Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2 - Page 244

Oilkountry · #**4861** Posted **Feb 9, 2016, 5:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

I really don't think you have a solid understanding or adequate pulse on the situation in Calgary.

You could be right. I just look at it from an outsiders prospective. This is a 1.3 Billion dollar project minimum. And the city is being asked to cover a majority of this cost. A city who is ran by a man who is 100% against any public dollars being gifted to private sport facilities. Nenshi isn't a moron he knows what this CFL stadium dressed up as a field house is.

Aside from that they will be looking a federal and provincial funding for this clean up. That will be heavily scrutinized. You're very naive if you think they will be building an arena anytime soon. If it was funded today we are 6 years away from seeing the flames drop the puck in a new home. The Edmonton project was half the dollars and it took 5 years of real negotiations with a city council that was all for it. too many variables here for this to be a smooth process

elly63 · #**4862** Posted **Feb 9, 2016, 10:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

You didn't last too long in your second stint on the RPB forum did you?

Sad they're too insecure and ill informed to allow free speech.

esquire · #**4863** Posted **Feb 9, 2016, 11:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

That was him? I assumed it was Esquire due to the Winnipeg bombers references.

Me? As if!

Oilkountry · #**4864** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 12:22 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63

Sad they're too insecure and ill informed to allow free speech.

Even a guy on there now is questioning why CFL supporters get banned for have an different veiw. But I left with my head held high. Not one member could give me a good reason why the Argos won't succeed. Just pointless rants by a few idiots (MC) or story's of how or someone they know they used to love the CFL and now don't and try to pass it off as the majority opinion. If I mentioned the Argos 700K TV viewership I wouldn't get a reply, If I mentioned that the Argos have gone toe to toe with TFC's attendance over the past 10 years...crickets, The fact that the impact are currently having attendance issues and virtually every team is losing money...nadda

They would blatantly ignore any point I brought up and go straight to rants about past ownership saga's and Missed stadium opportunities (which they have a point) but no real evidence of the Argos being irrelevant in Toronto. It was like talking to a wall. One of my last questions was If you guys claim that the Argos aren't relevant with 20,000 buts in the seats an 700k+ sets of eyes on the TV How can you claim TFC are? "because my mid 20's son doesn't like them and hes an avid NFL fan bla bla bla"

I never insulted TFC nor the MLS I actually made a point to compliment the passion they have built up a cuople multiple times. I even made a comment about the future of the MLS in Canada. Hoping that would show I'm not there to cause problems. But unfortunately if your a CFL supporter.....

HomerSPC · #**4865** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 1:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Even a guy on there now is questioning why CFL supporters get banned for have an different veiw. But I left with my head held high. Not one member could give me a good reason why the Argos won't succeed. Just pointless rants by a few idiots (MC) or story's of how or someone they know they used to love the CFL and now don't and try to pass it off as the majority opinion. If I mentioned the Argos 700K TV viewership I wouldn't get a reply, If I mentioned that the Argos have gone toe to toe with TFC's attendance over the past 10 years...crickets, The fact that the impact are currently having attendance issues and virtually every team is losing money...nadda

They would blatantly ignore any point I brought up and go straight to rants about past ownership saga's and Missed stadium opportunities (which they have a point) but no real evidence of the Argos being irrelevant in Toronto. It was like talking to a wall. One of my last questions was If you guys claim that the Argos aren't relevant with 20,000 buts in the seats an 700k+ sets of eyes on the TV How can you claim TFC are? "because my mid 20's son doesn't like them and hes an avid NFL fan bla bla bla"

I never insulted TFC nor the MLS I actually made a point to compliment the passion they have built up a cuople multiple times. I even made a comment about the future of the MLS in Canada. Hoping that would show I'm not there to cause problems. But unfortunately if your a CFL supporter.....

I read the last couple pages of the stadium and Argos threads. You were probably the most civil person. Its such a shame there can be communities like that.

esquire · #**4866** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 5:05 AM**

Aaaaanyway, here's a cool vintage shot of Exhibition Stadium ca. 1972 from Howard Berger's spectacular Toronto sports blog. (I don't read it regularly but whenever I do, I disappear down a rabbit hole of amazing stories and photos). That old curved grandstand was a beautiful piece of architecture...

The cool thing about this series is that he tells the story about being 13 years old and wandering right down to the sideline to take photos of players close-up... practically unthinkable these days. There's future CFL commissioner and Canadian senator Larry Smith, then of the Montreal Alouettes:

Source: http://betweentheposts.ca/2012/02/travel...-football-media-heroes-past-and-present/

FrankieFlowerpot · #**4867** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 1:32 PM**

king10 · #**4868** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 3:05 PM**

even though its just a tiny change. it makes a huge difference. makes the place look much more authentic.

tomthumb2 · #**4869** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 5:39 PM**

^^^ Thanks for the great post Esquire. That blog is amazing and so are those pics. Agree that the old Exhibition Stadium grandstand looked cool but as someone who actually sat in them, they were terrible - especially for baseball! Also can't believe how crappy football helmets were back then. Larry Smith's helmet almost looks like it's flat on the top.

Acajack · #**4870** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 5:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomthumb2

^^^ Thanks for the great post Esquire. That blog is amazing and so are those pics. Agree that the old Exhibition Stadium grandstand looked cool but as someone who actually sat in them, they were terrible - especially for baseball! Also can't believe how crappy football helmets were back then. Larry Smith's helmet almost looks like it's flat on the top.

The old Alouettes logo was brutal as well.

FrankieFlowerpot · #**4871** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 11:05 PM**

https://sports.vice.com/ca/article/the-c...l-grass-playing-surface-at-rogers-centre

tomthumb2 · #**4872** Posted **Feb 10, 2016, 11:41 PM**

^^^ Can you imagine what it must have been like to play back in the day when there was cement and then shitty astro turf? No wonder Andre Dawson's knees were a mess.

And I know that they lay down foam over that cement but I'm sure the players still feel the difference - especially after 80 games. Anyone know what the plan is moving forward with real grass?

FrankieFlowerpot · #**4873** Posted **Feb 11, 2016, 12:03 AM**

They are still trying to figure out if they can grow it inside. The people at the University of Guelph are still researching.

tomthumb2 · #**4874** Posted **Feb 11, 2016, 12:17 AM**

I think I read somewhere or heard it on Bob McCown that the Jays think of Rogers as a dome that can be opened rather than an open air stadium that can be closed which is kind of ridicuous.

If they opened it in April and left it open - you'd think that might work but I'm no botanist. All I know is they used to grow grass at Jarry Park back in the day and sometimes that had snow on it till May, lol.

king10 · #**4875** Posted **Feb 11, 2016, 1:45 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomthumb2

I think I read somewhere or heard it on Bob McCown that the Jays think of Rogers as a dome that can be opened rather than an open air stadium that can be closed which is kind of ridicuous.

If they opened it in April and left it open - you'd think that might work but I'm no botanist. All I know is they used to grow grass at Jarry Park back in the day and sometimes that had snow on it till May, lol.

This is almost common knowledge and has been posted in numerous articles.

It's true. Nothing inside is weatherized. The scoreboard, the electronics. The roof can't open or close if its below a certain temperature. There is no drainage for the field, the humidity a grass surface would create could also damage things inside the stadium.

Its not like Safeco or Chase Field which are outdoor stadiums that can be enclosed. Those stadiums can be opened and exposed to the elements. Rogers Centre cannot. Its an indoor facility that can be cracked open.

osmo · #**4876** Posted **Feb 11, 2016, 3:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by king10

This is almost common knowledge and has been posted in numerous articles.

It's true. Nothing inside is weatherized. The scoreboard, the electronics. The roof can't open or close if its below a certain temperature. There is no drainage for the field, the humidity a grass surface would create could also damage things inside the stadium.

Its not like Safeco or Chase Field which are outdoor stadiums that can be enclosed. Those stadiums can be opened and exposed to the elements. Rogers Centre cannot. Its an indoor facility that can be cracked open.

Expanding on this. Skydome does not have great air control. They mentioned the idea of growing lights which is used in many indoor facilities in the world (a example is Singapore and the nation stadium that stays closed most days with growing lights for the grass) and they found that it would heat up inside so much it would get to be 45 degrees plus in there and be a nasty humid mess.

The drainage is the biggest reason. Not many ways for water to get out. They botched it not thinking of Skydome as a outdoor facility as a roof, it was built as a climate stable indoor facility with a roof that opens.

You can think of crazy engineering fixes if you willing to spend the money. In a dream world Skydive would get drainage put in, the roof panels replaced with a clear type material and you could grow grass.

How much is Rogers willing to pay? All that work might costs $600 million and above. If Rogers goes down the road I would not doubt if they blow up the hotel and build condos/flip that land section, to try and re-coup some of those costs.

Nathan · #**4877** Posted **Feb 11, 2016, 3:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo

Expanding on this. Skydome does not have great air control. They mentioned the idea of growing lights which is used in many indoor facilities in the world (a example is Singapore and the nation stadium that stays closed most days with growing lights for the grass) and they found that it would heat up inside so much it would get to be 45 degrees plus in there and be a nasty humid mess.

The drainage is the biggest reason. Not many ways for water to get out. They botched it not thinking of Skydome as a outdoor facility as a roof, it was built as a climate stable indoor facility with a roof that opens.

You can think of crazy engineering fixes if you willing to spend the money. In a dream world Skydive would get drainage put in, the roof panels replaced with a clear type material and you could grow grass.

How much is Rogers willing to pay? All that work might costs $600 million and above. If Rogers goes down the road I would not doubt if they blow up the hotel and build condos/flip that land section, to try and re-coup some of those costs.

Weren't they the ones that ended up buying it for a pittance of the actual cost though, something like $25 mill of the original $600,000,000? Not to say they haven't invested anything in it since... but if anyone has the money to do a refurb, it would be the owner of the building that basically didn't have to pay for the original build...

esquire · #**4878** Posted **Feb 11, 2016, 4:14 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo

The drainage is the biggest reason. Not many ways for water to get out. They botched it not thinking of Skydome as a outdoor facility as a roof, it was built as a climate stable indoor facility with a roof that opens.

Not really a "botch" so much as it was a sign of the times... in the mid 80s when plans were being drawn up for Skydome, nearly every multipurpose venue used astroturf which was the industry standard back then. Skydome was not really optimized for baseball... it was meant to be Toronto's rec room with something happening every night. Grass was incompatible with that, and with that being the case, there was no reason to treat it as an outdoor venue.

The whole "Skydome as baseball park first" idea did not exist until Rogers bought the place and slowly began tinkering with it.

Oilkountry · #**4879** Posted **Feb 11, 2016, 4:22 AM**

They need to invest a tank load of money into it . i maintain RC could be one of the nicest baseball venues out there with a deadly refurbishment

tomthumb2 · #**4880** Posted **Feb 11, 2016, 4:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by king10

This is almost common knowledge and has been posted in numerous articles.

It's true. Nothing inside is weatherized. The scoreboard, the electronics. The roof can't open or close if its below a certain temperature. There is no drainage for the field, the humidity a grass surface would create could also damage things inside the stadium.

Its not like Safeco or Chase Field which are outdoor stadiums that can be enclosed. Those stadiums can be opened and exposed to the elements. Rogers Centre cannot. Its an indoor facility that can be cracked open.

Thanks for the info King - wasn't aware of all that.