Austin | Q2 Stadium (Austin FC) | Complete

[loonytoony]

Originally Posted by Syndic

I'm honestly kinda glad they're not trying to awkwardly wedge an apartment block onto the site. It'll be better if it's more open/less cramped.

Same. Plus I would have concerns given the prior use of site. It's one thing for a stadium, another entirely for people to be living there day to day. I know there's been remediation but still..

[Novacek]

Housing still has to be onsite unless the council okays otherwise. But even if it's onsite, it'll be done as a later stage of development (not the initial site plan).

[mostly_afk]

i see a few parking spots available. must be a midweek match.

i'm actually looking forward to marching over to the match from any one of the nearby bars.

[ILUVSAT]

Looks awesome. I think the ownership group is making a rather big mistake not making this thing 25,000-27,500 from the get-go. 20,500 is going to be too small and drive game day ticket prices through the roof - leading to bad PR. Demand vs. supply...it's pretty simple.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by ILUVSAT

Looks awesome. I think the ownership group is making a rather big mistake not making this thing 25,000-27,500 from the get-go. 20,500 is going to be too small and drive game day ticket prices through the roof - leading to bad PR. Demand vs. supply...it's pretty simple.

Tickets get sold for what ownership decides to sell them for. Nothing forces them to sell them for more.

The question is whether Precourt will go for the short term gain or the long term play. Giving the planning I've seen so far, my money is on the later.

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by ILUVSAT

Looks awesome. I think the ownership group is making a rather big mistake not making this thing 25,000-27,500 from the get-go. 20,500 is going to be too small and drive game day ticket prices through the roof - leading to bad PR. Demand vs. supply...it's pretty simple.

I agree. But even though the demand seems to be there for perhaps a 25K stadium, I think all they had to go on was speculation when choosing the stadium size. IF...there are consistent sellouts, I can't imagine that wouldn't influence ticket prices. But I think everyone was caught off guard in regards to the tremendous support they have already received. Perhaps too late and too expensive for a stadium redesign at this point what with ground breaking just a month away. I am wondering how far away this stadium will be visible. It would make a cool landmark.

[mostly_afk]

Originally Posted by the Genral

I agree. But even though the demand seems to be there for perhaps a 25K stadium, I think all they had to go on was speculation when choosing the stadium size. IF...there are consistent sellouts, I can't imagine that wouldn't influence ticket prices. But I think everyone was caught off guard in regards to the tremendous support they have already received. Perhaps too late and too expensive for a stadium redesign at this point what with ground breaking just a month away. I am wondering how far away this stadium will be visible. It would make a cool landmark.

They left room for a small expansion. I think there is room to add at least 2000 more seats in the future. Ticket prices will have to be very high to keep me away. I am sure sizing the stadium was difficult given the attendance in Dallas and Houston. Those two markets (and stadiums) are completely different than what is happening here, but still, it would have to give financing some concern with the average attendance in Dallas is only 15k and Houston (downtown) 17K. I would expect Austin to more like Portland given our demographics, and they average 21k (before their expansion). I would love to see a full stadium for a mid week Open Cup match here in Austin.

[GoldenBoot]

Originally Posted by Novacek

Tickets get sold for what ownership decides to sell them for. Nothing forces them to sell them for more.

True (obviously). But, unless they restrict sales to third parties, those third parties will set the market price for individual games. As an example, a single seat ticket for UT/LSU has a face value of ~$100. However, third party tickets are going for north of $500 for the worst seats.

I think we all could agree that tickets (at least in the first few years) will be difficult to come by unless one purchases season tickets. By the time AFC starts turning those reservations into actual sales, there will easily be more than 40-50,000 requests for seats. And, they are only building a 20,500-seat stadium. I think a 25,000-seat stadium would be the sweet spot.

As a point of reference...Portland just expanded their downtown stadium to seat a little more than 25,000 ($??M); Nashville is building a 30,000+ seat stadium ($275M); and Cincinnati's new stadium will hold 26,000 ($215M).

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by GoldenBoot

True (obviously). But, unless they restrict sales to third parties, those third parties will set the market price for individual games. As an example, a single seat ticket for UT/LSU has a face value of ~$100. However, third party tickets are going for north of $500 for the worst seats.

Right, but I'm arguing it's vastly different "PR" for scalpers to be screwing people over vs. ownership.

Originally Posted by GoldenBoot

I think we all could agree that tickets (at least in the first few years) will be difficult to come by unless one purchases season tickets.

I'm confident MLS will be successful in Austin.

I'm less sure that tickets will be impossible to come by for, for instance, random Wednesday night games.

I think it's smart to take it a bit wait and see for a few years. That also gives it a bit of time for infrastructure to catch up before expanding the crowds. More transportation infrastructure. Even more residences and hotels within walking distance.

Originally Posted by GoldenBoot

By the time AFC starts turning those reservations into actual sales, there will easily be more than 40-50,000 requests for seats. And, they are only building a 20,500-seat stadium. I think a 25,000-seat stadium would be the sweet spot.

Bear in mind that there's a drop off from requests to actual purchases. It's great that we have the record for the former, but there's definitely cases where people put in requests for both premium and regular seats (it's only an extra $100 after all, refundable) to see what the prices would be.

Originally Posted by GoldenBoot

As a point of reference...Portland just expanded their downtown stadium to seat a little more than 25,000 ($??M); Nashville is building a 30,000+ seat stadium ($275M); and Cincinnati's new stadium will hold 26,000 ($215M).

I think that Portland is an excellent model. They only recently expanded it, despite being one of the top supported teams historically. Austin can do the same.


Again, MLS is going to do great in Austin. But one of the reasons Precourt (and MLS) are so excited to be here (paying the whole stadium, etc.) is not only the current prospects, but the future. Take a few years, maybe do the small expansion to 22k. Then after another decade or so, take stock in the state of the market (with Austin metro being another 30% larger than now). Don't kneejerk a hugely expensive and disruptive expansion to "only" add 5k seats (if you're going to regret not going even larger soon).

And in the meantime, even more reason to quickly add a women's team, to spread around the attendance and demand.

[mostly_afk]

Originally Posted by GoldenBoot

True (obviously). But, unless they restrict sales to third parties, those third parties will set the market price for individual games. As an example, a single seat ticket for UT/LSU has a face value of ~$100. However, third party tickets are going for north of $500 for the worst seats.

I think we all could agree that tickets (at least in the first few years) will be difficult to come by unless one purchases season tickets. By the time AFC starts turning those reservations into actual sales, there will easily be more than 40-50,000 requests for seats. And, they are only building a 20,500-seat stadium. I think a 25,000-seat stadium would be the sweet spot.

As a point of reference...Portland just expanded their downtown stadium to seat a little more than 25,000 ($??M); Nashville is building a 30,000+ seat stadium ($275M); and Cincinnati's new stadium will hold 26,000 ($215M).

The UT/LSU example doesn't carry over. LSU is a premium opponent; you won't see the same demand for the KU game. Also, UT only has six home games a year, where Austin FC will have at least 18.

Most MLS teams offer partial packages (4 to 5 games). You will not have 40,000 people asking for 18 game packages. In the open market, I can find tickets to the Portland/Whitecap game starting at $35. I could pay much more, but since the stadium is relatively small, the $35 ticket is just as close the action as the second deck at DKR. The market will keep single game ticket prices reasonable. I don't see Austin FC facing the same kind of demand as Atlanta (they are an outlier), but Austin could replicate what is seen at Portland or LAFC.

[atxsnail]

Originally Posted by GoldenBoot

True (obviously). But, unless they restrict sales to third parties, those third parties will set the market price for individual games. As an example, a single seat ticket for UT/LSU has a face value of ~$100. However, third party tickets are going for north of $500 for the worst seats.

I think we all could agree that tickets (at least in the first few years) will be difficult to come by unless one purchases season tickets. By the time AFC starts turning those reservations into actual sales, there will easily be more than 40-50,000 requests for seats. And, they are only building a 20,500-seat stadium. I think a 25,000-seat stadium would be the sweet spot.

As a point of reference...Portland just expanded their downtown stadium to seat a little more than 25,000 ($??M); Nashville is building a 30,000+ seat stadium ($275M); and Cincinnati's new stadium will hold 26,000 ($215M).

I suspect the team probably wishes, in hindsight, that they had designed a 25k venue like you suggest. I don't know a thing about construction but I'm guessing the additional cost, while significant, wasn't the main factor. It's probably more the potential PR hit of having an only partially-full stadium in year 1.

They had market research that suggested this would be a success, but it still took a lot of faith. There are lots of examples around the league that would create some doubt, like with the Houston Dynamo and FC Dallas. Both of them struggle to draw in what should be thriving markets. Red Bull Arena, arguably one of the best soccer venues in the country in our largest metro area, has a capacity of 25k. Attendance there has been so bad lately that they've placed tarps over sections in the upper decks.

I have a feeling Nashville aimed way too high with their new stadium. It may only be a USL (2nd division) team right now, but they are not impressing with their current average attendance of around 7k. It's a crowded sports market and I think the team will struggle to capture the attention of the market in the way the Predators did. Their logo and branding was also widely panned (I agree it's pretty bad).

Cincinnati on the other hand drew crowds of over 30k multiple times to watch minor league soccer even before there was any guarantee the team would ever make it into MLS. They averaged 25k last year. They'll be just fine.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by atxsnail

I suspect the team probably wishes, in hindsight, that they had designed a 25k venue like you suggest. I don't know a thing about construction but I'm guessing the additional cost, while significant, wasn't the main factor. It's probably more the potential PR hit of having an only partially-full stadium in year 1.

They had market research that suggested this would be a success, but it still took a lot of faith. There are lots of examples around the league that would create some doubt, like with the Houston Dynamo and FC Dallas. Both of them struggle to draw in what should be thriving markets. Red Bull Arena, arguably one of the best soccer venues in the country in our largest metro area, has a capacity of 25k. Attendance there has been so bad lately that they've placed tarps over sections in the upper decks.

I have a feeling Nashville aimed way too high with their new stadium. It may only be a USL (2nd division) team right now, but they are not impressing with their current average attendance of around 7k. It's a crowded sports market and I think the team will struggle to capture the attention of the market in the way the Predators did. Their logo and branding was also widely panned (I agree it's pretty bad).

Cincinnati on the other hand drew crowds of over 30k multiple times to watch minor league soccer even before there was any guarantee the team would ever make it into MLS. They averaged 25k last year. They'll be just fine.

I haven't been following the Nashville situation too closely. Though I wonder if the size of the stadium was driven less by market analysis and more by politics (within MLS and without). Nashville may have felt pressure to "go big" to impress MLS and win the expansion bid (from googling, it sounds like their stadium will immediately be the biggest soccer-only facility in the country?). Austin didn't have yo worry about that.

[loonytoony]

Originally Posted by GoldenBoot

True (obviously). But, unless they restrict sales to third parties, those third parties will set the market price for individual games. As an example, a single seat ticket for UT/LSU has a face value of ~$100. However, third party tickets are going for north of $500 for the worst seats.

I think we all could agree that tickets (at least in the first few years) will be difficult to come by unless one purchases season tickets. By the time AFC starts turning those reservations into actual sales, there will easily be more than 40-50,000 requests for seats. And, they are only building a 20,500-seat stadium. I think a 25,000-seat stadium would be the sweet spot.

As a point of reference...Portland just expanded their downtown stadium to seat a little more than 25,000 ($??M); Nashville is building a 30,000+ seat stadium ($275M); and Cincinnati's new stadium will hold 26,000 ($215M).

One more thing I may add to what others have said: from what I've seen MLS in general doesn't have a lot of scalping. There are ticket marketplaces where tickets can be resold yes, but they're at market rates. The ticket rep I met with said there would be a similar setup here...and that they would be paying attention to see if any particular ticket(s) were being sold every game (scalper alert!). It could just be sales talk but did make me feel better about options.

[StoOgE]

It's also not a bad long-term move to create some demand. Overall sports attendance is down nation-wide.

[GoldenBoot]

Originally Posted by StoOgE

It's also not a bad long-term move to create some demand. Overall sports attendance is down nation-wide.

But rising in the MLS...

[StoOgE]

Originally Posted by GoldenBoot

But rising in the MLS...

Sure, NBA as well.

But a growing segment of a shrinking market should still be aware of the bigger picture. MLS is growing because soccer is growing in popularity in the US and has plenty of room to grow. But there is an upper limit to maximum sales for a sport in the US, and that number is shrinking.

[zrx299]

Originally Posted by StoOgE

It's also not a bad long-term move to create some demand. Overall sports attendance is down nation-wide.

Price gouging at the concession stands and beer vendors, plus everyone has HD or 4K tv's now.

Paying $9 for slice of pizza and $14 beers gets old very quickly.

[freerover]

Anti stadium petition was sent to the November election by council. Tell your friends to vote against it or we’ll have to deal with lawsuits to stop construction on the stadium.

[H2O]

Originally Posted by freerover

Anti stadium petition was sent to the November election by council. Tell your friends to vote against it or we’ll have to deal with lawsuits to stop construction on the stadium.

Tell all your friends to vote no on both Sports and Entertainment (anti-soccer) and Convention Center petitions to send a clear message to the petitioners to stop wasting our time and money holding these ridiculous anti-development petition elections.

[The ATX]

It looks like we're on track for that September groundbreaking. The site plan for site prep (F1) was approved:

https://abc.austintexas.gov/web/perm...ertyrsn=168714