Ideas/Visions for Ottawa, Canada's Capital

[DogsWithJobs]

Many of my friends (millenials) have bought homes in Orleans. Although they do go out, they almost exclusively go out in Orleans.
I don't think it is realistic to expect people in the suburbs to help make downtown more lively, no matter how good the transit gets.
They have pubs, restaurants, and craft breweries there, so they see no need to go downtown anymore.

On a seperate note, I went to checkout the section of Bank Street that was closed off to car traffic on saturday, and it was essentially a ghost town. Almost no businesses except for the royal oak were taking advantage of the extra space. We ended up just going to Elgin instead, which actually had people and patios.
Could they not have closed off bank in the Glebe instead? I feel like that would have been far more successful. The current closure feels pointless.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by DogsWithJobs

Many of my friends (millenials) have bought homes in Orleans. Although they do go out, they almost exclusively go out in Orleans.
I don't think it is realistic to expect people in the suburbs to help make downtown more lively, no matter how good the transit gets.
They have pubs, restaurants, and craft breweries there, so they see no need to go downtown anymore.

On a seperate note, I went to checkout the section of Bank Street that was closed off to car traffic on saturday, and it was essentially a ghost town. Almost no businesses except for the royal oak were taking advantage of the extra space. We ended up just going to Elgin instead, which actually had people and patios.
Could they not have closed off bank in the Glebe instead? I feel like that would have been far more successful. The current closure feels pointless.

The Glebe BIA is very pro-cars. They even kicked Councillor Menard off the board for suggesting they close a few street side parking spots to encourage physical distancing.

So yes, closing Bank in the Glebe would be far more successful, but it's not going to happen.

I would assume the closed section of Somerset between Bank and O'Connor is probably quite lively. Good concentration of bars on that stretch, unlike downtown Bank which is more retail, pastry shops and shawarma.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by DogsWithJobs

Many of my friends (millenials) have bought homes in Orleans. Although they do go out, they almost exclusively go out in Orleans.
I don't think it is realistic to expect people in the suburbs to help make downtown more lively, no matter how good the transit gets.
They have pubs, restaurants, and craft breweries there, so they see no need to go downtown anymore.

On a seperate note, I went to checkout the section of Bank Street that was closed off to car traffic on saturday, and it was essentially a ghost town. Almost no businesses except for the royal oak were taking advantage of the extra space. We ended up just going to Elgin instead, which actually had people and patios.
Could they not have closed off bank in the Glebe instead? I feel like that would have been far more successful. The current closure feels pointless.

That's weird - a friend of mine told me that he was down on Bank and that it was jammed. Depended on the time of day, perhaps?

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Hoping Blackburn's proximity to Montreal station sparks renewed interest in the area. I would love to see some medium density development along Innes, creating something resembling a traditional main street.

Montreal station is actually useless for Blackburn. Transit in Blackburn is concentrated as an east west corridor on Innes that connects to Blair.

There is a bus route that connects to Montreal station (the 28) but it's far less frequent than the 25 and during weekdays daytime it runs as a long slow winding route through Blackburn. From the community core, it's a 9 minute trip to Blair on the 25 but a 16 minute trip to Montreal on the 28. And that's not even factoring in the frequency difference. So even if you're going east to Orleans it's faster to connect at Blair.

During evening and weekends the 28 is a lot better as it runs as a straight line on Bearbrook, making the travel times faster. But even then, it's only 1-2 minutes faster to Montreal than Blair, and the 25 is still way more frequent.

I suppose they could adopt the straight line routing all the time and use the time savings to make the 28 a frequent route but even then Montreal will only be better than Blair for trips to northern Orleans.

tl;dr - the addition of Montreal station won't make Blackburn any more transit accessible than the construction of Blair station already has.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by CityTech

Montreal station is actually useless for Blackburn. Transit in Blackburn is concentrated as an east west corridor on Innes that connects to Blair.

There is a bus route that connects to Montreal station (the 28) but it's far less frequent than the 25 and during weekdays daytime it runs as a long slow winding route through Blackburn. From the community core, it's a 9 minute trip to Blair on the 25 but a 16 minute trip to Montreal on the 28. And that's not even factoring in the frequency difference. So even if you're going east to Orleans it's faster to connect at Blair.

During evening and weekends the 28 is a lot better as it runs as a straight line on Bearbrook, making the travel times faster. But even then, it's only 1-2 minutes faster to Montreal than Blair, and the 25 is still way more frequent.

I suppose they could adopt the straight line routing all the time and use the time savings to make the 28 a frequent route but even then Montreal will only be better than Blair for trips to northern Orleans.

tl;dr - the addition of Montreal station won't make Blackburn any more transit accessible than the construction of Blair station already has.

Blair Station also has shopping making it a more useful destination for transit. Montreal Station has nothing to offer other than a transfer to the Confederation Line. I just can't see Montreal Station as being very popular.

[lrt's friend]

It is great to have 15 minute neighbourhoods and we need work on that, but walkability as a city as a whole also means that walkable neighbourhoods have to be linked together by frequent transit.

In the videos that I posted, Jarrett Walker explains that transit becomes more useful the more locations that can be reached within specific periods of time. For example, 45 minutes. He called it 'freedom' for the transit rider. The larger the area of freedom, the more successful transit will become.

The more successful transit is, the more pedestrians there will be. Every transit rider starts and ends their trip as a pedestrian. Automatically, our city becomes more lively.

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Blair Station also has shopping making it a more useful destination for transit. Montreal Station has nothing to offer other than a transfer to the Confederation Line. I just can't see Montreal Station as being very popular.

Honestly it would have made way more sense to have a station at Jasmine Crescent instead of at Montreal Road. Montreal has very little walkup demand and isn't well positioned as a transfer station (for both Blackburn and Beacon Hill, Blair is better suited), whereas a Jasmine location would have lots of walkup traffic

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It is great to have 15 minute neighbourhoods and we need work on that, but walkability as a city as a whole also means that walkable neighbourhoods have to be linked together by frequent transit.

In the videos that I posted, Jarrett Walker explains that transit becomes more useful the more locations that can be reached within specific periods of time. For example, 45 minutes. He called it 'freedom' for the transit rider. The larger the area of freedom, the more successful transit will become.

The more successful transit is, the more pedestrians there will be. Every transit rider starts and ends their trip as a pedestrian. Automatically, our city becomes more lively.

Yeah, one of the reasons why I brought up Blackburn Hamlet is that not only is it one of the few examples of a 15 minute neighborhood in the suburbs, it also has good transit connections.

The whole Innes corridor has a huge amount of potential. IMO, the city should seriously consider a tramway on Innes (including Blackburn Hamlet, through the village and not on the bypass) instead of the Cumberland Transitway. The 25 already has a solid ridership as evidenced by the high frequencies throughout the day and it could kickstart more development.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

A long video on transit with Jarrett Walker. Some interesting points where we may be making mistakes. About an hour in, he talks about 'beta' transit technology that causes major problems and I immediately thought of the Confederation Line. Ottawa is the beta tester city for these new trains, the first in the world for this model. Ottawa residents lose by being the beta tester and Alstom is the benefactor when they get the many bugs out and sell it to other cities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cS8...aMFY9L&index=7

I certainly understand that beta technology is a risk (Scarborough RT!) but to say that any new technology is a beta technology is a bit of stretch. Overall, the Confederation Line is a collection of existing technologies, with some implementation problems. There's nothing new about any of it actually, no weird proprietary designs or limitations. When the Alstom LRVs need replacing, we can go to the market and there will be compatible vehicles from multiple manufacturers, all largely standardized.

An LRT with OCS is common the world over with little change in decades. SELTrac is mature technology, and Alstom is a reputable supplier, including experience here in Ottawa. The trains themselves were new, but based off an existing design from a company with a portfolio of these products. When the three consortia were bidding, one chose Alstom, one chose Bombardier and I don't recall the third. Alstom had a modified existing product, Bombardier had a modified existing product. The third option wasn't Siemens, the only company with a proven product in the North American market. Even if it was though, the trains we bought would be unlikely to be identical to anywhere else's.

Trains aren't like cars. Volumes are low enough that there is rarely a fully proven product on the market, and each customer is going to get an iterated design with changes to keep the product current and meet local needs. Someone is always going to be testing the new product or we'd be stuck in the steam era. I understand Jarrett's point, but I feel like it applies better to things like hyperloop, maglev, and other systems where the vehicles are specific to one manufacturer.

This is off-topic for this thread.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

A long video on transit with Jarrett Walker.

It's funny you cite Jarrett Walker. You should look up his thoughts on having to transfer and on suburban sprawl.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by CityTech

Honestly it would have made way more sense to have a station at Jasmine Crescent instead of at Montreal Road. Montreal has very little walkup demand and isn't well positioned as a transfer station (for both Blackburn and Beacon Hill, Blair is better suited), whereas a Jasmine location would have lots of walkup traffic

I can think of several stations that should have taken a back-burner to Jasmine, and Montreal could have been one of them. That said, I assume the City opted to build it now since the 174/Montreal/St-Joseph intersection had to be rebuilt anyway. Easier to include the station as part of the initial project than shoehorn it in later considering the complexity of the area.

I could see Montreal station becoming a busy hub for those cycling to transit. Depending on new bus routes, it could serve as a secondary (or maybe tertiary) bus-rail transfer. Until they start building TOD in the Canotek Business Park, I don't think we'll see a whole lot of walk-up traffic.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

It's funny you cite Jarrett Walker. You should look up his thoughts on having to transfer and on suburban sprawl.

I fully support building much better suburbs. I support 15 minute communities.

His views on transfers are nuanced. You should note his comments on transit freedom. Transfers only work well with a high frequency network. I have spoken about transit grids, which is something that Jarrett Walker speaks about and what he implemented in the Houston transit re-design. I don't mind transfers if they are efficient. Note that a transit grid only requires one transfer to get practically anywhere.

Your comments tell me that you don't fully understand my viewpoint.

[lrt's friend]

We all know why Ottawa was never a waterfront city. Downtown faced cliffs and waterfalls, and the Rideau Canal was built as a military canal, which restricted use along its shore-line. The waterfalls made them industrial sites. Navigation was very limited and what little there was became obsolete as soon as railways came on the scene.

How do we invigorate our waterfront when there has been so little history to make use of the waterfront other than for green-space or in very limited locations, for industry?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I fully support building much better suburbs.

Who doesn't? The reality though is that we still don't have walkable suburbs. The Mac's is now closer. That's about it.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I support 15 minute communities.

By car or foot? Because most Ottawa suburbs are the former.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

His views on transfers are nuanced. You should note his comments on transit freedom. Transfers only work well with a high frequency network. I have spoken about transit grids, which is something that Jarrett Walker speaks about and what he implemented in the Houston transit re-design. I don't mind transfers if they are efficient. Note that a transit grid only requires one transfer to get practically anywhere.

Your comments tell me that you don't fully understand my viewpoint.

If you knew his views, you'd know exactly what he'd say about wasting billions on another subway in the core just to avoid transfers, while most of the city still doesn't have decent bus service.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Who doesn't? The reality though is that we still don't have walkable suburbs. The Mac's is now closer. That's about it.



By car or foot? Because most Ottawa suburbs are the former.



If you knew his views, you'd know exactly what he'd say about wasting billions on another subway in the core just to avoid transfers, while most of the city still doesn't have decent bus service.

I have said many times that a Bank Street subway is but a dream and I will never see it, so it isn't about me. If anything, it is about serving our most urban parts of the city and our most important commercial street. Bank Street is Ottawa's equivalent of Yonge Street.

We have been designing transit to serve suburban commuters as the top priority and not serving and promoting the most urban parts of the city. We have been relegating all our urban commercial streets to substandard service. How will those streets ever achieve their potential? Isn't this part of making the city more lively and dynamic? How this will be accomplished is another question knowing the huge expense of building a subway. Are there alternatives that will work? All I know is that Bank Street north of Billings Bridge is becoming increasingly congested, which makes transit more and more inefficient.

[lrt's friend]

By car or foot? Because most Ottawa suburbs are the former.

I am fortunate because I have two grocery stores, two pharmacies, 5 schools, several restaurants (both sit down and fast food), a public swimming pool and many other services within a 15 minute walk of where I live. It still could be better, because sidewalks are not complete. I have complained about that to my councillor and have had a story published in the community newspaper about it. Also, the city removed our public library after amalgamation, something our community was not pleased about.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by wave46

Everything is so segregated and cocooned unto its own thing, especially in very new suburbs like Kanata. You have industrial parks, malls/shopping and housing at such scale and segregation to make exploring a pain, even on something like a bicycle.

It's not just a pain... it's boring as hell.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by CityTech

Not surprising. All the things I mentioned as attributes (mixed housing types, neighbourhood-focused retail, good all-day transit) are seen as negatives by the suburban types.

I'd say Blackburn Hamlet has a better future ahead of it - assuming any re/development proposals that emerge over time don't get NIMBYed to death - than Orleans or any of the rest of that irredeemable suburban garbage to the east.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

How do we invigorate our waterfront when there has been so little history to make use of the waterfront other than for green-space or in very limited locations, for industry?

Sacred cows make the best hamburgers. This is why we need to kill Ottawa's "green space" fixation with fire.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We have been relegating all our urban commercial streets to substandard service. How will those streets ever achieve their potential?

The short answer is.. they won't. We have committed all our resources, both financial and political, into building an urban transit system for the least urban parts of the city. And we have built political institutions that are overtly anti-urban. Four years of O'Brien and now too many years of Watson Club in charge are baking anti-urbanity into the fabric of Ottawa even more than it already was before (and it was bad before.)

All I know is that Bank Street north of Billings Bridge is becoming increasingly congested, which makes transit more and more inefficient.

And transit, more and more, gets relegated in the priority whenever we rebuild any of our main streets, and is treated as expendable.

Increasingly, if you're in Ottawa, and you want to be urban, your best bet is going to be to move to a city that knows and thinks it's a city, and acts like it.