Atlantic Highways Thread

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

I'd probably not worry about tolling in-province use. Put the tolls at the ends of the highway; at the outgoing NS, Quebec, Houlton and maybe the Calais borders (if/when that is 4-laned). PEI could get an exemption due to the bridge.

The trick at that point is to then figure out what the appropriate rates would be for travellers.

Without a doubt, the locals would know the ways to bypass the tollbooths trivially; but you don't want to be charging the locals often anyway. You want to be targeting the ones who are going through and are looking for the straight route.

I don't understand why we want to avoid charging locals. I agree that you don't want to charge for truly local traffic (for instance, typical commuting) but I don't see a problem with tolls like the one in NS which is isolated enough that you're only capturing long distance traffic. IMO the location of the NB tolls just west of Salisbury was perfect. You could add additional tolls at the QC and NS borders which do see quite a bit of "local" traffic but those people would know how to avoid the toll.

I drove around Montreal the other day on the recently completed 30 and was pleasantly surprised to see that the toll booths there accept credit cards. As a bonus the lane that accepts credit cards had no line.

[Taeolas]

"Tap and Pay" is common enough now, that most Toll booths should be able to take it, both for CC and for Interact cards that work with it. And an EZ-pass system is standardized so much nowadays, that it should be trivial to get and implement for those that want to use it.

As for Local vs Visitor traffic; I would think the idea is that locals are 'paying' for the highways via their own taxes, so you want to be charging visitor traffic via the tolls. Granted with that in mind, you might want to charge by plate or something, but practically speaking you just net everyone and let the locals avoid if they can/want to.

For Isolated highways, like Cobequid or the Jemseg to Salisbury stretch, it would make sense to just charge everyone since there isn't any real 'local' traffic. (Though that goes against the idea of "local taxes pay for their share"). Still, for those types of stretches, I wouldn't mind a second toll for the convenience factor those highways supply. The rest of NB's TCH has enough places along it, that it wouldn't really make much sense to toll them individually IMO. (Other than the Gagetown stretch).

So, I guess what I'm saying is the following:

* Exit Toll on NB's major vehicle exit points. (TCH at Quebec and NS, along with Woodstock and St Stephen border points). Possibly with a NB-plate exception/discount?

* A further Convenience Toll along the isolated highway stretches, mainly Jemseg to Salisbury, at both ends (or do like Cobequid and build one toll booth in the middle that straddles both directions). Applicable to everyone.

The later I have absolutely no problem with. The Exit Toll (or Entrance Toll), I'm a bit iffier on, both as a Tourism impact and just for traffic flow in general. Maybe if the tolls were somewhat easily avoidable if you know the area (Put them up before the Richmond Corner exit on NB-95 in Woodstock for example) I'd have no problem with them then.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Build a toll booth just south of the Florenceville exit and east of the Jemseg crossing (this way locals can use the crossing as it looks like the old bridge may be closed permanently)
Make each toll 2 bucks.
I picked Florenceville as locals can still use the old TCH which is still safe a pretty design and because there is a lot of workers that commute between Woodstock and Fredericton. Also I wouldn't toll route 1 or as there is a lot of locals commute from Charlotte county to Saint John and there isn't really a safe alternative. The one thing you don't want to do is feel like you're icolating rural NB. This is another reason I wouldn't toll route 7, 8 or 11.

[NBNYer]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

The one thing you don't want to do is feel like you're isolating rural NB. This is another reason I wouldn't toll route 7, 8 or 11.

Long commutes from rural and outlying exurban areas into our cities should be disincentivized as much as possible. Especially in this province. I would have no quarrels with this whatsoever.

[stephan.richard]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

The one thing you don't want to do is feel like you're icolating rural NB. This is another reason I wouldn't toll route 7, 8 or 11.

You are not isolating rural New Brunswick what would happen is the gas tax will be used to upgrade secondary roads and the toll money would be used solely on the highway maintenance including efficient plowing patching and brush cutting.

I am proposing a user based system IF you will use a twinned highway in the province you will have to pay and if that does not happen raise the gas tax 5-10 cents a liter to help pay for those road projects in the province.

[OliverD]

I think gas tax increases are inevitable. Cars and trucks are becoming more fuel efficient every year and will continue to do so. Tolls could mitigate some of those increases.

[JHikka]

Tolls on Highway 1 at QC border, between Jemseg and Salisbury, and at NS border please. Just did the Saint John to Halifax drive this week and I would be totally fine with being captured by only one NB toll.

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Tolls on Highway 1 at QC border, between Jemseg and Salisbury, and at NS border please.....

Perhaps Nova Scotia should move the Cobequid Toll to Fort Lawrence and catch those NB plated vehicles routinely seen on old Trunk 4 through the Wentworth Valley …..that way the Cumberland County residents travelling to Halifax would now go toll free.

Or why not some good Maritime cooperation? A joint Toll-Booth right at the border to get you going both ways.

But Joking aside......I have no problem paying a toll when I think back to what driving the old TCH was like before the Cobequid Pass.

And the toll should be for all..... including the locals. If they don’t want to pay it let them take the old road.

[L'homard]

As stated earlier, B. Gallant announced this afternoon 19.2$M for Hwy 11 at the Shediac end.

[MonctonRad]

Currently staying in Edmundston for the night, on the way home.

The southern half of Autoroute 85 is now nearly complete and joins TCH 2 seamlessly - very very nice!

[stephan.richard]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Currently staying in Edmundston for the night, on the way home.

The southern half of Autoroute 85 is now nearly complete and joins TCH 2 seamlessly - very very nice!

That's awesome news and can't wait to see that project complete in quebec but that is likely to take the next 20-30 years by the pace of it. We managed in the province to have all 520 km's of the TCH done faster than its taking to do 88 km's of highway that's soo disappointing and so many lives lost on the 185.

Hope they finish the 85 soon.

[MonctonRad]

The populated section of the 185 is now essentially complete. It's only the wilderness northern section close to Rivière du Loup that needs to be completed. I imagine this section will be a complete realignment.

Essentially, the hard part is done. The remaining section could likely be finished in a single intensive three year work period.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The populated section of the 185 is now essentially complete. It's only the wilderness northern section close to Rivière du Loup that needs to be completed. I imagine this section will be a complete realignment.

Essentially, the hard part is done. The remaining section could likely be finished in a single intensive three year work period.

Do we know if construction has started on the remaining section? I drove through three weeks ago but I don't recall seeing anything.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by OliverD

Do we know if construction has started on the remaining section? I drove through three weeks ago but I don't recall seeing anything.

Construction has not started. And according to the very vague government map I came across last year, the plan is to twin the whole thing, no relign. I thought it was kind of silly. But I believe the plan is go have to all done by 2018 or something. This phase is the longest one.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

Construction has not started. And according to the very vague government map I came across last year, the plan is to twin the whole thing, no relign. I thought it was kind of silly. But I believe the plan is go have to all done by 2018 or something. This phase is the longest one.

Seems a bit difficult logistically since there are quite a few residences along some of that stretch.

Will be great to finally finish it though. Now if only they would increase the speed limit in Quebec to 110...

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by L'homard

As stated earlier, B. Gallant announced this afternoon 19.2$M for Hwy 11 at the Shediac end.

government press release:

Investment of $19.2 million for Route 11 through Strategic Infrastructure Initiative
02 July 2015

SHEDIAC (GNB) – Work will soon begin on the twinning of Route 11 between Route 15 and the Shediac River thanks to funding from the provincial and federal governments.

“Strategic infrastructure investments are a cornerstone of our government’s plan to create jobs and stimulate New Brunswick’s economy,” said Premier Brian Gallant. “Route 11 is a key transportation corridor for many businesses from all regions throughout the province. These upgrades to Route 11 will facilitate the movement of people and goods which will in turn help us create jobs and will improve highway safety.”

Phase 1 includes twinning 6.8 kilometres of highway from Route 15 to the south side of the Shediac River, construction of one new interchange, as well as a new grade separation and modifications to three other existing interchanges. The 2015-16 provincial capital budget allocated $19.2 million to begin this work through the provincial government’s Strategic Infrastructure Initiative.

The Route 11 twinning project was selected to receive funding for up to half of the eligible costs, to a maximum of $27 million under the federal government’s New Building Canada Plan.

“I am pleased that we are starting construction on Route 11,” said Transportation and Infrastructure Minister Roger Melanson. “This project is of great importance for safety, trucking, trade and travel. It will also boost our economy, both in the short-term through immediate job creation and in the long-term through the building of strategic infrastructure to support economic development.”

Route 11 is a part of the national highway system. The section of highway to be twinned in the Shediac area has a traffic count of about 19,000 vehicles per day with seasonal peaks exceeding this volume. One of the busiest areas is the Shediac interchange at Route 15 where traffic flowing from Moncton, Cap-Pelé, Scoudouc, Prince Edward Island, Shediac and further north meets.

“The federal government is committed to supporting our communities so we can ensure a better quality of life for all Canadians and their families” said Moncton-Riverview-Dieppe MP Robert Goguen. “With the New Building Canada Fund, our government’s support for public infrastructure and strengthening our communities has never been stronger. We are pleased to work with the Government of New Brunswick to invest in Highway 11 and approve other projects under the New Building Canada Fund. These investments are focused on creating jobs, promoting growth, and building strong, prosperous communities across Canada.”

Goguen attended the event for Infrastructure, Communities and Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Denis Lebel.

Tenders are now being prepared for the following work during the 2015 construction season:
- Route 15 westbound lanes realignment and the installment of a large precast concrete box culvert under the west and eastbound lanes of Route 15, including grading and paving of the detour.
- Twin 2.1 kilometres and grade the new Route 11 southbound lanes between Route 134 and the Shediac River.
- A new Route 133 interchange will be constructed on the extension of the current Route 133. As well modifications will be made to the Route 134 northbound ramp, and the service road will be extended to Route 133.
- A new underpass will be built on Route 133.
- A grading, paving, signing and lighting contract will complete the new Route 11 southbound lanes and the Route 134 northbound ramps.

[stephan.richard]

On good news this is non maritime related i just saw in the local french news that the 185 twinning project will be finished in 2021. But thats a heck of a time to twin such a short highway compared to the timeframe it took us to get our twinned highway from border to border.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by stephan.richard

On good news this is non maritime related i just saw in the local french news that the 185 twinning project will be finished in 2021. But thats a heck of a time to twin such a short highway compared to the timeframe it took us to get our twinned highway from border to border.

Like I said I think it has something to do with using the existing route. It would be way quicker to just build a brand new road.

[stephan.richard]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

Like I said I think it has something to do with using the existing route. It would be way quicker to just build a brand new road.

I agree with you on that!!

[MonctonRad]

Here's a photo of the new section of the A85 that I found on the Canada section. This section of the highway was open when I drove through earlier this month.



This is (and will be) a high quality roadway when finally completed.