Great Canadian Skyline Thread II - Page 254

WhipperSnapper · #**5061** Posted **Jul 19, 2017, 1:01 AM**

It's the architecture and materials in Winnipeg's Exchange district that gives it that strong Chicago vibe.

TorontoDrew · #**5062** Posted **Jul 19, 2017, 5:51 PM**

[IMG]

Weston Sunset by kotsy, on Flickr[/IMG]

someone123 · #**5063** Posted **Jul 19, 2017, 6:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

Montréal is the most American city with its street grid. Like NY-Phila. NE .

Canadian cities are usually like nearby American cities in the same region. So Winnipeg is kind of like the Midwestern US, Montreal is a lot like Philadelphia, Vancouver's a lot like San Francisco, Halifax is like Boston, etc. Architects and craftsmen worked and trained around these regions, people travelled around in them and shared styles or fashions, and the shared natural environment makes the cities look similar and encourages similar architectural features.

Another thing about Winnipeg is that there hasn't been a ton of construction in recent decades (post-1980's I guess). I think a lot of Canadian cities have diverged from American cities during that time. Toronto and Vancouver have evolved more of a distinct style, or at least the style of glass construction that has become popular in those cities isn't as common in the US. This has happened in Halifax too and it looks like it's happening in Montreal. Vancouver looked mostly like a generic Pacific Northwest city in about 1970 (although even by then I guess there were more highrise apartments than most US cities), but now there is no way you can mistake it for Portland. Toronto looks nothing like Midwestern cities now (maybe a bit like Chicago in the generic central business district type parts) and Halifax is no longer very similar to any New England cities (which today are mostly a mix of heritage buildings preserved in amber and postwar urban renewal abortions).

Yet another factor is that there was less American and more British influence prior to 1880 or so (or French influence long before that). So in older cities you see a lot of European architecture from a time when the US already had its own styles, and that makes some Canadian cities look different from their US counterparts. This trend slowly gave way into the 20th century.

seamusmcduff · #**5064** Posted **Jul 19, 2017, 7:04 PM**

Vancouver definitely does not feel like San Francisco. Portland or Seattle I could maybe agree with.

TorontoDrew · #**5065** Posted **Jul 19, 2017, 8:25 PM**

Ya it's somewhere between Portland and Seattle with a lot more glass.

hipster duck · #**5066** Posted **Jul 19, 2017, 8:41 PM**

^I think that was someone123's point. Historically, Vancouver shared architectural similarities with San Francisco (as did Seattle and Portland). Of course, it wasn't a 1:1 match. San Francisco was far larger and more important at the turn of the 20th century than any city to its north (and it still is, but the gap has shrunk), so the wood-clad Italianate home was far more prevalent and impressive there than in Vancouver.

However, since the late 1970s (I would argue since the late 1950s for Ontario cities), the architectural styles of Canadian cities have diverged. Now they seem to be all coalescing together into a world of modernist glass condo towers with balconies. Vancouver was first, then Toronto, and then gradually every other city has built enough of this type of building that Canadian skylines resemble each other much more than they resemble any American skyline - even the American skylines dominated by residential like Miami.

Winnipeg is kind of the exception.

There are other exceptions like Quebec City and Hamilton, but they don't look like American cities either.

Pinion · #**5067** Posted **Jul 19, 2017, 9:06 PM**

Portland feels like Vancouver in the 80s, Seattle feels nothing like Vancouver IMO. Bellevue, WA, on the other hand (on the east side of the lake separating it from Seattle) is pretty similar.

Culturally, Vancouver is like San Francisco (lots of gays, yuppies, hipsters and homeless drug addicts in close proximity), but not visually and definitely not architecturally.

ainvan · #**5068** Posted **Jul 19, 2017, 9:08 PM**

Harbour Air by Eddie Garry, on Flickr

Vancouver Sunset by ap0013, on Flickr

2017cypress mountain-2 by Aaron Sha, on Flickr

someone123 · #**5069** Posted **Jul 19, 2017, 9:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipster duck

However, since the late 1970s (I would argue since the late 1950s for Ontario cities), the architectural styles of Canadian cities have diverged. Now they seem to be all coalescing together into a world of modernist glass condo towers with balconies. Vancouver was first, then Toronto, and then gradually every other city has built enough of this type of building that Canadian skylines resemble each other much more than they resemble any American skyline - even the American skylines dominated by residential like Miami.

I also find that Canadian cities tend to see more uniform investment compared to American cities, where trophy buildings and gold-plated boutique infrastructure sit next to crumbling old houses and weedy lots on streets that probably haven't seen much improvement since 1920.

I'm not sure if it's still true but the fanciest buildings in Cleveland used to be about on par with their counterparts in Toronto. Toronto doesn't have a Terminal Tower equivalent really and Key Tower in Cleveland is about on par with the nicest Toronto buildings from a similar era, even though by then Toronto was the much bigger and more important city. The nicest buildings that Buffalo has inherited from the 1910's or so are as nice as anything in Canada from that period.

In the long run I think the more uniformly functional and practical cities will pull ahead but American cities definitely have the more impressive showcase areas. I also think that Canadian cities have been a bit more dynamic lately. Just compare progress on infrastructure in Vancouver with American cities like San Francisco and New York.

someone123 · #**5070** Posted **Jul 19, 2017, 9:30 PM**

Another little example of the divergence I know of is highway construction.

In the 1950's-70's, most American cities and just about every New England city took advantage of ambitious federal highway plans. Cities like Boston, Providence, New Haven, and Portland ME are bisected by large freeways.

Boston planned the Big Dig to fix its infrastructure problems. Tens of billions of dollars later they have a giant car tunnel and some conspicuously freeway-shaped parks. I don't think any other New England cities are doing anything about their urban freeways.

In Halifax planners of the era tried to do the same thing but they got shut down partway through, so only an interchange and part of the highway (not downtown) were built. The interchange is going to be demolished starting this fall and it'll be back to something resembling the old street pattern. The plan is unlike any American plan that I know of (not entirely for good reasons; it is less ambitious). We can debate while it all happened but the fact is that physically downtown Halifax is already structured very differently from any large New England city and the gap will be even wider in a couple years.

WhipperSnapper · #**5071** Posted **Jul 19, 2017, 9:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123

I also find that Canadian cities tend to see more uniform investment compared to American cities, where trophy buildings and gold-plated boutique infrastructure sit next to crumbling old houses and weedy lots on streets that probably haven't seen much improvement since 1920.

I'm not sure if it's still true but the fanciest buildings in Cleveland used to be about on par with their counterparts in Toronto. Toronto doesn't have a Terminal Tower equivalent really and Key Tower in Cleveland is about on par with the nicest Toronto buildings from a similar era, even though by then Toronto was the much bigger and more important city. The nicest buildings that Buffalo has inherited from the 1910's or so are as nice as anything in Canada from that period.

In the long run I think the more uniformly functional and practical cities will pull ahead but American cities definitely have the more impressive showcase areas. I also think that Canadian cities have been a bit more dynamic lately. Just compare progress on infrastructure in Vancouver with American cities like San Francisco and New York.

I like the Key Tower. It's one of the better examples of neodeco PoMo from the late 80s and 90s. I certainly wouldn't go as far as to say it's on par with what Toronto put forth at the time. I'm actually quite pleased Toronto dodged that movement (for skyscrapers) when Bay Adelaide ceased construction.

someone123 · #**5072** Posted **Jul 19, 2017, 10:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I like the Key Tower. It's one of the better examples of neodeco PoMo from the late 80s and 90s. I certainly wouldn't go as far as to say it's on par with what Toronto put forth at the time. I'm actually quite pleased Toronto dodged that movement (for skyscrapers) when Bay Adelaide ceased construction.

Well, the subjective question of which buildings look nicest isn't the core of my argument. You could look at it from the perspective of how much the buildings cost or how tall they are. Key Tower would be one of the tallest buildings in Toronto if it were transplanted there. Same goes for, say, Bank of America tower from Charlotte, NC. It was built in 1992 and it would be one of the tallest buildings in Toronto, or the tallest building in any other Canadian city.

There isn't a Canadian Charlotte equivalent that has the head offices of a company like Bank of America.

isaidso · #**5073** Posted **Jul 20, 2017, 4:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123

There isn't a Canadian Charlotte equivalent that has the head offices of a company like Bank of America.

Great West Life in Winnipeg?

Ramako · #**5074** Posted **Jul 20, 2017, 4:13 AM**

The Toronto Skyline by Craig White on Flickr

WhipperSnapper · #**5075** Posted **Jul 20, 2017, 2:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123

Well, the subjective question of which buildings look nicest isn't the core of my argument. You could look at it from the perspective of how much the buildings cost or how tall they are. Key Tower would be one of the tallest buildings in Toronto if it were transplanted there. Same goes for, say, Bank of America tower from Charlotte, NC. It was built in 1992 and it would be one of the tallest buildings in Toronto, or the tallest building in any other Canadian city.

There isn't a Canadian Charlotte equivalent that has the head offices of a company like Bank of America.

I care more about quality and depth than height.

The US is a much larger market. Arguably, there will be more and bigger national/international brands with much larger head offices need. Granted they are many, many more markets to offset the greater population but, it only takes one to to set up shop in a city and build a 2 to 4 million square foot head office. It doesn't help either that Canada is run by oligopolies. There's no competitive need to get all fancy.

Seattle is experiencing an unbelievable commercial boom right now. There's a ton of speculative builds. It's all to lure one exploding company that could occupy as much as 15 million square feet in a few years. That's an unreal amount of space for a head office.

Urban recluse · #**5076** Posted **Jul 20, 2017, 3:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123

Well, the subjective question of which buildings look nicest isn't the core of my argument. You could look at it from the perspective of how much the buildings cost or how tall they are. Key Tower would be one of the tallest buildings in Toronto if it were transplanted there. Same goes for, say, Bank of America tower from Charlotte, NC. It was built in 1992 and it would be one of the tallest buildings in Toronto, or the tallest building in any other Canadian city.

There isn't a Canadian Charlotte equivalent that has the head offices of a company like Bank of America.

I love the BOA tower in Charlotte; it certainly would look great in Winnipeg.