it. The current road is terrible, but the terrain isn't that bad compared to say the 99 between Squamish and Horseshoe Bay.

That is definitely an interesting route, one with several possibilities for additional tie-ins. As you mentioned, the route from Harrison Mills to Pemberton gives an alternate to 99, one that is also potentially faster for Whistler/Pemberton traffic from the eastern Fraser Valley and beyond.

Building on that, it looks (at least, to this untrained eye) as if you could go up the east side of Pitt Lake, then follow the valleys between (for example) Mt Bole and Osprey Mountain, Sloquet Hot Springs etc to connect near Port Douglas at the top of Harrison Lake. That's about 75 km and makes the Harrison route even more attractive to western Fraser Valley and eastern Metro Vancouver drivers.

If you really want to give additional connectivity, the Pitt Lake-Port Douglas road could continue - probably with some tunnelling - north-east through Nahatlatch Provincial Park to connect with the Trans-Canada near Boothroyd.

With all of that, you'd have alternate routes for access if something happens to 1, 7 or 99.

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

There's also road routes up the Capilano Water shed to Brittannia Beach and up Indian Arm to Squamish. They'd have a fair bit of environmental based opposition, but they've already been mostly established as controlled access roads for forestry or gas pipelines.

I can't see either of these being received well, especially the Capilano route. While there might be the potential to build a road in the Capilano watershed, access to it would run through long-established residential neighbourhoods with effectively zero potential for upgrading to higher-capacity roads. Plus, the North Shore bridges already struggle with the current traffic loads.


EDIT: OK, so routing through Nahatlatch might receive some objections...

Nahatlatch Provincial Park was established in 1999 and protects a representative sample of a relatively undisturbed Coast Mountain drainage. Numerous creeks draining rugged rock and ice ridges at higher elevations flow into one relatively straight and one curved subalpine glacial trough. Frequent slides and avalanches have resulted in a patchwork of old growth subalpine forest stands along the valley bottom.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by DKaz

The Coquihalla Hwy has not had any problems that closed the highway for more than a day in the 35 years it's been open. No one plans for a 1 in 200 year rain, it would've drove up costs dramatically.

I would challenge that this type of flooding is rare. Sumas Prairie/Lake had bad floods in 1894 (before the lake was drained) and 1948.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

I would challenge that this type of flooding is rare. Sumas Prairie/Lake had bad floods in 1894 (before the lake was drained) and 1948.

I'd agree that it has been rare, whether that's going to be true in the future is far less certain.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

I can't see either of these being received well, especially the Capilano route. While there might be the potential to build a road in the Capilano watershed, access to it would run through long-established residential neighbourhoods with effectively zero potential for upgrading to higher-capacity roads. Plus, the North Shore bridges already struggle with the current traffic loads.


EDIT: OK, so routing through Nahatlatch might receive some objections...

Here were the alternative routes

https://ibis.geog.ubc.ca/courses/kli...ma/results.htm

[logicbomb]

Still don't get why the Interior doesn't have an expansive rail network that can support intermodal container transport. In fact, CN recently cut off Kelowna 10 years ago, some suppliers now ship via truck from Kelowna to Vancouver which gets put on an intermodal train that goes back to the Praries.

It would be nice to have at least a few rail lines going through some towns, with some intermodal yards to reduce the amount of trucks on Hwy 1, 3 and 5.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Still don't get why the Interior doesn't have an expansive rail network that can support intermodal container transport.

Over the decades the railways have slowly become more and more focused on efficiency and bulk transport. LCL ("less than carload") and TOFL ("trailer on flatcar") were abandoned as being too costly in the face of competition from trucking companies. The interior just doesn't seem to have a large enough volume of the kind of business that the railways are good at for them to justify a presence there.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Here were the alternative routes

https://ibis.geog.ubc.ca/courses/kli...ma/results.htm

Yes, the Capilano route would require a connection to the Upper Levels, and there's nowhere to do that without major disruption to established neighbourhoods. West Vancouver would never go for it, Fisheries and Oceans Canada (the salmon hatchery), Metro Vancouver (the park/watershed), and the Suspension Bridge would object to using the canyon if that is even technically feasible, and the District of North Vancouver would not want Capilano Road to become a highway.

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Still don't get why the Interior doesn't have an expansive rail network that can support intermodal container transport. In fact, CN recently cut off Kelowna 10 years ago, some suppliers now ship via truck from Kelowna to Vancouver which gets put on an intermodal train that goes back to the Praries.

It would be nice to have at least a few rail lines going through some towns, with some intermodal yards to reduce the amount of trucks on Hwy 1, 3 and 5.

If you have not noticed, most rail lines outside of the coast are locked along the sides of steep canyons, large rivers or mountain ranges. Stuff where it's not cheap to build and the NIMBY pushback is far greater than anything you would ever find in Vancouver.

[SpongeG]

gas restrictions are now in effect for SW BC.

Has the 99 had parts washed away or just been covered with mudslides? Its basically a cleanup job to get it going or will it also require extensive repairs?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Has the 99 had parts washed away or just been covered with mudslides? Its basically a cleanup job to get it going or will it also require extensive repairs?

Drivebc.ca says that highway 99 is closed between Pemberton and Lillooet due to a mudslide 9km north of Pemberton and that there's no estimate yet of when it will be open.