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  #5061  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2017, 9:32 PM
BrutallyDishonest2 BrutallyDishonest2 is offline
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Originally Posted by BigDGoRiders View Post
Me turning around and saying you're a shit person with low character isn't ad hominem, it's a simple statement of fact.
Lol. Ok, BigDGoRiders.
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  #5062  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2017, 10:17 PM
Migs Migs is offline
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Very good column by Terry Jones

New Mosaic Stadium gets rave reviews during CFL Week!

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/fo...week-in-regina
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  #5063  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 12:01 AM
Treesplease Treesplease is offline
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Originally Posted by Migs View Post
Very good column by Terry Jones

New Mosaic Stadium gets rave reviews during CFL Week!

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/fo...week-in-regina
Good article. Funny how Edmonton people will use a story about a stadium in Regina to stick it to Calgary.
Jiggly and BDH2 can take comfort in the fact that Calgary's 2026 Olympic bid is designed to attract significant canadian taxpayer dollars for new stadiums for not one but two professional sports teams (privately owned sports teams). When you file your federal taxes this spring just think to yourself "I love Calgary....I love Calgary....I love Calgary".

Last edited by Treesplease; Mar 27, 2017 at 12:35 AM.
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  #5064  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 4:26 AM
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Nathan Nathan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Treesplease View Post
Good article. Funny how Edmonton people will use a story about a stadium in Regina to stick it to Calgary.
Jiggly and BDH2 can take comfort in the fact that Calgary's 2026 Olympic bid is designed to attract significant canadian taxpayer dollars for new stadiums for not one but two professional sports teams (privately owned sports teams). When you file your federal taxes this spring just think to yourself "I love Calgary....I love Calgary....I love Calgary".
Funny how there is basically unlimited funding if you have an international event that lasts for a couple weeks, but nothing for domestic leagues that have been around for a century...

In any case, feels like this thread could use a break... Turned a little aggressive over the last while...
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  #5065  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 7:06 AM
BigDGoRiders BigDGoRiders is offline
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Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
Wanting taxpayer money to subsidize a professional sports team makes you a piece of shit.
Except the public isn't subsidizing the Riders.

Anybody who thinks the public DOES subsidize the Riders is a stupid person.

Tens of thousands of people use the stadium.

Stadiums do not pull in enough revenues to pay for themselves.

Ergo the public has a civic responsibility the participate in funding a piece of infrastructure that is clearly used by many and that is IMPOSSIBLE without public funds. Period.

You thinking that means the public is "subsidizing the Riders" is a made up reality and therefore irrelevant.

You have the ideology of a simpleton.

Cry harder. We won and you lost.
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  #5066  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 7:35 AM
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youngregina youngregina is offline
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Originally Posted by BigDGoRiders View Post
Except the public isn't subsidizing the Riders.

Anybody who thinks the public DOES subsidize the Riders is a stupid person.

Tens of thousands of people use the stadium.

Stadiums do not pull in enough revenues to pay for themselves.

Ergo the public has a civic responsibility the participate in funding a piece of infrastructure that is clearly used by many and that is IMPOSSIBLE without public funds. Period.

You thinking that means the public is "subsidizing the Riders" is a made up reality and therefore irrelevant.

You have the ideology of a simpleton.

Cry harder. We won and you lost.
I'm neither here nor there on the debate about whether a subsidy is right or wrong. However, the act of subsidy is not an ideology - and a subsidy in its most literal sense is providing direct funding for something that can't support or sustain itself on its own. Taxpayers (Saskatchewanians and Reginan's more specifically) do in fact subsidize the operation of the stadium - I would think of the initial capital funding as more of an 'investment'. You refer to the stadium as being 'impossible' without public funds, yet also say that anyone who thinks providing civic money directly for the purpose of supporting a sports team (this is a subsidy) is a 'stupid person'. I just can't help but wonder if you're the simpleton...
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  #5067  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 8:37 AM
BigDGoRiders BigDGoRiders is offline
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Originally Posted by youngregina View Post
I'm neither here nor there on the debate about whether a subsidy is right or wrong. However, the act of subsidy is not an ideology - and a subsidy in its most literal sense is providing direct funding for something that can't support or sustain itself on its own. Taxpayers (Saskatchewanians and Reginan's more specifically) do in fact subsidize the operation of the stadium - I would think of the initial capital funding as more of an 'investment'. You refer to the stadium as being 'impossible' without public funds, yet also say that anyone who thinks providing civic money directly for the purpose of supporting a sports team (this is a subsidy) is a 'stupid person'. I just can't help but wonder if you're the simpleton...
The operation of the stadium is not the team. Subsidizing the stadium - which is PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE - is not subsidizing the team itself. The team itself subsists off of its own revenues.

The public uses the facility ergo the public has to participate in the paying for it.
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  #5068  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 8:47 AM
BigDGoRiders BigDGoRiders is offline
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Lemme put it this way: How much PST do you think the province of Saskatchewan has collected off of ticket and merchandise sales since the inception of the PST? How much revenue in liquor taxes?

How much economic activity has the presence of the Roughriders generated for the City of Regina over the years? Also from Grey Cup festivals held in the City?

The taxpayer doesn't subsidize the Riders. If anything the Riders subsidize the taxpayer.

Expecting the public to participate in a new stadium - which gets used by community groups NOT named 'Saskatchewan Roughriders' on a regular basis - every 80 or so years is not too much to ask, nor is it a subsidy when the team is paying for a significant portion of the build ASIDE from their own leasehold improvements.

IN FACT the Riders have the greatest share. Last I checked $100 million is more than $73 million or $80 million.

And not only that, but since becoming profitable the Roughriders have been big time givers to the community. They've given away hundreds of thousands, if not over a million dollars to various groups in the last decade. The money invested in extra endzone seats and a big new scoreboard - things not making the trek to the new stadium - weren't sold off to recoup any of that investment. No, those were given away. By the Riders. At their expense.

The Roughriders have done more for the taxpayer over the years than the taxpayer has done for the Roughriders. Fact.

Another fact? The City owns old Mosaic. All of it. Which means that the City actually DOES have the moral and ethical responsibility to make sure that such a piece of infrastructure exists. You know, given the defined need for a stadium and all?

The City and its taxpayers are getting a world class facility for a $2 million yearly loan payment.

So boo fuggin' hoo.
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  #5069  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 10:56 AM
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yveseluj yveseluj is offline
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Originally Posted by BigDGoRiders View Post
Cry harder. We won and you lost.
And that's really the crux of the issue, isn't it. You seem lovely.
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  #5070  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 1:31 PM
PhotoJim PhotoJim is offline
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It seems the ship has sailed. Either you love the stadium, and it's finished; you hate the stadium, but it's too late, because it's finished; or you're more or less indifferent to the stadium, in which you don't care that it's finished.
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  #5071  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 8:10 PM
Migs Migs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGoRiders View Post
Except the public isn't subsidizing the Riders.

Anybody who thinks the public DOES subsidize the Riders is a stupid person.

Tens of thousands of people use the stadium.

Stadiums do not pull in enough revenues to pay for themselves.

Ergo the public has a civic responsibility the participate in funding a piece of infrastructure that is clearly used by many and that is IMPOSSIBLE without public funds. Period.

You thinking that means the public is "subsidizing the Riders" is a made up reality and therefore irrelevant.

You have the ideology of a simpleton.

Cry harder. We won and you lost.
Post more often. :-)
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  #5072  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 10:56 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
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Originally Posted by youngregina View Post
I'm neither here nor there on the debate about whether a subsidy is right or wrong. However, the act of subsidy is not an ideology - and a subsidy in its most literal sense is providing direct funding for something that can't support or sustain itself on its own. Taxpayers (Saskatchewanians and Reginan's more specifically) do in fact subsidize the operation of the stadium - I would think of the initial capital funding as more of an 'investment'. You refer to the stadium as being 'impossible' without public funds, yet also say that anyone who thinks providing civic money directly for the purpose of supporting a sports team (this is a subsidy) is a 'stupid person'. I just can't help but wonder if you're the simpleton...
Yes, clearly it is a subsidy. I don't know how anyone can argue that.

As far as tens of thousands of people using it, that is also true, but the vast majority of them will have to pay a not so insignificant price for the privilege of using it and also at designated times. It's not like a park (people can go at any time for free or a public school (free education) in that sense.

With that said, the finances of a CFL team (even the Riders) are not compatible with a 100% privately funded stadium. Public financing is pretty much a requirement.

I think the only 100% privately financed stadiums tend to be in very large cities (ie. New York, LA) and even those may come with strings attached (ie free land, tax exemption).
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  #5073  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 11:28 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
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Originally Posted by BigDGoRiders View Post
Lemme put it this way: How much PST do you think the province of Saskatchewan has collected off of ticket and merchandise sales since the inception of the PST? How much revenue in liquor taxes?

How much economic activity has the presence of the Roughriders generated for the City of Regina over the years? Also from Grey Cup festivals held in the City?

The taxpayer doesn't subsidize the Riders. If anything the Riders subsidize the taxpayer.

Expecting the public to participate in a new stadium - which gets used by community groups NOT named 'Saskatchewan Roughriders' on a regular basis - every 80 or so years is not too much to ask, nor is it a subsidy when the team is paying for a significant portion of the build ASIDE from their own leasehold improvements.

IN FACT the Riders have the greatest share. Last I checked $100 million is more than $73 million or $80 million.

And not only that, but since becoming profitable the Roughriders have been big time givers to the community. They've given away hundreds of thousands, if not over a million dollars to various groups in the last decade. The money invested in extra endzone seats and a big new scoreboard - things not making the trek to the new stadium - weren't sold off to recoup any of that investment. No, those were given away. By the Riders. At their expense.

The Roughriders have done more for the taxpayer over the years than the taxpayer has done for the Roughriders. Fact.

Another fact? The City owns old Mosaic. All of it. Which means that the City actually DOES have the moral and ethical responsibility to make sure that such a piece of infrastructure exists. You know, given the defined need for a stadium and all?

The City and its taxpayers are getting a world class facility for a $2 million yearly loan payment.

So boo fuggin' hoo.
If you are referring to additional economic activity in Regina and the Province of Saskatchewan, the answer is 0 or close to it.

If the CFL were to fold up shop, Rider fans would not save the thousands of hard-earned dollars spent on games, merchandise, etc. They would divert that money towards other entertainment options or consumable goods. These options, of course, would provide the province with tax revenues as well.

There are a number of studies that illustrate the lack of economic growth provided by stadiums/pro sports teams.

http://news.stanford.edu/2015/07/30/...s-noll-073015/
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/s...orth-the-cost/
https://www.marketplace.org/2015/03/...winners-cities
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffrey.../#6a2d536b4f07

Those are just a few articles discussing the economic impact or lack thereof provided by pro sports and new stadium builds.

A more grounded selling point for new publicly funded stadiums/arenas within communities would be the quality of life argument - it provides the city with an additional entertainment option. However, since it would be difficult to sell the public on such a heavily subsidized project with one primary benefit, certain interested businessmen and government officials like to exaggerate or even fabricate the extent to which sports team or new stadium will impact the economy of a region/city.

It's great that Regina and cities like Winnipeg, Ottawa, Hamilton, Edmonton and BC have new/refurbished stadiums which will do a great job in securing each team's financial future, but let's not pretend these provide some kind a overall net positive economic benefit to the city/region in which they reside. In the end, it is just another entertainment option - one that I and many others really enjoy.
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  #5074  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2017, 7:39 AM
watchedmofu watchedmofu is offline
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Expect a Mosaic concert announcement shortly,There will be 33,000 tickets available for the show. My lips are sealed on the performer or performers.
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  #5075  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2017, 1:15 PM
UPP UPP is offline
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
If you are referring to additional economic activity in Regina and the Province of Saskatchewan, the answer is 0 or close to it.

If the CFL were to fold up shop, Rider fans would not save the thousands of hard-earned dollars spent on games, merchandise, etc. They would divert that money towards other entertainment options or consumable goods. These options, of course, would provide the province with tax revenues as well.

There are a number of studies that illustrate the lack of economic growth provided by stadiums/pro sports teams.

http://news.stanford.edu/2015/07/30/...s-noll-073015/
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/s...orth-the-cost/
https://www.marketplace.org/2015/03/...winners-cities
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffrey.../#6a2d536b4f07

Those are just a few articles discussing the economic impact or lack thereof provided by pro sports and new stadium builds.

A more grounded selling point for new publicly funded stadiums/arenas within communities would be the quality of life argument - it provides the city with an additional entertainment option. However, since it would be difficult to sell the public on such a heavily subsidized project with one primary benefit, certain interested businessmen and government officials like to exaggerate or even fabricate the extent to which sports team or new stadium will impact the economy of a region/city.

It's great that Regina and cities like Winnipeg, Ottawa, Hamilton, Edmonton and BC have new/refurbished stadiums which will do a great job in securing each team's financial future, but let's not pretend these provide some kind a overall net positive economic benefit to the city/region in which they reside. In the end, it is just another entertainment option - one that I and many others really enjoy.
While these studies are true, the Riders are a bit of an anomaly as they draw fans from long distances. Unlike a cities like Edmonton, Calgary or Vancouver who draw probably 95% of their fans from locals, the Riders draw probably nearly 30% of their fans from well outside the city. These fans would have no reason to visit the city if they weren't attending Rider home games. Many, in places like Saskatoon or Yorkton, would probably spend their discretionary entertainment dollars on Oilers or Jets tickets if the Riders didn't exist. That would amount to at least 40,000 lost 'visits' to Regina each year. That's substantial.
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  #5076  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2017, 12:37 AM
#1Fan #1Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post

As far as tens of thousands of people using it, that is also true, but the vast majority of them will have to pay a not so insignificant price for the privilege of using it and also at designated times. It's not like a park (people can go at any time for free or a public school (free education) in that sense.
It's hard to believe but the general public could rent the old stadium (pending there weren't any other events scheduled) for a measly $60/hour. It was a public facility and was used as such. A few friends and myself, as well co-workers on several occasions rented out the stadium for a few afternoon games of flag football. The turf was like running on concrete and we only used 30 yards (to the endzones) due to not being athletes, but it's a cool experience that I wish more folks would have taken advantage of (maybe if they knew??). We had no affiliation with the city or team, just a bunch of randoms that rented the field.

The new field/stadium will run similar programs but I expect it to be booked up much more often and I'm not 100% sure on pricing yet.
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  #5077  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2017, 12:47 AM
Treesplease Treesplease is offline
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Originally Posted by watchedmofu View Post
Expect a Mosaic concert announcement shortly,There will be 33,000 tickets available for the show. My lips are sealed on the performer or performers.
The GoGo's?
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  #5078  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2017, 1:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Treesplease View Post
The GoGo's?
Might be even more underwhelming to some.
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  #5079  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2017, 4:26 AM
watchedmofu watchedmofu is offline
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May 27 is the date and i myself find it very under whelming.
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  #5080  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2017, 5:21 AM
Treesplease Treesplease is offline
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Originally Posted by watchedmofu View Post
May 27 is the date and i myself find it very under whelming.
country?
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