noirish Los Angeles

[ethereal_reality]

One of the earliest photographs of Chinatown that I've come across. Notice the orange groves as well.



found on ebay some time ago.

[SierraMadre]

another "then and now" of the Pasadena Freeway

[Los Angeles Past]

Originally Posted by SierraMadre

I have always been fascinated by "then and now" photos depicting locations which have graphic visuals of what was and what is.
Now...first my apologies. These had to have been posted before. But just in case I'd like to make sure everyone has had a chance to see them (twice?) so...I know this is risky, but here goes....:

I thought these looked familiar. The original source for these photos is here. Credit where credit is due and all that...

-Scott

[SierraMadre]

I would have given credit had I known the source of these images.

[GaylordWilshire]

LAPL

The credit police...

[Sebisebster]

[ethereal_reality]

That's fine SierraMadre....just go back to your post and click on the edit button (lower right) and paste in this link.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...4618.htmlstory

I appreciate everything that you have contributed to the thread.
It's people like you that keep this wonderful forum alive. Long live 'noirish Los Angeles'!!

[rick m]

Doing deep research for Arcadia Press book and 2010 Lavender Los Angeles exhibit we deduced that the transgender/hustler bar John Rechy named in City Of Night as the 1-2-3 (on Spring St nr 3rd) wouldve been the 326 - Rechy confirmed that he'd changed its name (as well as a bar on Santa Monica's Oceanwalk) purely for the safety of their clientele and proprietors- Therefore we had one of the city's premier he-man establishments morphing into a verry different scene a decade or so after Jim Jeffries closed. On LAPL photo database search for the "men in drag" images for another nearby drag club. Happy LGBT Month !

[ethereal_reality]

So you're saying Jim Jeffries' Gentlemen's Club eventually became a gay bar?
Stranger things have happened...especially in Los Angeles.

It would be great to hear from John Rechy directly. Is that possible?



__________

[rick m]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

So you're saying Jim Jeffries' Gentlemen's Club eventually became a gay bar?
Stranger things have happened...especially in Los Angeles.

It would be great to hear from John Rechy directly. Is that possible?



__________

He met just once with our research group's head guy - confirmed also a bit more about the Cooper's Donut stand riot that he had witnessed- but did not show up at the gala opening nor any of the presentations held over a ten day period- The physical exhibit has since appeared @ WEHO CityHall and recently @ L.A.CityHall during Pride Month - Get the Arcadia book-for a real eye opener. So many goodies were unearthed in 18 months of research of preStonewall L.A.- My access to uncatalogued goodies @ OneArchives was the key - it was a blast leading a bunch of G/L youth thru all this discovery--Someday the plan to assemble a standing G/L history museum in town-- Even Bunker Hill had such to input--I earlier had fed history material to Stuart Timmons - whatever Iwas finding whilst poring thru L A Times archives on Proquest-some of which made it into GayL.A. as well as Lavender Los Angeles (title blurted out by me that everyone deemed to be used!) Whew---Later!

[Los Angeles Past]

Originally Posted by Sebisebster
SierraMadre, thank you, thank you, and thank so much for sharing those pics. As you have already noticed, there are so many followers on this thread who really love and appreciate the fascinating 'then and now' game.
I'm particularly fascinated with Bunker Hill and your 'then and now' pics are awesome. I can't wait to see some more.
Muchas gracias, SierraMadre, de todo corazón.

Aquí te dejo ver una aportación mía ----> Here's my contribution. It's a repost, but it's good to see it again.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I'm sorry, but what you call "my contribution" is actually my photo, from my blog post.

Please do not take credit for content that you did not create.

Some may think that giving credit is a trivial or even a laughing matter, but it's not. Unfortunately, there do seem to be a lot of people on this thread who are either ignorant of or are simply ignoring Skyscraperpage.com's simply-stated rules for third-party content attribution. Here they are again for those who apparently need a reminder.

==========



==========

I'm not the "credit police," but I do firmly believe in giving credit where credit is due insofar as it is possible. The fact is that a significant majority of this thread consists of content that the posters themselves did not create, yet a few posters here seem to think that giving proper credit according to this website's rules is not worth bothering with. You should bother, though, because the owners of Skyscraperpage.com could lock or even delete this whole thread at any time for any single instance of copyright abuse, and that would be the end of it.

When it comes down to it, it's your choice whether or not to credit your posts properly. All I'm saying is that I believe we should all follow the rules here to the best of our ability. If you really can't find the ultimate source for a picture, though, that's entirely cool and forgivable – I've posted unattributed images, myself, from time to time – but I think it's important that we should at least TRY to provide the best recent source information that we can here. Historical accuracy demands no less, doesn't it?

-Scott

[gsjansen]

i am with scott on this one big time! the moderators of the skyscraperpage forums, have prevoulsy posted in this thread about the importance of not only giving credit to the original source, but also providing a link to the original source web page.

even if you upload an image to your photo account, you still need to give the original source location with a link of where the photograph originally came from.

they make it clear, that if you don't know, then don't post.

the consequences that scott mentioned are very real, and it would be a travesty, if this incredible source of los angeles history which is for the betterment of everybody got locked down.


we wouldn't want this to happen...........

Culver City police enforcing the law of tha land 1950


Source: LAPL

[GaylordWilshire]

Originally Posted by Los Angeles Past

I'm not the "credit police"
-Scott

Warner Bros.
Butcha ARE Scott, ya ARE the credit police. At least that is the net effect. And while
everything you say and so helpfully spell out is true--that the thread could be shut down
etc--it seems to me that one equally sure way to accomplish this is to be doctrinaire with
newcomers. It took me quite awhile to figure out how to add credit lines--it's not like
there's a test of one's computer skills to sign up for the site. Our esteemed founder,
Ethereal, handled Sierra Madre's innocent omission exactly as it should have been.
Thank you, e_r, SM, Sebisebster--and Scott--for all your terrific contributions.

Let's lighten up!
LAPL

Now about those gay bars....

[rick m]

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire

Warner Bros.
Butcha ARE Scott, ya ARE the credit police. At least that is the net effect. And while
everything you say and so helpfully spell out is true--that the thread could be shut down
etc--it seems to me that one equally sure way to accomplish this is to be doctrinaire with
newcomers. It took me quite awhile to figure out how to add credit lines--it's not like
there's a test of one's computer skills to sign up for the site. Our esteemed founder,
Ethereal, handled Sierra Madre's innocent omission exactly as it should have been.
Thank you, e_r, SM, Sebisebster--and Scott--for all your terrific contributions.

Let's lighten up!
LAPL

Now about those gay bars....

Where to begin on old downtown's gay scene-- Well prior to WW2 there was furrier-owned Maxwell's (in'56 city st.dir.as M Cocktail Lounge) that startd qietly on first floor of the Currier Bldg(adj to east side of Bradbury Bldng)which is absurd cuz city's detective/vice dept was ensconced inside that blng on 2 floors) Maxwell's was THE mjr spot for the many occupants of the surrounding hotel-apts - But it eventually became rowdier - so the dressier element found the Crown Jewel (n/e corner of 8th & Olive) more to their liking.The owner there had a large open basement bar area ringed by a mezzanine and a grand-entrance-providing central stairway for the dandy crowd. Other bars(usually another dozen or so at any one time) were definitely tougher scenes/locations.Dancing was not even possible until the 60s started. Pershing Square's dense banana groves had its own outdoor fans since the depression - others met more discretely at the central fountain - The park had 2 tavers on the east side on Hill (Red Horse andBlue Rail) and the big Donut Chalet(5th n Hill) and a City Chicken hangout for the under 21 set- and Rechy verified that the Googies Coffeeshop on corner of Olive n 5th in the sometimes gay-run San Carlos Hotel was a spot to relax and cruise .Some hotels in their doddering years eagerly took in male trysting pairs

[SierraMadre]

So, let me see if I have this right:
If I have an image that I am uncertain of it's original photographer-publsher, etc., then don't post it.
Right? That's what I'm hearing.
I have several boxes of negatives and prints from 40-50 years old, or more.
I have collected them over the years a purchased them from garage sales of people have given them to me.
They are not magazines, newspapers or books. Many are just discarded family photos which just happen to have been taken in Los Angeles. They are simply aging photographs that I have scanned.
Maybe photographed by a housewife, maybe by a professional photographer. I'll never know.
None of us will never know. It's just a photo with no name, no nothing written on it whatsoever.

I would never ever not give credit for any posts unless I just didn't know.

Look, I'm a retired professional photographer....50 years worth.
I get to see my personal images splattered all over the internet everyday without any credit to me.
So don't give me any lectures about the decency of "credit where credit is do".
I've been here three weeks and have been trying to fit in with all of you seasoned "Noir Fans".
So, whats the word on these boxes of photos that have no writing on them?
Keep them to myself? Or should I just say...."photographer unknown", or leave them in a box for my cat to sleep on?
Can you imagine what history books, biographies, etc. would look like if every single image that had no information on who took the photo were never published? Think about it.

[rick m]

Originally Posted by rick m

Where to begin on old downtown's gay scene-- Well prior to WW2 there was furrier-owned Maxwell's (in'56 city st.dir.as M Cocktail Lounge) that startd qietly on first floor of the Currier Bldg(adj to east side of Bradbury Bldng)which is absurd cuz city's detective/vice dept was ensconced inside that blng on 2 floors) Maxwell's was THE mjr spot for the many occupants of the surrounding hotel-apts - But it eventually became rowdier - so the dressier element found the Crown Jewel (n/e corner of 8th & Olive) more to their liking.The owner there had a large open basement bar area ringed by a mezzanine and a grand-entrance-providing central stairway for the dandy crowd. Other bars(usually another dozen or so at any one time) were definitely tougher scenes/locations.Dancing was not even possible until the 60s started. Pershing Square's dense banana groves had its own outdoor fans since the depression - others met more discretely at the central fountain - The park had 2 tavers on the east side on Hill (Red Horse andBlue Rail) and the big Donut Chalet(5th n Hill) and a City Chicken hangout for the under 21 set- and Rechy verified that the Googies Coffeeshop on corner of Olive n 5th in the sometimes gay-run San Carlos Hotel was a spot to relax and cruise .Some hotels in their doddering years eagerly took in male trysting pairs

Just back frm Sundays Hwd farmers mkt - smack dab centered @ Selma n Cosmo where 2 1930s gay speakeasies once were- B.B.B.s and Jimmy's Backyard - also the just closed Spotlite and Ivar St.'s eurodive Sewers Of Paris/in basement of Ivar Theatre!--Anyhoo- the 3 downtown hotels noted as okay to use in very early gay guides were the Lankershim once on 7th, the Hayward, San Carlos "adverts in 1970 Advocate" and the Dover Hotel&bar next to tThe Waldorf -500 block of S.Main-LAPD murder scene of a hustler..

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire

LAPL

Beer and Ritz Crackers, an interesting combination.

Originally Posted by rick m

Get the Arcadia book-for a real eye opener.

I actually looked through this book some weeks ago while I was at Vroman's in Pasadena. It's a fascinating book. I don't recall it mentioning this, though:

Photo by me

This supposedly is the oldest bathhouse in Los Angeles, established in 1905, corner of 4th and Los Angeles Streets. As far as I know, it's still in business (I've never been to it myself) and is now called the KLYT bathhouse. But it used to known as the Palace Turkish Baths. This is from a 1967 LA phone book:

gaytubs.com

Here it is in the context of the surrounding blocks. I took these photos on 12/31/09. The building under construction on the right is now complete (it's a mixed-use commercial/residential building).

Photo by me

And for historic context, that mixed-use building pales greatly in comparison to what used to be there--- the Westminster Hotel:

USC Archive

The photo dates to before the opening of the bathhouse--circa 1900, the USC Archive says. So none of those gentlemen in the picture were on their way there.

I believe there were a number of bathhouses operating in downtown Los Angeles in the early part of the 20th Century. Of course there were many vice busts that would occur.

This is from an 1895 Los Angeles directory:

gaytubs.com

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by rick m

Just back frm Sundays Hwd farmers mkt - smack dab centered @ Selma n Cosmo where 2 1930s gay speakeasies once were- B.B.B.s and Jimmy's Backyard - also the just closed Spotlite and Ivar St.'s eurodive Sewers Of Paris/in basement of Ivar Theatre!--Anyhoo- the 3 downtown hotels noted as okay to use in very early gay guides were the Lankershim once on 7th, the Hayward, San Carlos "adverts in 1970 Advocate" and the Dover Hotel&bar next to tThe Waldorf -500 block of S.Main-LAPD murder scene of a hustler..

I didn't know the Spotlight closed! I'd only been there a few times-- I recall it being run-down, very divey, and you saw all kinda people there; hustlers, closets, homeless-looking people-- but I didn't feel unsafe there. I felt like people left you alone for the most part.

[gsjansen]

sigh.........there have been tons of times, when i found fabulous photographs that i wanted to post...(alot of times on flickr or other third party sites)...however, i have always tried to adhere to the sites rules...(trust me , it's sometimes a pain in the patootie to source every photograph i post)......regardless....this is the home field rules for the playing field we all enjoy............

as draconian as the rules might sound........there are such things as copyright laws...yadda yadda yadda........anyway, my two cents, (again), although Los Angeles Past, might sound like a "Credit Police", his post needs to be taken and understood in that we have already been repremanded previously by this forum's modertor, and yes it is that important!


and now i'll get off of my high horse!


Source: LAPL

[Sebisebster]

TO LOS ANGELES PAST (Scott) -----> Understood. I delated my original post in order of terms of credit and copyright respect.