[St. John's] Transport development (Highways, Airport, and Public Transit)

[AnUrbanLife]

Since I'm on the snowclearing, topic must be the recent weather, here's another article I found interesting:

It's from spacing.ca It details sidewalk snowclearing in Atlantic Canadian Cities.

http://spacing.ca/atlantic/2013/12/1...nadian-cities/

[Horsell]

After the way things have gone this winter with the early snow and the various snow/rain/snow events in February and now March, this has been a very difficult year on snow clearing.

The City needs to take a long hard look at how and where it removes snow and clears sidewalks. I would even suggest a public forum to get feedback and to see if anyone has any better ideas how to do what needs to be done.

To see from the CBC infographic that the volume of streets has increased 30% yet the budget has more than doubled since 1996 seems to point to some problems, even with inflation factored in.

[rthomasd]

The mayor keeps touting how well the city is doing by referencing the snow clearing budget and standards. But I find these standards to be troublesome, like who decided that the storm standard is 25 cm and clearing in 12 hours (why not 8 or 10). The snowclearing effort doesn't seem to change if it's 5 cm or 25 cm. For me in Cowan Heights, it's useless to clean the driveway till the plow comes by for the third time, meanwhile near-by side-streets haven't seen the plow once in that time.

It would be useful to know what the city's labour standards are, when do the shifts start/end, where were the plows yesterday morning? The mayor says each route is about 30 lane-km, surely each street on the route should get serviced more than once in 12 hours?

The weekly snow clearing report to council says the budget is $ 16 M in three categories,
$ 5.3 M for Personal services (mostly labor, aren't most of these people permanent?)
$ 6.5 M for Contractual Services
$ 3.3 M for Supplies ( $ 3.1 M for salt/sand)
Under contractual it shows $ 4.8 M for fleet services of which only $ 50,000 has been spent. So what is this item, accounting for about 1/3 of the whole budget?

So, while the city claims $ 16 M for snowclearing, it's really $ 11 M ?

[ThisIsJustePourDire]

I thought this website would be cool to share. SJIAA has developed a "wish list" for routes that they would like to see in the future. They are hoping to increase service to London and Montreal and also expand into more cities in Europe (Aberdeen, Oslo, Frankfurt).

http://www.therouteshop.com/profiles...ional-airport/

And also,
I am doing the History of St. John's Airport for my grade eight Heritage Fair project, and I recently interviewed the Director of Operations. He was telling me that they are trying to bring back the Moncton flight, but not with Pascan, but Air Canada. Also they are trying to work on getting the LHR flight all year and also trying to get a seasonal flight to Frankfurt on airlines like Condor, Thomas Cook, etc.

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by ThisIsJustePourDire

I thought this website would be cool to share. SJIAA has developed a "wish list" for routes that they would like to see in the future. They are hoping to increase service to London and Montreal and also expand into more cities in Europe (Aberdeen, Oslo, Frankfurt).

http://www.therouteshop.com/profiles...ional-airport/

And also,
I am doing the History of St. John's Airport for my grade eight Heritage Fair project, and I recently interviewed the Director of Operations. He was telling me that they are trying to bring back the Moncton flight, but not with Pascan, but Air Canada. Also they are trying to work on getting the LHR flight all year and also trying to get a seasonal flight to Frankfurt on airlines like Condor, Thomas Cook, etc.

Great find!

[J_Murphy]

http://www.vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?...44665&latest=1

The provincial government has announced plans to extend the Robert E. Howlett Memorial Drive, commonly known as the Goulds Bypass all the way to Bay Bulls. The planned route will begin at the current end of the highway at the intersection with the Goulds Main Road, and will continue south to Bay Bulls. The nearly 10 km stretch of highway will run parallel to the current Southern Shore Highway.



The announcement was made this morning in Bay Bulls. Tenders have yet to be called, but it's hoped that construction will get underway sometime this year.

[Townie709]

I'd much rather them finish the gushue highway before they begin another project. They need to finish what thy start instead of half assing a bunch of highway projects and cause them to take multiple years longer than expected and cost twice as much!

[J_Murphy]

Originally Posted by Townie709

I'd much rather them finish the gushue highway before they begin another project. They need to finish what thy start instead of half assing a bunch of highway projects and cause them to take multiple years longer than expected and cost twice as much!

Agreed. I'm curious to know the need for this instead of just widening the road that is there now. I would like to see the proposed route of it...

[Horsell]

While it is only a plan to do some clearing I have to agree with Townie709 that they should finish the Team Gushue part first before starting work on the other end of the road. There is no good excuse, other than money, that the TGH shouldn't be completed to at least Topsail Rd this construction season. But that's not going to happen, unfortunately.

[mrjanejacobs]

I am opposed to this project.

Extending high-speed routes further into the suburbs is, perhaps, the main cause of urban sprawl... Bay Bulls will become a much more attractive location for developers with this news.

[ConundrumNL]

Originally Posted by mrjanejacobs

I am opposed to this project.

Extending high-speed routes further into the suburbs is, perhaps, the main cause of urban sprawl... Bay Bulls will become a much more attractive location for developers with this news.

I think safety may a big factor in the decision to build this extension. Route 10 around Bay Bulls Big Pond can become very dangerous in the winter. Big Pond is also a water supply for the St. John's area, and Route 10 is pretty tight to it's shore line, increasing the risk to the water supply.

I'm thinking the Route 3 extension will take a wider track around the pond, and the majority of traffic heading down the shore will take that.

[Marty_Mcfly]

Originally Posted by mrjanejacobs

I am opposed to this project.

Extending high-speed routes further into the suburbs is, perhaps, the main cause of urban sprawl... Bay Bulls will become a much more attractive location for developers with this news.

I actually agree with this, but at the same time it's like a double-edged sword.

The development in the Bay Bulls area right now is actually crazy (I had no idea until recently how many people were choosing to live there), with a lot of those people commuting back and forth from St. John's to work. The highway between there and the city at the moment isn't sufficient to support the travelling population, yet if you do expand the highway you're opening up for even more development and sprawl. I'm not sure there's a real way to win in this situation.

[mrjanejacobs]

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly

I actually agree with this, but at the same time it's like a double-edged sword.

The development in the Bay Bulls area right now is actually crazy (I had no idea until recently how many people were choosing to live there), with a lot of those people commuting back and forth from St. John's to work. The highway between there and the city at the moment isn't sufficient to support the travelling population, yet if you do expand the highway you're opening up for even more development and sprawl. I'm not sure there's a real way to win in this situation.

Well I know there's a way to win - it's just not realistic in the current political climate.

The road should be built for reasons of existing populations on the southern shore and inhospitable road conditions on the existing one.

However, this will prompt even more sprawl development.

With that said, development restrictions should be put in place, making it less appealing for developers and prospective home-owners - this could come in the form of prohibitive permit fees for the former, or heightened property taxes for new construction for the latter.

Of course, this wouldn't happen in the current policy arrangement with the Town of Bay Bulls within the region. Once again, more sprawl development is good for the Town of Bay Bulls, but a net negative effect on the region.

[Horsell]

No doubt it is a great idea to build this road, especially with the traffic generated by offshore services in Bay Bulls, the only problem is that this is, realistically, a 10 year project at the pace things go around here.

[Horsell]

Does pedestrian traffic fall under this thread? It does now.

With the City now set to spend some coin to study snow clearing, perhaps this would be a good place to put forward some thoughts and ideas.

I will go on record as saying that I do NOT attempt to walk anywhere once the snow flies, being a car centric person, however I will try to keep an open mind.

To me, there are some basic facts that come into play when discussing snow clearing in St. John’s:

First and foremost is that our winters are very unpredictable. Yes, it will snow and at times it will snow a lot. Sometimes we can go weeks without snow, when we get to “enjoy” RDF.

We have hills…lots of steep hills. We have streets that are glorified cart paths…and in fact once were said cart paths.

Money/budgets are finite, or at least have an “acceptable” limit.

Of course there any many other facts and/or opinions to be considered in this broad discussion.

And now for a few of my personal opinions and pet peeves regarding the winter effort.

Topic # 1 – Staffing: Much has been said in recent weeks about the fact that so many operators were laid off before winter was over. Ironically, not much was said when they were hired BEFORE winter began, back in November. Staffing is tough. In order to attract people to the job you have to provide a reasonable period of employment. What should those guarantees be? How much flexibility should be there? I think the City unions are certainly calling the shots on this one. Hands up who is in favor of a certain degree of private contracting out of operations?

Topic # 2 – Snow removal: For full disclosure I will admit to being a suburbanite. I have a big two car driveway to park my cars and a lawn to throw the snow on. When I see what downtown residents have to put up with in terms of digging their cars out with nowhere to put the snow, I feel for them. How can we ease their pain by removing snow as soon as possible? Perhaps it is time to revisit the concept of melting the snow on site, as opposed to trucking. The cost model may have changed in recent years.

Topic # 3 – Sidewalks: Trying to clear some portion of sidewalks properly may be better than trying to clear 134 Km of sidewalks poorly. What gets cleared, when it gets cleared and how it gets cleared needs a serious look. In my travels this winter I have seen sidewalks “cleared” that don’t need to be (with people walking on the opposite side of the street) and NO sidewalks cleared on busy 4 lane roads such as Thorburn Rd. I don’t think it is every pedestrian’s right to expect every foot of sidewalk they may use to be plowed but I do believe a better job can be done to keep them out of harm’s way.

I could probably go on for hours on this topic but perhaps I’ll channel my efforts into a submission to the “consultants”. I have ideas as to how I think things could be fixed without blowing the budget. Ironically, I don’t think I’ve heard one suggestion yet from our elected officials. Where is the “Leadership” on this issue?

[cam477]

The snow clearing topic is an interesting one. Obviously no one wants significantly higher taxes. On the other hand, almost everyone is unsatisfied with the current level of service. Furthermore, depending on where you live and your mode of transportation, different people are going to argue for more resources allocated in ways that best suit them. I think the independent review and public consultation process is going to be really interesting. It may also be a little frustrating .

Here’s my 2 cents:

I think we could do with less resources being allocated towards street widening in the suburbs. I know that sentiment will anger suburbanites. But frankly, very few people commute on foot in Airport Heights, Cowan Heights, Kenmount Terrace, Southlands, etc anyway. A front end loader could be used to clear bus stops so people don’t have to stand on the road. But I don’t think we need the big snow blowers widening roads in these neighborhoods. They have on-street parking bans anyway. Plus, the more narrow streets serve to calm traffic.

I think snow clearing on the sidewalks along main roads (Topsail, Kenmount, Torbay, Thorburn, Portugal Cove, Logy Bay, Prince Philip/Columbus/Macdonald needs to improve dramatically. This is the most critical improvement that’s needed, IMO. These are the streets that a pedestrian is going to be killed on if they don’t improve sidewalk snow clearing because these roads have high speed traffic.

Next they need to take a look at the streets that contain pedestrian traffic naturally and focus on them for a far superior level of service than what is currently provided. 5-10 days (or logner) after the snowfall is not acceptable. Streets like Elizabeth, Merrymeeting, Empire, Military, Freshwater and all major streets in the downtown need to have clear sidewalks. This is not a luxury that entitled pedestrians are demanding. I think this is a basic service no different than motorists demanding that roads be passable. Merrymeeting comes to mind as a particularly ignored street when it comes to sidewalk snow clearing. The area is close to three high schools and a junior high and in addition the neighborhood contains a lot of seniors, university students, new immigrants and lower income people that don’t have cars. I don’t’ know how many times this winter I’ve had to slow almost to a stop to narrowly squeeze past groups of young people or seniors hobbling along in the middle of the icy street. This is clearly a pedestrian neighborhood that needs snow clearing.

I’m not sure how we address the massive delay from when the snow stops to when these sidewalks get cleared. But we have to find a way. You can’t have a significant number of your city’s citizens trapped indoors or risking their lives walking for half the year.

I probably sound like a bit of a righteous urbanite based on the above. But I’m really not. I just think NLers have reduced our standards so low that the notion of human beings that don’t own personal vehicles demanding safe transit along clear sidewalks has become thought of as “entitled”. I know no one on here has said that. But that’s an attitude I’ve encountered.

For full disclosure – I live downtown, but I grew up in the ‘burbs. I also own two cars and from late Nov – late March (maybe late April this year) I commute exclusively using personal automobile. However, in the rest of the year I do walk and cycle a lot.

[Horsell]

Wow, I think I agree 100% with every point you made.

To pick up on the unnecessary street widening, I have seen snow blowers on cul de sacs, totally unnecessary.

Back in early February I also witnessed snow removal operations involving nine trucks waiting in line in a small neighborhood of duplexes just up from the Avalon Mall. I have no idea how far they were going to dump their loads, I hope it wasn’t the harbour.

With respect to sidewalk clearing in some high traffic areas, I think they almost need to follow the plows as closely as possible and certainly not a day or two later. Once again, it points to the proper scheduling and deployment of resources, both manpower and equipment.

[mrjanejacobs]

Major arterials definitely need to be prioritized - for safety reasons, but also for circulation.

To use a biological analogy like blood vessels: the biggest ones, if clogged, can be catastrophic. Because back-ups can cause a snowball of problems hierarchically.

Likewise, I think that ONCE an efficient bus route network (one that relies exclusively on major arterials) is designed, it's important that routes for snow-clearing synchronize with bus routes. It would prioritize buses, but it would also be better for personal automobiles.

Also, heresay: I know someone who worked for the CSJ. According to him, management doesn't know what they're doing. He tells stories of how he is instructed to pick up the snowplow at point A, and move it, at times, kilometres away before he drops the plow to begin the snow-clearing route. That makes very little sense.

[Marty_Mcfly]

^I'm not surprised to hear that. During the major snowstorm we had earlier this week I felt like snow clearing priorities were a little flawed. Our tiny cul de sac was plowed twice and kept passable while major roads like Kenmount were left alone.

[rthomasd]

No mention of Team Gushue Highway Extension in the new Prov Budget.

2013 construction was supposed to be 3 underpasses and these are still not complete, only one of which has any real amount of work done.

I came across a reference that the total cost is now $ 57 M ( from $ 50 M ) with completion in 2016.

Although the Prov Govt hasn't yet made an announcement, I discovered a tender for $4.5 M on the Daily Construction News website for three under/overpasses at Topsail Rd and Blackmarsh Rd, for June-Nov 2014. If the 2013 projects are anything to go by, these won't get finished in 2014. We should see a tender call announcement soon.