Federal Government & Politics II

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Build.It

Canada should be preparing for a post-America world order.

Is it really realistic for us to do that, though? Isn't it like a fish trying to prepare for a waterless natural world?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Build.It

That said, one of them is actively funding a war that benefits no one (except weapons manufacturers), and the other has said he will stop funding it.

Another Russian talking point.

[Hawrylyshyn]

Originally Posted by Build.It

To be clear, I think both Biden and Trump are senile idiots and would prefer literally anyone else, but these are the options Americans are presented with. That said, one of them is actively funding a war that benefits no one (except weapons manufacturers), and the other has said he will stop funding it.

This also provides thousands of good paying jobs in America and helps stimulate the economy

Like I previously said (and you ignored) the alternative also encourages Russia to attack NATO. Because that'll do wonders for America and the world...

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Build.It

Canada should be preparing for a post-America world order.

Ahh yes. The BRICS fantasy. America isn't disappearing anytime soon. They might be less active. But that is not a post-American world order.

[Build.It]

.

[Build.It]

Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn

This also provides thousands of good paying jobs in America and helps stimulate the economy

Like I previously said (and you ignored) the alternative also encourages Russia to attack NATO. Because that'll do wonders for America and the world...

I'd much rather see 500,000 people still alive, and view less profit for American weapons manufacturers as a good tradeoff.

If this doesn't stop at Ukraine, I'd change my tune.

[kool maudit]

This is not a live issue in Canadian politics, as there is near-total consensus. Theories about US administrations and the proxy war belong in the Ukraine thread. Besides, it is Europe that will be left holding the bag on this one, not North America. Hopefully its contents do not glow.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Build.It

Says the guy whose job depends on Canada participating in warfare.

I get paid regardless of whether we go to war or not. In fact, it's better for me, that we don't go to war.

I'd just prefer that my kids don't grow up in a world where global norms are set by dictators. If called upon, I am willing to put my life on the line for that principle. I know that's hard to understand for a person who has no principles beyond a dollar.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

This is not a live issue in Canadian politics, as there is near-total consensus. Theories about US administrations and the proxy war belong in the Ukraine thread. Besides, it is Europe that will be left holding the bag on this one, not North America. Hopefully its contents do not glow.

100% As far as I can tell it's a consensus issue here for all practical purposes - it has little bearing on Federal issues.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Build.It

I'd much rather see 500,000 people still alive, and view less profit for American weapons manufacturers as a good tradeoff.

Historically Ukraine has suffered more from Russian oppression rather than Russian invasion.

Ukraine is doing the west a favour by keeping Putin preoccupied, and bleeding his military resources. We should be supporting them.

If we stop supporting Ukraine, and Putin wins, do you actually think he will stop his aggression? Putin pines for the good old days of the Soviet Empire. Belorussia and Kazakhstan could be easily absorbed (they are already Russian puppet state). The next countries on his list will be the Baltics.

It was a great shock to the Kremlin when these countries entered NATO, and put NATO forces right on the Russian frontier. They would love to rectify this at almost any cost. If Trump wins, and he makes American participation in NATO conditional and elective, then European resolve might falter and Putin may get his chance.

Is this what you want???

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Build.It

I'd much rather see 500,000 people still alive, and view less profit for American weapons manufacturers as a good tradeoff.

More people would be alive if we didn't fight Hitler in WWII or a whole bunch of proxy and peripheral wars against the Soviet Union and simply just accepted the growth of Communism. Honestly, is there anything you would actually fight for, other than a tax cut?

Ukrainians are fighting to avoid the Russian boot on their necks that they've lived with through the Soviet Union and the Russian Empire before that. They understand that they'll have dead Ukrainians even if they don't fight. Their history has taught them that about the Russians. And we've all seen what Russians do to the Ukrainians in areas they control.

Originally Posted by Build.It

If this doesn't stop at Ukraine, I'd change my tune.

The only thing keeping it from going beyond Ukraine is the deterrent effect of NATO. And yet here you are endorsing the politician who said he would endorse invasions of NATO countries.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Is this what you want???

Not that I am a fan of the commies, but discussions with libertarians always remind me of this quote apparently attributed to Lenin:

The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them.

The libertarian bros would happily throw Eastern Europeans under Putin's boot if it saved them 10 cents on their next tax return.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Honestly, is there anything you would actually fight for, other than a tax cut?

Amazing! I just popped into this thread to say that this was the best line I read on this forum this week.

*exits*.

[Dengler Avenue]

Honestly, is there anything you would actually fight for, other than a tax cut?

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Amazing! I just popped into this thread to say that this was the best line I read on this forum this week.

*exits*.

Sadly many people may actually be asking themselves that question right now. I don’t doubt that people asked the same question during WWII.
What eventually got U.S. involved was Pearl Harbour attack.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I get paid regardless of whether we go to war or not. In fact, it's better for me, that we don't go to war.

I'd just prefer that my kids don't grow up in a world where global norms are set by dictators. If called upon, I am willing to put my life on the line for that principle. I know that's hard to understand for a person who has no principles beyond a dollar.

Let me add my support as the idea being a soldier is like selling mortgages so your opinion is biased seems ridiculous. If anything a firm response to Ukraine is key to avoiding Canadian direct involvment/deaths.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Build.It

To be clear, I think both Biden and Trump are senile idiots and would prefer literally anyone else, but these are the options Americans are presented with. That said, one of them is actively funding a war that benefits no one (except weapons manufacturers), and the other has said he will stop funding it.

One wants to help a democratic country to defend itself, the other wants to help Putin destroy it.

Russian stooges are pathetic.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Let me add my support as the idea being a soldier is like selling mortgages so your opinion is biased seems ridiculous. If anything a firm response to Ukraine is key to avoiding Canadian direct involvment/deaths.

Exactly why you will see so much support among serving members for helping Ukraine. What Russia will do next is less of a nice hypothetical debate question to my buddies sitting in Latvia and flying patrols off the Romanian coast.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Build.It

I'd much rather see 500,000 people still alive, and view less profit for American weapons manufacturers as a good tradeoff.

If this doesn't stop at Ukraine, I'd change my tune.

You would rather kneel before Putin like a pathetic slave.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

You would rather kneel before Putin like a pathetic slave.

To be fair, he knows he isn't subject to the consequences. He is just fine with Ukrainians being forced to accept Russian oppression and cultural genocide (alongside some actual genocide). And of course, he'll expand that opinion to the Baltics and Scandinavia in a few years. Can't wait to hear how we should all let China simply have Taiwan next too. The most important thing is he gets a tax cut.

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by Build.It

If this doesn't stop at Ukraine, I'd change my tune.

Neville Chamberlain, is that you?