PHILADELPHIA | The Arthaus @ 311 S. Broad | 542 FT | 47 FLOORS - Page 25

TempleGuy1000 · #**481** Posted **Mar 24, 2016, 1:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1487

so this is the only one where the developer threatened not to start based on the lack of a budget? It doesn't add up- there are likely other issues going on behind the scenes but the budget made for an easy excuse as to why the timeline for starting keeps slipping.

Do you always just make up your own scenario's? Your not the only one on here that does this either. I just think it is odd when everything points to the opposite of what you say. what other issues are going on behind the scene? That they had the balls to announcer another hotel down the same block?

Knight Hospitaller · #**482** Posted **Mar 24, 2016, 2:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1487

so this is the only one where the developer threatened not to start based on the lack of a budget? It doesn't add up- there are likely other issues going on behind the scenes but the budget made for an easy excuse as to why the timeline for starting keeps slipping.

I think that there was some suggestion that the Gallery renovation slipped a bit as well.

ConstructStudent · #**483** Posted **Mar 24, 2016, 2:58 PM**

They are still at the least 5 months away from breaking ground on this project. That's all that i can say at this time.

Knight Hospitaller · #**484** Posted **Mar 24, 2016, 3:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConstructStudent

They are still at the least 5 months away from breaking ground on this project. That's all that i can say at this time.

In my dreams, I can see this from Blatstein's rooftop village.

Chubbs Peterson · #**485** Posted **Mar 24, 2016, 3:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

In my dreams, I can see this from Blatstein's rooftop village.

I think you forgot about the 30 story apartment tower blocking your view of the city. At least you'll have the sun.

Knight Hospitaller · #**486** Posted **Mar 24, 2016, 3:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubbs Peterson

I think you forgot about the 30 story apartment tower blocking your view of the city. At least you'll have the sun.

Nah, but in my dreams it's transparent.

1487 · #**487** Posted **Mar 24, 2016, 6:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

Do you always just make up your own scenario's? Your not the only one on here that does this either. I just think it is odd when everything points to the opposite of what you say. what other issues are going on behind the scene? That they had the balls to announcer another hotel down the same block?

There are a host of other projects (like the Gallery and DL) that started during the budget showdown. This is the only one where the developer said "we may not be able to start until we get the state money". Considering the relatively meager amount of the grant that never made sense to me, especially when you consider how projects are paid for in stages- it's not like someone cuts one check for an entire building up front. In addition, this project has been delayed numerous times and only recently did this state budget excuse surface. So call me skeptical.

1487 · #**488** Posted **Mar 24, 2016, 6:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

I think that there was some suggestion that the Gallery renovation slipped a bit as well.

Gallery construction slipped for totally different reasons. That was about the transition from city property to private and permit issues. PREIT is on the record saying they may de-scope the project if they don't get the RACP grant which tells me they were never actually awarded what they requested. But for all we know that may just be an empty threat to extort public funds from the state.

Knight Hospitaller · #**489** Posted **Mar 24, 2016, 6:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1487

Gallery construction slipped for totally different reasons. That was about the transition from city property to private and permit issues. PREIT is on the record saying they may de-scope the project if they don't get the RACP grant which tells me they were never actually awarded what they requested. But for all we know that may just be an empty threat to extort public funds from the state.

I know that it is not the sole reason, but I was remembering that very statement about reduced scope if the funding didn't come through. I believe that the award was made, however. Likewise, SLS was making value engineering noises if they had to proceed without the money that was awarded. I too cannot make sense of this, based on the available information. If we take them at their word, both developers might've scaled back their ambitions, but I don't suppose that they couldn't proceed. As you note, the funding shouldn't be "make or break" for these projects.

boxbot · #**490** Posted **Mar 24, 2016, 6:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConstructStudent

They are still at the least 5 months away from breaking ground on this project. That's all that i can say at this time.

The budget excuse was just a smokescreen from Dranoff? I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

Knight Hospitaller · #**491** Posted **Mar 24, 2016, 7:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxbot

The budget excuse was just a smokescreen from Dranoff? I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

Might this have more to do with the hotel company? I know they have a few sites, but they don't strike me as a well established series of brands. Marriott they ain't.

boxbot · #**492** Posted **Mar 24, 2016, 7:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

Might this have more to do with the hotel company? I know they have a few sites, but they don't strike me as a well established series of brands. Marriott they ain't.

My understanding was that Dranoff was tinkering with chopping floors and VE modifications. He was the one out there complaining in the press they could not move forward without the budget being resolved.

The whole process of demoing the historically designated building with the promise of a great gleaming tower to start construction several months later raised eyebrows here when it was first mentioned. We were apparently right to be suspicious. The start date has gone from fall 2015 to 1Q 2016 to summer 2016 and now apparently to fall of 2016.

1487 · #**493** Posted **Mar 24, 2016, 8:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

I know that it is not the sole reason, but I was remembering that very statement about reduced scope if the funding didn't come through. I believe that the award was made, however. Likewise, SLS was making value engineering noises if they had to proceed without the money that was awarded. I too cannot make sense of this, based on the available information. If we take them at their word, both developers might've scaled back their ambitions, but I don't suppose that they couldn't proceed. As you note, the funding shouldn't be "make or break" for these projects.

These developers aren't stupid- they float these statements to the press to make the case for their subsidies. Honestly I believe there should be more limitations on which projects can even get the money. A condo project isn't going to create many permanent jobs and it's hard for me to believe a luxury condo/hotel project can't move forward without a subsidy. But he isn't going to say that and dampen his chances for getting the money.

Knight Hospitaller · #**494** Posted **Mar 24, 2016, 8:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1487

These developers aren't stupid- they float these statements to the press to make the case for their subsidies. Honestly I believe there should be more limitations on which projects can even get the money. A condo project isn't going to create many permanent jobs and it's hard for me to believe a luxury condo/hotel project can't move forward without a subsidy. But he isn't going to say that and dampen his chances for getting the money.

No argument from me on the selections for some of these subsidies. The Divine Lorraine and Fairmount projects will help transform a neighborhood. Maybe even resurrecting the Gallery can be seen as a boost to a flagging Market East. S. Broad is hardly an "opportunity zone."

Philly-Drew · #**495** Posted **Mar 25, 2016, 2:28 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1487

so this is the only one where the developer threatened not to start based on the lack of a budget? It doesn't add up- there are likely other issues going on behind the scenes but the budget made for an easy excuse as to why the timeline for starting keeps slipping.

I haven't read a single source that said the budget hold up was directly related to this project.

It seemed like this project was a go, and they did the demo. Then, nothing. Something happened somewhere. It doesn't add up.

Cro Burnham · #**496** Posted **Mar 25, 2016, 2:56 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly-Drew

Then, nothing. Something happened somewhere. It doesn't add up.

Maybe someone figured out that a 600' ultra luxury building doesn't pencil out at a kind of out of the way location like this.

hammersklavier · #**497** Posted **Mar 25, 2016, 3:04 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly-Drew

I haven't read a single source that said the budget hold up was directly related to this project.

It seemed like this project was a go, and they did the demo. Then, nothing. Something happened somewhere. It doesn't add up.

Dranoff literally said as much to the WSWNA when the first Hyde presentation was held.

Usually Dranoff is very, very good at playing the subsidy game so what surprised me most during that meeting was his claim that the Hyde would be 100% privately funded.

Urbanthusiat · #**498** Posted **Mar 25, 2016, 5:31 AM**

I do recall reading that this had RCAP funding from somewhere. Still, I dot think that was the problem as he probably could have gotten a bridge loan of the money was guarantee as he said. I'm wondering if he had trouble selling condos (hence the interior "redesign" to allow for different units), and then he still couldn't sell that many. I can't imagine SLS would want to mix with rental, only condos but if the condos don't sell the whole thing is a bust.

1487 · #**499** Posted **Mar 25, 2016, 12:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

Maybe someone figured out that a 600' ultra luxury building doesn't pencil out at a kind of out of the way location like this.

That doesn't make much sense when you consider how close this is to Symphony House. whatever the issues are I don't think they are related to the notion that it's tough to attract buyers at this intersection.

boxbot · #**500** Posted **Mar 25, 2016, 1:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly-Drew

I haven't read a single source that said the budget hold up was directly related to this project.

Straight from the horse's mouth:

"We want to start in the summer, and we're not going to be able to do that unless this money becomes available pretty soon." - Carl Dranoff 2/24/2016