Whitecaps MLS news

[mrjauk]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

The national TV ratings are in for the Whitecaps' inaugural game against Toronto, Canada's largest television market: Whitecaps/Toronto: Not A Ratings Hit

Whitecaps: Distant third.

I prefer to take the "half-glass full" view. This was the first ever match between these two teams in MLS, and despite this the broadcast brought in a record number of viewers for an MLS match in Canada.

Second, there was a hell of a lot of competition on the dial with the Leafs playing at home providing a healthy does of competition in Ontario and the second day of the NCAA basketball tournament.

I was at the game on Saturday and was very encouraged by everything--the level of play (which was higher quality than I expected it to be), the enthusiasm of the fans, and the attention of the local media.

I also think that it's extremely encouraging that TSN is now on board the soccer train in Canada. I'm clued into the Toronto sports scene and there were a lot of "soccer-haters" (still are) working high-profile jobs at TSN. Given the fact that TSN has thrown its lot in with the MLS in Canada, ownership has sent its message loud and clear to the on-air personalities to get on board. The transformation amongst some of the talking heads has been nothing short of remarkable.

In my opinion, TSN is the only reason that there is still a viable CFL. I hope that they (along with the clubs) do their part in making Canadian soccer as high a priority amongst sports fans in Canada.

[mrjauk]

The only real drawback from the game-day experience at (t)Empire on Saturday was the field. Soccer should not be played on turf. It really affects the flow/bounce/spin of the ball. I only wish that there was some way real grass could be used for the soccer games in the new BC Place.

[Millennium2002]

I've read on Wikipedia that Seattle has some of the same issues with their turf. So it's not really a unique problem...

[logan5]

I believe there are 4 or 5 teams that use the same turf.

[whalley13]

I think both teams can coincide, as there seasons are complimentary....i think the stats came out already that whitecaps are ahead in corporate support...but I have hard time seeing them matching lions for attendance

[whalley13]

Is there a whitecaps supporters pub in Surrey?

[tovan]

There's no need to be defensive or feel insecure on either side of the argument. It seems like some of you sound threatened by the other. CFL fans have no need to fear the growth of soccer and the MLS in Canada. On the other hand, MLS is growing by leaps and bounds, will be a huge success, and will also become a big part of the sporting landscape and culture.

The fact is both Lions and Whitecaps are here to stay. To say that the Whitecaps will take over the Lions place as #2 in town would be premature as the Lions and the CFL are firmly established entities in the Canadian and Vancouver sporting landscape. The Lions are the oldest pro sports team in town and the CFL, in its current form, has been around since the 1950's. This gives Canadian football a type of continuity and presence that Canadian soccer has lacked for decades. Give MLS and the Whitecaps a decade or two and you will see the same type of TV numbers (for all-Canadian games) and support that CFL and Lions command right now if not sooner.

Though the Whitecaps have been around in one form or another since 1974, they have just returned to the top of the competitive ladder in N. America this year. Add to that the fact that MLS as a league has only been around since 1996. That said, there's every indication that the Whitecaps are going to be a success both on and off the field. With the changing Canadian demographics and the global appeal of soccer fueling interest in the game, the Whitecaps definitely have immense potential and a storied past to build upon.

The TSN TV ratings from last Saturday are misleading, this was the FIRST all-Canadian broadcast for a new team in a relatively new league. Also, one must consider that MLS only has 2 Canadian teams and will likely max out at 3 teams after Montreal joins next year. MLS is still a regional/urban league with a following centered in those 3 cities. It is reasonable to assume that the majority of viewers of the game were from Vancouver or Toronto. I don't think too many people were watching in Riderville Regina. 300,000 is a great audience, all things being considered and bodes well for the future.

The CFL has enjoyed a much longer history in this country. You can't deny or forget that the game has 100 years of history with the Grey Cup. 100 years! The league has 8 teams spread across the country and enjoys a large rural following, particularly in the prairies. With that much history and national coverage and support, it's expected that the CFL has a larger following than MLS. One can assume that much of the viewership of CFL games comes from a national audience. It would also be very interesting to see a regional breakdown of TV audience numbers.

Will the CFL continue to enjoy its important position and stature in Canadian sports and more locally in the form of the BC Lions? Yes it will. Will soccer, MLS, and the Whitecaps continue to develop and firmly establish itself? Yes it will. Will both sports continue to thrive in Vancouver? Yes, there is enough fan interest and corporate dollars for both. Will the Lions drive the Whitecaps out of business or will the Whitecaps usurp the Lions #2 position? No. Having been born in the 80's I can't say for certain but from what I can tell both Whitecaps and Lions enjoyed a similar importance to Vancouverites in the late 1970's and early 1980's. Also, don't dismiss the fact that many MLS fans are also CFL fans and vice-versa (myself included). I tend not to think of the situation as being Canucks #1 and a battle for #2, but rather #2a and #2b with Whitecaps and Lions being both complementary and competitors sharing roughly equal importance and positions. Each with their distinct target demographic and fanbase but also both with overlapping support.

There's room for both the Lions and Whitecaps in Vancouver and both will continue to flourish and grow. In fact, a little competition is good as it will force both organizations to continually improve. The result will simply be a better product for everyone involved and WE as fans, whatever your flavour, will benefit. So let's all chill out, enjoy the show, and celebrate the championships that are to be won!

[Overground]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

The national TV ratings are in for the Whitecaps' inaugural game against Toronto, Canada's largest television market: Whitecaps/Toronto: Not A Ratings Hit

Whitecaps: Distant third.

That was a biased article by a CFL pundit. He seems rather nervous the Whitecaps might be successful.

This Ullrich guy goes on to say that the WFC/TFC match wasn't a ratings hit by comparing it to CFL average audience numbers last year. Oh dear, talk about desperate. The Caps have only played one bloody game! There are only two Canadian clubs in MLS so far, one of which have only been around for 5 years in a league that has only been around for 15 years.

This was the biggest audience a MLS match has had in Canada so far. Up against Hockey Night in Canada on a Sat night. Keep in mind all previous match numbers were based solely on TFC matches as they were the only team.

Oh and not surprising, this Ullrich guy forgot to mention 1.4 million people tuned into watch the match at one point....and again, up against HNIC. To say distant third is really weak.

[Overground]

Originally Posted by mrjauk

The only real drawback from the game-day experience at (t)Empire on Saturday was the field. Soccer should not be played on turf. It really affects the flow/bounce/spin of the ball. I only wish that there was some way real grass could be used for the soccer games in the new BC Place.

I think the only way the could put a grass pitch into BC Place is if they used a modular natural grass system like Greentech - http://www.greentechitm.com/systems/multiuse.asp

The pitch is made up of modular grass pallets that can have damaged pieces rotated out to regrow and then put back in later.

That combined with Terraplas - http://www.terraplas.com/

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by crazyjoeda

I think there's some merit to this article. Vancouver has hosted some major sporting events recently, not to mention the Olympics, the city has the best hockey team in the NHL right now, the BC Lions have also done well in recent year, the Whitecaps are off to a great start on and off the pitch and Vancouver will likely be the primary venue for the FIFA Women's World Cup.

So it's not just about the number of franchises here, but if the NBA came back this city would have a very busy sports scene. And I'm starting to think the NBA could work here; with NBA and NHL seasons being in the Fall/Winter and MLS and CFL in the Spring/Summer the sports market wouldn't be over crowded. If a new NBA team is run like Whitecaps with killer marketing they would have a good chance.

I'd agree with you. I think the city is definitely believing that it can accomplish big things with regards to sport - just as you've stated. I have been a strong proponent of the NBA returning to this city, and I still believe that it will over time. But yeah, the city would not have a shortage of professional games throughout the year (NBA and NHL winter, and CFL and MLS in summer); salivating just thinking about that.

I think what is key would be to learn from the 'Caps. They did one heck of a job marketing their product to the city before it even played it's first game. I think the NBA would be wise (when it returns) to learn from them. Management should learn from the mistakes of the Grizz the first go around. I think the sports culture here is beginning to grow and improve. Only time will tell if that culture will continue to grow, but I think other leagues have Vancouver on their radar of cities to place their franchise/sports business in (NLL - Ravens; will they come back?; NBA - Hornets coming to town? etc). Only time will tell whether this city gets any more franchises coming its way.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by Overground

That was a biased article by a CFL pundit. He seems rather nervous the Whitecaps might be successful.

This Ullrich guy goes on to say that the WFC/TFC match wasn't a ratings hit by comparing it to CFL average audience numbers last year. Oh dear, talk about desperate. The Caps have only played one bloody game! There are only two Canadian clubs in MLS so far, one of which have only been around for 5 years in a league that has only been around for 15 years.

This was the biggest audience a MLS match has had in Canada so far. Up against Hockey Night in Canada on a Sat night. Keep in mind all previous match numbers were based solely on TFC matches as they were the only team.

Oh and not surprising, this Ullrich guy forgot to mention 1.4 million people tuned into watch the match at one point....and again, up against HNIC. To say distant third is really weak.

Maybe the CFL could do a better job marketing. learn from the 'caps.

[agrant]

tovan, I agree!

Originally Posted by Overground

That was a biased article by a CFL pundit. He seems rather nervous the Whitecaps might be successful.

This Ullrich guy goes on to say that the WFC/TFC match wasn't a ratings hit by comparing it to CFL average audience numbers last year. Oh dear, talk about desperate. The Caps have only played one bloody game! There are only two Canadian clubs in MLS so far, one of which have only been around for 5 years in a league that has only been around for 15 years.

This was the biggest audience a MLS match has had in Canada so far. Up against Hockey Night in Canada on a Sat night. Keep in mind all previous match numbers were based solely on TFC matches as they were the only team.

Oh and not surprising, this Ullrich guy forgot to mention 1.4 million people tuned into watch the match at one point....and again, up against HNIC. To say distant third is really weak.

Good points. This game was also streamed over the internet. Wonder what kind of numbers that would yield.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by Vancity

Maybe the CFL could do a better job marketing. learn from the 'caps.

It absolutely could. The Whitecaps' marketing campaign has been far superior to anything that the BC Lions (or any CFL franchise) has ever done. If the BC Lions do not make a better effort on this front and lose some market share as a result, then they will deserve their fate.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by Overground

That was a biased article by a CFL pundit.

That "biased pundit" is also the same person who wrote the article Who's No. 2? Bet on the Whitecaps to beat out the Lions, which showed that the Whitecaps are superior to the BC Lions in securing corporate deals, and which a number of forum members hailed as "proof" that the Whitecaps must have a superior fan base.

But I guess we will be hearing you denounce that article too, since it was written by a "biased pundit."

Originally Posted by Overground

Oh and not surprising, this Ullrich guy forgot to mention 1.4 million people tuned into watch the match at one point.

But he also refrained from mentioning the number of people who tune in to watch a BC Lions game at one point, which can reach as high as 3.4 million.

Originally Posted by Overground

This was the biggest audience a MLS match has had in Canada so far. Up against Hockey Night in Canada on a Sat night.

But the BC Lions can attract 3.4 million viewers while going directly up against the NFL juggernaut on a Sunday, which is broadcasted on network TV.

Originally Posted by Overground

This Ullrich guy goes on to say that the WFC/TFC match wasn't a ratings hit by comparing it to CFL average audience numbers last year. Oh dear, talk about desperate. The Caps have only played one bloody game!

But inaugural, season-opening matches (when buzz, novelty and curiosity are at their peak) often represent high-water marks for attendance and viewer interest, especially when they follow marketing campaigns as slick and sustained as the one expertly executed by the Whitecaps and supported by local media. As the buzz mellows and the losses mount, you might look back fondly on those numbers.

The article was a fair analysis of perfectly accurate numbers. I am not sure what you have a beef with.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

But he also refrained from mentioning the number of people who tune in to watch a BC Lions game at one point, which can reach as high as 3.4 million.

Yes, but the BC Lions draw on a market over twice the size as the Whitecaps, and the numbers also reflect that.

The NBA Grizzlies only averaged 60,000 viewers per game. In those same years, the Raptors drew less than 150,000 per game. Times have of course changed since then (as seen by the CFL numbers), but that does put the MLS's 290,000 in perspective.

I think the Canadian numbers are good on both sides. For the first MLS game to draw around 40% of a CFL game, both average and peak, while being up against the Leafs who were playing one of their most important games of the year, is impressive. And the CFL TV numbers are of course extremely impressive, a total success story that nobody anticipated a few years ago.

Did you know that MLS on ESPN2 only draws an average of 250,000 per game? Not a single game was over 400,000 in 2009 or 2010.

Until soccer grows further, it will continue to aim at filling smaller stadiums (or in the case of shared stadiums, by tarping over seats to control availability). And I'm sure it will be very happy anytime it gets 200,000+ Canadian viewers on TV. That's a huge growth in viewership for the MLS overall.

[twoNeurons]

CFL does have a large rural following, but remember, 80% of Canadians live in an urban setting.

Even IF the Lions becomes #3 in terms of viewership, it will always be #1 in terms of Football fans. What does it matter?

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by Zassk

The NBA Grizzlies only averaged 60,000 viewers per game. In those same years, the Raptors drew less than 150,000 per game...that does put the MLS's 290,000 in perspective.

Just to be clear, my point is not that Saturday's numbers are bad (I actually think they are very good for a soccer match in North America), but that Saturday's numbers clearly underscore the Whitecaps' third-place position behind the BC Lions in terms of fan base, a fact that some wishful-thinking forum members have been unwilling to accept.

Originally Posted by Zassk

For the first MLS game to draw around 40% of a CFL game, both average and peak, while being up against the Leafs who were playing one of their most important games of the year, is impressive.

Remember, the relevant comparison is not between the Whitecaps and the CFL, but between the Whitecaps and the BC Lions. When compared to an average BC Lions game, the Whitecaps' historical, inaugural, season-opening match drew 32% of what the BC Lions draw on an average day. And when compared more properly to a BC Lions' season-opening match (which, last year, drew an average audience of 1.2 million), the Whitecaps drew 24% of what the BC Lions draw.

And remember, the BC Lions often have to go directly up against the NFL and NCAA for fans of the same sport.

Originally Posted by Zassk

Yes, but the BC Lions draw on a market over twice the size as the Whitecaps...

What on earth do you mean? Just as the BC Lions are the only CFL team in British Columbia, so the Whitecaps are the only MLS team in British Columbia. The fact that the BC Lions are called the "BC" Lions while the Vancouver Whitecaps are called the "Vancouver" Whitecaps is meaningless. For that matter, it could be said that since the Whitecaps are the only MLS team in Western Canada, while CFL loyalties are divided between five different teams within the same region, the Whitecaps draw on a market five times the size of the BC Lions.

Originally Posted by Zassk

Did you know that MLS on ESPN2 only draws an average of 250,000 per game? Not a single game was over 400,000 in 2009 or 2010.

Yes, I did know this, unlike some forum members who have been labouring under the illusion that the MLS is much more popular than it really is. Numbers like that (which were generated during a World Cup year no less!) should be very sobering to those who have high hopes for the MLS.

But again, my point has not been that the Whitecaps' ratings are bad. As I said, I think they are very good for a soccer match in North America and that the Whitecaps should be very proud of what has been an excellent start. My only point is that Saturday's numbers put any argument as to which franchise is number two (in terms of fan base) firmly to bed.

Anyways, here is a cool video clip of Steve Nash cheering on the Whitecaps:

• Video Link

[Overground]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

The article was a fair analysis of perfectly accurate numbers. I am not sure what you have a beef with.

That particular article wasn't a fair analysis. It was comparing last year's CFL tv audience numbers with the first and only game of the Whitecaps thus far. He's ridiculously made it seem the Lions are in no danger of the Whitecaps based on those figures.

It's an unfair comparison. Ullrich even goes on at the end to say that it should be a couple years to see what the tv growth would be like to make "a definitive across-the-board comparison". Then why make and one earlier in the article?

It's pretty obvious anyone should have a beef with that, it's poor writing.

And another thing Prometheus, stick with the thread topic instead of turning this into a polarising Whitecaps vs Lions thread, which you seem hellbent on doing.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by Overground

And another thing Prometheus, stick with the thread topic instead of turning this into a polarising Whitecaps vs Lions thread, which you seem hellbent on doing.

The topic is the Vancouver Whitecaps. Discussing the Whitecaps' place in Vancouver's sports scene falls squarely within that topic. Try to grasp that. Then try to deal with it.

Furthermore, if you made an effort to read the thread more attentively, you would see that it's an issue that I have not once initiated. Not once.

[logan5]

The average national tv audience for a Canucks game on CBC is 893 000.(from Canucks.com) The average national tv audience for a Lions game on TSN is 884 000.(from Ullrich article)

Does this mean that the Lions are as popular as the Canucks? No. It means that the Lions audience is concentrated into 18 regular season games vs the Canucks 82 vs the Whitecaps 36.

So a fairer comparison would be to pro rate the Lions audience over a 36 game schedule, which would cut the Lions numbers in half.

This is why the '83 numbers are so telling. If you pro rate that season, the Whitecaps come out far ahead.