CHICAGO | Boom rundown - everything over 12 floors. v5 - Page 252

DIESELPOLO · #**5021** Posted **Dec 24, 2007, 4:02 PM**

hi chicago folks, love your city and love your active forum as well. Granted the building boom u are experiencing, do you know if it is in part with instituting your new zoning and urban plan? are there many building/zoning variances granted or bc of the new est. rules, are developers simply making these buildings within the rules and therefore contributing to an increasing vibrant, urban landscape. don't know if this was the appropriate place to ask, so u can pm me as to not clog up this board with responses. thanks!...and Merry Christmas!

emathias · #**5022** Posted **Dec 24, 2007, 4:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by harryc

Yes I think your right - 757 Orleans is a lot closer, and just N of SoNo West ( the crane I see from the green line ).

I think you meant to say "and just north IS SoNo West," since 757 N Orleans is south of SoNo. :-)

emathias · #**5023** Posted **Dec 24, 2007, 4:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIESELPOLO

... making these buildings within the rules and therefore contributing to an increasing vibrant, urban landscape ...

What makes you think that you have to build things within the current/new zoning rules in order to contribute to an increasingly vibrant, urban landscape?

I ask, especially, since while some of the rules help prevent things that detriment the urban experience, some of the zoning changes are totally neutral and almost arbitrary and other of the zoning changes seem to have been designed to cripple the ability of an area to get to densities that make for a real urban experience.

BVictor1 · #**5024** Posted **Dec 24, 2007, 4:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron38

Yeah, the North tower should have matched the South tower, which doesn't have the blank wall feel. And it does seem silly that they clad 2/3 of the floor plates and painted the rest. Why not clad all at that point?

But I wonder how long the back will be visible? They tore down the only interesting thing on the lot immediately to the west. It looks like there are plans for the site, and the way that parking garage wall was left rough and unfinished makes me think it isn't planned to be empty for long.
Is there a proposal or rumor for that lot? If you include the parking lot on Ontario and that low wharehouse thing, it's good sized.

Well, remember that Northwestern owns the land, and that they are "exploring" places in the neighborhood for parking garages.

emathias · #**5025** Posted **Dec 24, 2007, 4:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by harryc

...
Not sure what to make of the carpeted sheet pile, must be only the top couple of feet - will this help in cutting off the sheet piles later ...

If I had to guess, I'd say it may be to help keep the ice-cold steel away from the concrete so that it cures properly - similar to when they put straw on sidewalks poured in cold weather.

VivaLFuego · #**5026** Posted **Dec 24, 2007, 4:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIESELPOLO

hi chicago folks, love your city and love your active forum as well. Granted the building boom u are experiencing, do you know if it is in part with instituting your new zoning and urban plan? are there many building/zoning variances granted or bc of the new est. rules, are developers simply making these buildings within the rules and therefore contributing to an increasing vibrant, urban landscape. don't know if this was the appropriate place to ask, so u can pm me as to not clog up this board with responses. thanks!...and Merry Christmas!

In terms of downtown zoning and the Central Area Plan, I would say yes, they have contributed to or otherwise largely supported downtown redevelopment and vibrancy.

In terms of almost every other neighborhood in the city, I would say the only positive effect has been in limiting strip mall development along commercial streets. Otherwise, the new zoning basically ensures many neighborhoods will never develop the sort of density required to support vibrant and pedestrian-oriented retail districts; this combines with the fact that there is overall way too much commercial zoning in the city to mean that we can look forward to decades more of decayed and bombed out retail streets just steps from otherwise attractive and well-kept residential streets (and further, these bombed-out commercial stretches aren't brining the tax revenue they would if they were zoned and developed more appropriately.

Summary:
Central Area Plan - Good
Zoning code - Mostly bad.

DIESELPOLO · #**5027** Posted **Dec 24, 2007, 9:17 PM**

interesting! so Chicago's downtown plan (the loop, millennium park, Johnny Hancock-area) is working well, but the neighborhood plans/zoning (Wrigleyville, southside?) you feel are misguided and shortsighted. thanks, exactly what i was curious about.

the urban politician · #**5028** Posted **Dec 25, 2007, 12:14 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVictor1

Well, remember that Northwestern owns the land, and that they are "exploring" places in the neighborhood for parking garages.

denizen467 · #**5029** Posted **Dec 25, 2007, 6:37 AM**

Yuck indeed. It is a very "logical" place for a parking garage (probably can't build a residential tower there), especially so near the LSD underpass to Ohio Beach and Navy Pier, and the plot size would work, so maybe that's their plan. But, among other negatives, it would contribute to the already really awful congestion on Ontario east of Fairbanks.

The only benefit possibly would be if they also demolish the adjacent MRI facility building to build the parking garage - it's pretty decrepit, particular on the Ohio side.

jet cm · #**5030** Posted **Dec 25, 2007, 11:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias

If I had to guess, I'd say it may be to help keep the ice-cold steel away from the concrete so that it cures properly - similar to when they put straw on sidewalks poured in cold weather.

It's waterproofing.

aaron38 · #**5031** Posted **Dec 25, 2007, 2:37 PM**

Merry Christmas Chicago!

the urban politician · #**5032** Posted **Dec 26, 2007, 2:59 AM**

Not to interrupt the commotion of this very busy day full of posting, but according to the Yo, The Huron Club project has reserved 19 out of 47 units as of November, and in fact those 19 units were reserved within 1 week of the sales center's opening.

Mr Downtown · #**5033** Posted **Dec 26, 2007, 3:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIESELPOLO

interesting! so Chicago's downtown plan (the loop, millennium park, Johnny Hancock-area) is working well

Anyone familiar with Chicago would find this pretty humorous, as Chicago basically pays no attention to any plans. Millennium Park, for instance, came completely out of left field and in the late 1990s we had the rather curious spectacle of the Park District conducting a "Grant Park Framework Plan" process while one huge corner of it was already under construction, with planning participants not even being told what was going on there.

After a decade in office, the mayor was reluctantly persuaded to allow preparation of a Central Area Plan, which was basically a transportation wish list. A new citywide zoning ordinance was approved in 2003, but there was never any remapping so there's no relationship between zoning and any plan of any kind. Plans created for near-Loop areas such as the South Loop have been utterly ignored since they were adopted.

Relatively little downtown development occurs as-of-right, so the zoning is not particularly relevant. Everything over 330 feet has to be a Planned Development, which means it's reviewed by planning staff. However, there are no criteria for that review, so it quickly becomes a game of who's the better bluffer, and who has hired the right zoning attorney.

Basically, planning in downtown Chicago means "the mayor said OK." Planning documents and zoning ordinances in Chicago have about as much impact as a Gideon Bible in a hot-sheets motel room.

the urban politician · #**5034** Posted **Dec 26, 2007, 4:01 AM**

^ And your complaint is?

Downtown Chicago is booming. People want to be there. It is a gigantic magnet for investment, and will be so for a long time to come. Ooohs and aaaahs from everyone are eminating in the wind.

Dan in Chicago · #**5035** Posted **Dec 26, 2007, 1:49 PM**

Status updates for the main list:

- Avenue East is completed.

- 1400 Museum Park and Allure at K Station are topped out.

- The Tides, River North Marriott Suites, and 1720 South Michigan should be changed to 2008.

600 North Fairbanks looks like it's completed, but it's not quite - they're still cladding some columns at the top. It might be finished next week.

Mr Downtown · #**5036** Posted **Dec 26, 2007, 2:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ And your complaint is?

What a joke city planning is in Chicago. The original question was about how much of Chicago's boom was due to planning. The answer is obviously "none at all," because Chicago doesn't have any planning.

VivaLFuego · #**5037** Posted **Dec 26, 2007, 3:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Anyone familiar with Chicago would find this pretty humorous, as Chicago basically pays no attention to any plans. Millennium Park, for instance, came completely out of left field and in the late 1990s we had the rather curious spectacle of the Park District conducting a "Grant Park Framework Plan" process while one huge corner of it was already under construction, with planning participants not even being told what was going on there.

After a decade in office, the mayor was reluctantly persuaded to allow preparation of a Central Area Plan, which was basically a transportation wish list. A new citywide zoning ordinance was approved in 2003, but there was never any remapping so there's no relationship between zoning and any plan of any kind. Plans created for near-Loop areas such as the South Loop have been utterly ignored since they were adopted.

Relatively little downtown development occurs as-of-right, so the zoning is not particularly relevant. Everything over 330 feet has to be a Planned Development, which means it's reviewed by planning staff. However, there are no criteria for that review, so it quickly becomes a game of who's the better bluffer, and who has hired the right zoning attorney.

Basically, planning in downtown Chicago means "the mayor said OK." Planning documents and zoning ordinances in Chicago have about as much impact as a Gideon Bible in a hot-sheets motel room.

I didn't see the word "Alderman" appear once in this rant, which seems incomprehensible in a discussion of development in Chicago. Da Mayor does not have total say over development, no way no how, you can't ignore Natarus's role in downtown development over the last decade, nor the grinding halt under the reigns of terror of Fioretti/Reilly.

The Central Area Plan isn't followed to the letter, as you point out, but it certainly has some broad guidelines that are adhered to in development.

Agreed with your take on the relative impotence of the new citywide zoning, and it becomes even more apparently meaningless when you look at the zoning map of areas like Lakeview where basically every parcel has different zoning.

i_am_hydrogen · #**5038** Posted **Dec 26, 2007, 10:48 PM**

Posts re: Cabrini Green were moved to the General Developments thread. Please continue any further discussion there:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=105764

Dan in Chicago · #**5039** Posted **Dec 26, 2007, 11:27 PM**

According to a construction worker on site, test piles have already been put in the ground for Glashaus, so that's one more construction start for 2007. A few of you were curious about the number of high-rise starts this year. Here is the listing by month:

JAN

Emerald, North Tower
Emerald, South Tower
1600 Museum Park
Astoria Tower
Burnham Pointe
Pure
The Legacy at Millennium Park

FEB

Michigan Avenue Tower 2

MAR

One Museum Park West
757 North Orleans
Aqua
235 West Van Buren
Dana Hotel and Spa

APR

Lexington Park
353 North Clark
Superior 110

JUN

Ten East Delaware
The Mondial
Silver Tower
Staybridge Suites
Dwight Building

JUL

1555 South Wabash
Chicago Spire
R+D659
theWit Hotel

AUG

SoNo, West Tower

SEP

Streeter Place

OCT

155 North Wacker
Hotel Palomar

NOV

Museum Park Place 2

DEC

Glashaus

What's amazing is the discrepancy between some of these. Astoria Tower and Burnham Pointe both started in January; Astoria is just starting to rise, while Burnham has been topped out for over a month. Or compare the Dana Hotel, which is topped out, with OMPW or 235 West Van Buren. The Dwight Building probably set a speed record for this boom: 5 months from the first caisson to topping-out.

Also amazing is the pace at which the year started. Out of 31 construction starts, 25 took place in the first 7 months of the year. May was the only month without a start.

Rocket1 · #**5040** Posted **Dec 27, 2007, 1:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan in Chicago

Also amazing is the pace at which the year started. Out of 32 construction starts, 26 took place in the first 7 months of the year. May was the only month without a start.

Do you have a feel for how many starts per month we're likely to see in 2008?

I'm wondering if the recent slowdown is just temporary, of if it looks like we'll stay mired at the 1 start per month pace we've seen the last 5 months