The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[1overcosc]

Toronto sucks at signal priority. Look at St. Clair's supposed signal priority and how often it results in streetcars at red lights.

Ottawa does it right. There's various spots where the Transitway merges into roadways (at Dominion Station, near Lincoln Fields, at Woodroffe just south of Hunt Club) and buses get greens almost always. It's almost impossible to give complete signal priority in all cases especially when frequencies are very high, but it should work at least 90% of the time.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Well, Regina approved the increase. And it will be going up significantly every year until 2017 now.

2014: $2.50, $62
2015: $2.75, $75
2016: $3.00, $82.50
2017: $3.25, $92

Question marks for 2016 since the story doesn't tell what it will be. I'm guessing half-way.

That's a lot if the service doesn't improve.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

Well, Regina approved the increase. And it will be going up significantly every year until 2017 now.

2014: $2.50, $62
2015: $2.75, $75
2016: $3.00, $82.50
2017: $3.25, $92

Question marks for 2016 since the story doesn't tell what it will be. I'm guessing half-way.

That's a lot if the service doesn't improve.

Wow, that'll be more expensive than Translink, which everyone in Vancouver seems to assume is the most expensive one in the country. I really hope this works out, because for such a small city those are big fares.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Wow, that'll be more expensive than Translink, which everyone in Vancouver seems to assume is the most expensive one in the country. I really hope this works out, because for such a small city those are big fares.

Translink isn't bad at all—3.75 is a lot for the zone 3 fare, but the 1.75 zone 1 fare is a bargain.

Ottawa, by contrast, is 3.45, Toronto 3, Calgary 3. All those cities (including Toronto, I think) have transit system inferior to Translink.

[DAVEinEDMONTON]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Translink isn't bad at all—3.75 is a lot for the zone 3 fare, but the 1.75 zone 1 fare is a bargain.

Ottawa, by contrast, is 3.45, Toronto 3, Calgary 3. All those cities (including Toronto, I think) have transit system inferior to Translink.

Translink is the highest. You are quoting the concession fares for students and seniors. The normal fare is $5.50 for 3 zones, $4.00 for 2 and $2.75 for 1zone. And that does not include the $5.00 airport fee. Riding from the airport is 2 zones so the fee is $9.00. There are ways to get around that airport fee if you buy a faresaver ticket in advance but for those who do not know that it is fairly high.

[GlassCity]

I don't know if it's the highest or not, but you're right Dave, the prices Drybrain posted are for students and seniors. I'm just saying people here always complain about it when in reality it's pretty much the same as everywhere else in the country. Regina's new prices will be higher which is what worries me.

[Innsertnamehere]

Torontos cash fare is $3 but regular "token" fare is $2.70. Monthly passes approach $140.

Toronto's cash fare isn't horrible but its monthly pass (what 50% of riders use) is expensive as hell. Then for students $108 is still expensive especially considering that many other schools get some sort of integrated bus pass from their tuition.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Translink isn't bad at all—3.75 is a lot for the zone 3 fare, but the 1.75 zone 1 fare is a bargain.

Ottawa, by contrast, is 3.45, Toronto 3, Calgary 3. All those cities (including Toronto, I think) have transit system inferior to Translink.

$3.45 is the cash fare which only tourists & very occasional riders use. The one-time fare is $2.72 with a Presto card, $3.10 with paper tickets (though paper tickets are being phased out).

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Torontos cash fare is $3 but regular "token" fare is $2.70. Monthly passes approach $140.

Toronto's cash fare isn't horrible but its monthly pass (what 50% of riders use) is expensive as hell. Then for students $108 is still expensive especially considering that many other schools get some sort of integrated bus pass from their tuition.

The heck? That's a very skewed ratio... you'd have to take 52 trips in a month to justify that expense. Definitely means that if you're just taking transit to work it's not worth it.

In Ottawa they deliberately keep the monthly pass at about 38 times the one-time trip, so as to make it an attractive option for people who take transit to work but drive everywhere else (which in Ottawa's suburbs is a very common transportation behaviour).

In Kingston the ratio is even lower. The 1 time fare with the MyCard (our transit smartcard system), is $2.29 and the monthly pass is $72, so a monthly pass becomes better at 31 trips or more. You can also buy a weekdays-only monthly pass for $62, so if you only ever take transit on weekdays the ratio is 27 trips.

[caltrane74]

If you buy a TTC pass, use the heck out of it.

[HomeInMyShoes]

The thing I don't like is the increasing the number of fares you need to cover buying the monthly pass. I take the bus four times a week for eight rides, but I could feasibly drop 3 of those rides a week and do some walking. I did some math.

At eight rides a week, I have 416 rides a year. Currently that would cost me 744 for a bus pass or 832 for the discounted $2 per ride if I buy them in lumps of 20 rides. So it's cheaper. Let's go to the end game, assuming a continued 20% discount for bulk purchases. In 2017, the monthly bus passes will now cost $1352, but a $2.60 per ride cost for my 416 rides would be 1,081.6. For next year the number are $900 versus $915 which is a push. If I'm on vacation and not riding the bus anywhere for a few weeks it's cheaper for me to use tokens and get some more exercise and reduce my costs.

I hope Regina Transit wasn't forecasting their budget on continued use of monthly passes. If there is any discount for bulk tickets I have a feeling they are going to come up short even if ridership remains the same.

Glad I figured out what I am Probably doing next year.

[Innsertnamehere]

You need to take 49 trips to break even on the metropass, 50 to actually save money.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

You need to take 49 trips to break even on the metropass, 50 to actually save money.

If you use it to go to work, and assume there are 22 working days in the month, then you only need 8 casual/recreational trips on the side, to make it pay off. In Toronto that is easily doable.

[HomeInMyShoes]

^Part of the equation is also convenience. That has some value to me. I can see myself buying lumps of discount tickets on my card instead of the monthly pass making it just as convenient. But the 2017 equation for Regina right now is looking like a $270 convenience thing. That's a significant amount of money right now. It's eating a lunch out once a week for almost half a year. Or it's about 9 dozen beer in this over-priced country or about 2,000 custom pieces from the lego store. I have priorities and supporting Regina transit isn't at the top of my list.

[miketoronto]

Toronto's months pass is $133.75.
While it sounds expensive, if you use transit for all your trips, it really is only a few dollars a day.

For commuters who have a car and use transit mostly for work trips, the monthly pass is a waste. This is an issue Toronto must work out. The only good thing is that the monthly pass is transferable. So someone else can use it when you are not.

[travis3000]

I did a count of how much I spend a year owning a car. The numbers are staggering and would have many running to get a TTC pass opposed to owning a car. My insurance is $1450 a year, gas is $3500 a year, maintenance is $1000 a year which includes minor repairs/oil changes, air filters, oiling, snow tire removal/installation, etc. Then there's my actual car payment of $300 a month ($3600 a year). Add it all up and I am spending $9500 a year just for my right to own a car. A TTC pass at $1000 a year doesn't sound so bad all of a sudden for people living downtown. Hell if I lived down there, getting rid of my car might become a whole lot more appealing.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

Toronto's months pass is $133.75.
While it sounds expensive, if you use transit for all your trips, it really is only a few dollars a day.

For commuters who have a car and use transit mostly for work trips, the monthly pass is a waste. This is an issue Toronto must work out. The only good thing is that the monthly pass is transferable. So someone else can use it when you are not.

It's cash up front for the TTC. Stupid to price it so high that only the most frequent user would consider purchasing it.

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

It's cash up front for the TTC. Stupid to price it so high that only the most frequent user would consider purchasing it.

Isn’t it at capacity right now? If so then lowering the cost may not bring in many more people. From an economics standpoint you should probably raise the price, but that’s obviously not what you want from a public policy standpoint. From a public policy standpoint you should increase capacity.

[ssiguy]

The TTC pass is the equivalent of a 2 Zone Vancouver Translink pass covering, like the Metropass, the older city and inner suburbs who saw their huge population increases in the 1950 to 1980's era. A 2 Zone single fare is $4 but the monthly fare is relatively affordable $124.

Toronto seems to go out of it's way for the Metropass to be only slightly more of a benefit for most while Translink pushed up single fare tickets but monthly fares didn't rise as fast in order to encourage more regular transit passengers and not just commuters. I think Vancouver's idea makes far more sense.

[BretttheRiderFan]

I just recently moved to an apartment on 106 street in downtown Edmonton. It's absolutely perfect for transit and I'm considering selling my car, as I haven't used it once in the month I've been here (it costs $60 a month to park it in our lot, not including gas and maintenance, insurance etc etc compared to $80 a month for a transit pass).

Once I'm attending school in the winter semester I'll also have the U-pass.

I live about two blocks from two LRT stations in each direction, there is a transit centre nearby, Jasper Ave is right there with bus links to everywhere I'd need to go, and that overlooks the fact that I basically walk everywhere (work, restaurants, bars, etc).

The beginnings of the new Metro Line of the LRT are opening soon with three new stations (MacEwan, Royal Alex/Kingsway and NAIT stations), and two additional lines (plus extentions to existing lines) have already been approved by City Council.

I really hope these plans come to fruition and we have a city that is truly connected to light rail in almost all corners.

http://www.edmonton.ca/transportation/Long_Term_LRT_Network_Plan_March_2012.pdf