The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[eemy]

Metrolinx has also indicated that they plan on opening more stations within Toronto once the lines are electrified.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The electrified GO system will not put Toronto amongst it's peers, not even close.

Even with an electrified system, owning the rail corridors, and even 15 minute all day service, the GO network will never be anything more than commuter rail. It will be more convenient for 905ers who won't have be a s constricted by poor service but the service will mean next to nothing for Torontonians. Presto won't make a hoot of difference either.

Presto sound nice and makes it seem like Metrolinx is actually doing something but all it is a simpler way or paying the same fare. So if you are a low income person instead of going broke looking for change you are going broke with you Presto card. Even fare integration won't be good enough as the system is extremely expensive especially in the city itself.

Electrification will save on fuel costs, the trains are quieter, and they have faster acceleration which are all very good things but that fundamentally does not change the idea that Metrolinx considers GO Rail to be a 905 service. Proof is in the pudding.......fares for Toronto to Union trips are wildly and disproportionately expensive compared to 905 areas.

As far as GO is concerned, Toronto is that piece of land the suburbanites have to travel thru to get to Union and nothing more.

Okay, where do I even start...
1) Metrolinx is adding more stations within the 416
2) You're subscribing to the Toronto-stops-at-Steeles fallacy
3) TTC within the 416 is quite affordable. $2.60 for a one way-trip. It's $2.77 in Ottawa, $2.29 in Kingston.
4) Do you have any idea how f'ing complicated Toronto's fare system is when you factor in the billions of different systems and how the transfers between them work? PRESTO is a godsend.

[ssiguy]

The TTC fares are pricey but not ridiculously so but GO is not transferable so your one way trip from Weston goes from $3 to $8 one way.

Yes I have always said that Toronto should make use of it's current rail infrastructure. Very few cities in NA enjoy Toronto's enviable position of not only having a large rail network but also one that is mostly owned by the transit authorities.

I agree with electrification due to it's many benefits and it is nothing but good news that frequencies are going to be greatly increasing and be bi-directional all day..........that helps evolve from just a 9 to 5 downtown commuter service.

The problem is a basic one and is why Mississauga with 800,000 has more riders on GO rail than Toronto's 2.7 million...........it's too expensive for inner city travel. GO goes out of it's way to make sure that Torontonians don't use the service.

As an example, a trip from Union to Bloor West station is about 6km and cost a staggering $5 yet to go from Union to Burlington which is 60km is $10. In other words the person going to Bloor is paying about 85 cents per km while the guy going to Burlington is paying about 17 cents per km.

GO is not a regular transit service like the TTC in that it is suppose to be distance based.........the further you go, the more you pay. I understand that they can't get the fare down to absolute equality in distance but that is a grotesque warping of the fare system. They do this because goes out of it's way to make sure people in East Toronto don't take GO as opposed to the TTC.

That is absolutely unfair to Torontonians and their taxes..............they pay the same tax dollars for the service they should enjoy the same benefits.

GO in many ways is a middle/upper geared transit because those on fixed income or low wage earners certainly can't afford those kind of fares. The fares they charge Torontonians are so wildly expensive compared to 905 fares on a per km basis that it is obvious GO considers itself a 905 service.

GO could vastly improve mobility in the GTA if it were run more like a regular transit system.

In order for GO to really become a major mover and backbone system it should not be charging any extra fares at all. If you live in Burlington and you travel in Burlington then the fare should be exactly the same. Same as the TTC. It shouldn't matter how or when you decide to go from A to B, the fare should be the same.

If someone is in at Union and wants to go to Malvern it's within TTC boundaries so Metrolinx and Toronto shouldn't care less how they get there. Whether they choose bus, LRT, streetcar, LRT, subway, commuter rail, SRT, or horse & buggy...........the fare should be exactly the same. That is how you entice people onto transit, by giving people more affordable options not fewer.

[Innsertnamehere]

given how prominently the province advertised the inside toronto time savings during the election, i doubt you have too much to worry. Metrolinx isn't going to kill its own system by not changing inner city fares. Fare pricing is something that tends to be worked out closer to opening though, so come back and ask that question in 2016 or 2017. (they still haven't worked out how the Spadina extension will work for students transferring at highway 407 or VMC to simply get to York U)

[GreaterMontréal]

Montreal inaugurates new traffic monitoring centre
Centre de gestion de mobilité urbaine (CGMU)

The Centre de gestion de mobilité urbaine is a nerve centre that monitors live images from 200 cameras at key intersections of the city. The centre also makes use of traffic monitoring tools to measure the flow of traffic, and alert staff when there is a backlog somewhere on the network.

The centre will also be able to control message boards that will be placed throughout the city to give information about key routes.

Among the streets already being monitored are René-Lévesque Blvd., Pie IX Blvd., Papineau Ave., Henri-Bourassa Blvd., and Marcel-Laurin Blvd.

“If there is a bus that’s running late, for example, we can adjust the traffic lights so that the bus gets priority green lights,”

Already up and running, the centre will be staffed 16 hours per day, five days a week by this fall. The city plans to make this a round-the-clock operation within the next three years. By then, there will be at least 700 cameras monitoring the city’s streets.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/...ic+monitoring+centre/10185964/story.html

[1overcosc]

Ottawa is proposing to adopt the name 'O-Train' for its entire rail system. The existing O-Train line will be renamed Trillium Line.

So in 2018 Ottawa will have the O-Train system consisting of two lines: the Confederation Line and the Trillium Line.

[Chadillaccc]

That is pretty cool!

I'm not sure if my question was answered before (sorry if it was) but are there any short - mid term plans to convert the current O-train to electric? I know they're getting new diesel powered rolling stock, so I would guess not?

[Airboy]

McKewan Station on the soon to be open NorthWest line in Edmonotn

Able to get some shots of what I think is the nicest station in town.

[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

Bike rack at Kingsway Station

[IMG][/IMG]

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

City is building bike lanes along Cannon St, today they've installed rubber barriers, planter boxes coming next week


CityofHamilton
https://twitter.com/cityofhamilton


CityofHamilton
https://twitter.com/cityofhamilton


CityofHamilton
https://twitter.com/cityofhamilton

The City has added the planter boxes today! The bike lane opens tomorrow, just in time for Supercrawl.


https://twitter.com/cityofhamilton
CityofHamilton


https://twitter.com/cityofhamilton
CityofHamilton


https://twitter.com/cityofhamilton
CityofHamilton

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

That is pretty cool!

I'm not sure if my question was answered before (sorry if it was) but are there any short - mid term plans to convert the current O-train to electric? I know they're getting new diesel powered rolling stock, so I would guess not?

Upgrading the O-Train to a full metro-LRT like the Confederation Line is, including electrification & full double tracking, remains on the city's long-term to-do list, but it's not part of the funded plans through 2031.

tl;dr: It's a long-term goal.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The TTC fares are pricey but not ridiculously so but GO is not transferable so your one way trip from Weston goes from $3 to $8 one way.

Yes I have always said that Toronto should make use of it's current rail infrastructure. Very few cities in NA enjoy Toronto's enviable position of not only having a large rail network but also one that is mostly owned by the transit authorities.

I agree with electrification due to it's many benefits and it is nothing but good news that frequencies are going to be greatly increasing and be bi-directional all day..........that helps evolve from just a 9 to 5 downtown commuter service.

The problem is a basic one and is why Mississauga with 800,000 has more riders on GO rail than Toronto's 2.7 million...........it's too expensive for inner city travel. GO goes out of it's way to make sure that Torontonians don't use the service.

As an example, a trip from Union to Bloor West station is about 6km and cost a staggering $5 yet to go from Union to Burlington which is 60km is $10. In other words the person going to Bloor is paying about 85 cents per km while the guy going to Burlington is paying about 17 cents per km.

GO is not a regular transit service like the TTC in that it is suppose to be distance based.........the further you go, the more you pay. I understand that they can't get the fare down to absolute equality in distance but that is a grotesque warping of the fare system. They do this because goes out of it's way to make sure people in East Toronto don't take GO as opposed to the TTC.

That is absolutely unfair to Torontonians and their taxes..............they pay the same tax dollars for the service they should enjoy the same benefits.

GO in many ways is a middle/upper geared transit because those on fixed income or low wage earners certainly can't afford those kind of fares. The fares they charge Torontonians are so wildly expensive compared to 905 fares on a per km basis that it is obvious GO considers itself a 905 service.

GO could vastly improve mobility in the GTA if it were run more like a regular transit system.

In order for GO to really become a major mover and backbone system it should not be charging any extra fares at all. If you live in Burlington and you travel in Burlington then the fare should be exactly the same. Same as the TTC. It shouldn't matter how or when you decide to go from A to B, the fare should be the same.

If someone is in at Union and wants to go to Malvern it's within TTC boundaries so Metrolinx and Toronto shouldn't care less how they get there. Whether they choose bus, LRT, streetcar, LRT, subway, commuter rail, SRT, or horse & buggy...........the fare should be exactly the same. That is how you entice people onto transit, by giving people more affordable options not fewer.

That's partly true in the sense that GO is meant to be a longer distance express service rather than local transit and that is how it was both designed and priced. But the major reason that there's less use in Toronto is that Toronto doesn't need GO as much as Mississauga does. Toronto has other transit services that are much more frequent and direct including both subway and streetcars for rail, and high frequenmcy buses. So even if the trip on GO would be faster, the fact that most users would have to wait much longer for the infrequent trains means the TTC service is a better option. Mississauga doesn't have as many options so they're stuck using the infrequent train service. This would still be true if GO charged the same face for service within Toronto as the TTC. Sure more people within Toronto would be using GO than there are now, but I'm sure Mississauga would still be using it a lot more.

I do agree that it's silly to make GO electrification into something it's not. I laugh whenever someone says "GO RER" because the electrified GO won't have much if anything in common with Paris's RER network. The RER differs from normal commuter rail in that it runs underground like a subway through the central city with multiple stops rather than a single station and provides frequent express service within town. Each line has service of a train around every 2-3 minutes at peak which is as good or better than most metro systems, and the busiest RER line has more riders than GO and TTC subway combined. At 4tph per line, electrified GO will be much better but still firmly commuter rail and little like the RER, Berlin S-Bahn, or other long distance metro systems

[WhipperSnapper]

Paying 5 bucks to go from Danforth & Main to Union in about seven minutes is great value in my books. TTC is about 40 minutes. Driving pushes 20 minutes.

[matt602]

The Cannon cycle track is looking great. I'm definitely gonna use it this weekend a lot.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by matt602

The Cannon cycle track is looking great. I'm definitely gonna use it this weekend a lot.

But why should they pay extra?

My point is that if you are going from A to B, it shouldn't matter which technology you choose to take if the distance is the same. Why is Finch such a busy corridor but traffic drops off immensely at the connections to Spadina ext or direct connection to Yonge? It's because the vast majority are heading downtown or at least to the inner city. If they live in Humber why not just go to the nearest GO station and take the much faster and more comfortable GO train....because they can't afford it!

This is not only a transportation issue but also one of equality. If you have the money you can take GO but if you are low/fixed income then you have to allow twice as much time to get to the same destination hyperventilating the whole way there.

If they want Torontonians to embrace transit they not only have to make it fast and convinient but also affordable.

The electrification and more frequent service will be nice but won't make a hoot of difference to most Torontonians because they still can't afford to take it. To lower income people the electrification and more trains only means they get to watch more trains go by that they can't afford to take.

If they want GO to become a true regional mover then they have to make it accessible to everyone.

This is the reason so many are pissed off with the UPX..........great service but only if you can afford it and if you can't then all your tax dollars have done is pay for people that are in less of a need of a transit subsidy than you are.

GO should be a regional system to connect the GTA and it has the ability to become precisely that but only when it is run like a local transit system. Coordination is mandatory but the fares should be the same. Hundreds of thousands of potential riders should not be discriminated against due to their income.

Go should be coordinated and run regionally but the fares should be locally dictated. Wherever you are in the GTA your regular fare should apply to your boundary areas regardless of how you choose to get their.

Look at the Mississauga Transitway. Certainly an excellent investment and they seem to have done a very good job on making this a true rapid transit system in all senses of the word. That said, the lunacy of getting on at one station and going to another is standard fare for Miss buses but if a GO bus goes by you pay extra. It's not any faster, takes the exact same route, same stops, both are buses, same speed, but the Green bus will cost more than the orange one due 100% because of bureaucracy.

Who cares what colour the bus is? If you are going the same place why should you have to pay more for one than the other? Same as GO Rail.........if you are in the same transit jurisdiction who cares whether it's a commuter bus, streetcar, LRT, regular city bus, subway or SRT?

One city = one fare is how GO will become a true mass/rapid transit system for the masses and it won't require an internet connection to figure out your fare.

[Beedok]

A faster service costing more doesn't seem like a huge crime to me. Yes, it would be nice to fix it, but GO doesn't want all its trains being filled up with people hoping around on short cheap trips in Toronto leaving its trains 3/4s empty when they exit into the suburbs while the thousands of suburban commuters now have struggle with their regional transportation system being grabbed by Torontonians who's own city should be handling internal transit (at least in the eyes of folks elsewhere on the GO line). GO is meant to move people long distances so it wants to discourage people from effectively wasting space. It's not a perfect system, but until the majority of people stop using cars and transit gets actual funding we aren't going to have a perfect service so let it do what it can do best. Or do you prefer the idea of extra pollution as thousands of folks in the suburbs have to switch to cars because the trains are filled with people going one station and then GO has to raise fees to make up for lost funds anyway? The TTC is meant to serve Toronto, GO is meant to serve the region.

[Aylmer]

Well the easy solution for that is to have urban lines with many stops, a shorter route and high frequencies and suburban lines with longer routes, fewer stops and lower frequencies.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Well the easy solution for that is to have urban lines with many stops, a shorter route and high frequencies and suburban lines with longer routes, fewer stops and lower frequencies.

There's only so much room on the tracks and at Union though.

[caltrane74]

Another purpose of RER for Toronto is to get all those bloody suburban commuters off our subways whenthey aare trying to get downtown. That alone will improve the experience for TORONTO commuters, or at least prevent it from getting any worst.

[WhipperSnapper]

You pay double fare fot the TTC's downtown express buses. I don't see cost as being that big of an issue. You see a lot of people making 35k a year working in a bank's dungeon getting off at Danforth Go Station and heading north to the affordable high rise apartments. It's more of an awareness issue to tens of thousands that would benefit from taking the GO train instead. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone making less than 100k heading south from that station.

Originally Posted by ssiguy

But why should they pay extra?

My point is that if you are going from A to B, it shouldn't matter which technology you choose to take if the distance is the same. Why is Finch such a busy corridor but traffic drops off immensely at the connections to Spadina ext or direct connection to Yonge? It's because the vast majority are heading downtown or at least to the inner city. If they live in Humber why not just go to the nearest GO station and take the much faster and more comfortable GO train....because they can't afford it!

This is not only a transportation issue but also one of equality. If you have the money you can take GO but if you are low/fixed income then you have to allow twice as much time to get to the same destination hyperventilating the whole way there.

If they want Torontonians to embrace transit they not only have to make it fast and convinient but also affordable.

The electrification and more frequent service will be nice but won't make a hoot of difference to most Torontonians because they still can't afford to take it. To lower income people the electrification and more trains only means they get to watch more trains go by that they can't afford to take.

If they want GO to become a true regional mover then they have to make it accessible to everyone.

This is the reason so many are pissed off with the UPX..........great service but only if you can afford it and if you can't then all your tax dollars have done is pay for people that are in less of a need of a transit subsidy than you are.

GO should be a regional system to connect the GTA and it has the ability to become precisely that but only when it is run like a local transit system. Coordination is mandatory but the fares should be the same. Hundreds of thousands of potential riders should not be discriminated against due to their income.

Go should be coordinated and run regionally but the fares should be locally dictated. Wherever you are in the GTA your regular fare should apply to your boundary areas regardless of how you choose to get their.

Look at the Mississauga Transitway. Certainly an excellent investment and they seem to have done a very good job on making this a true rapid transit system in all senses of the word. That said, the lunacy of getting on at one station and going to another is standard fare for Miss buses but if a GO bus goes by you pay extra. It's not any faster, takes the exact same route, same stops, both are buses, same speed, but the Green bus will cost more than the orange one due 100% because of bureaucracy.

Who cares what colour the bus is? If you are going the same place why should you have to pay more for one than the other? Same as GO Rail.........if you are in the same transit jurisdiction who cares whether it's a commuter bus, streetcar, LRT, regular city bus, subway or SRT?

One city = one fare is how GO will become a true mass/rapid transit system for the masses and it won't require an internet connection to figure out your fare.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Well the easy solution for that is to have urban lines with many stops, a shorter route and high frequencies and suburban lines with longer routes, fewer stops and lower frequencies.

The newest documentation from Metrolinx on GO RER suggest they're proposing exactly that for the Lakeshore & Kitchener lines:

Lakeshore would be divided into 3 services:
-A express service for Durham Region that would travel from Bowmanville to Pickering making all stops in Durham Region, then travel non-stop from Pickering to downtown Toronto (skipping stops in Toronto)
-A similar service in the west that would travel from Hamilton to Oakville making all stops in Hamilton & Halton Region then travel non-stop from Oakville to downtown Toronto (skipping stops in Mississauga & Toronto)
-The central segment between Oakville & Pickering through Toronto & Mississauga would be served by a local route that would make all stops, including infill stops. There would be timed transfers at Oakville & Pickering.

Kitchener line would be divided into 2 services by a similar logic:
-An express service that would travel through Kitchener, Guelph, Georgetown, then travel non-stop to Union (skipping stops in Brampton & Toronto)
-A local service that would make all stops in Toronto & Brampton

This is all preliminary so that may not happen. But that's what they're looking at so far. Personally I don't think its feasible as I can't see there being enough track room for all that (although from what I heard all grade separations & bridge replacements over GO lines have protected for lots of extra track). But we'll see what happens.

I like the proposed Lakeshore separation. The Kitchener separation seems awkward to me though, I don't like the idea of Kitchener->downtown Brampton requiring a transfer especially given downtown Brampton's role as a mobility hub with the BRT/LRT links to Mississauga & Vaughan.