Tucson Development Thread

[cdsuofa]

Originally Posted by Patrick S

Tucson strikes annexation deal for proposed Southside shopping plaza

The City needs to annex a lot of the city's south side, north of Valencia specifically. If you look at our city limits it bumps up to about Palo Verde and Ajo and the line just dips far north into some areas and then back down south. Makes it harder to police, govern and develop. It all needs to be annexed to form a somewhat defined and recognizable city limit and theres no reason the City shouldn't be collecting those taxes. Im sure there are reasons for this odd configuration, what they are I have no ides but Im sure it can be resolved.

Tucson.gov

[sh9730]

And you guys thought I was crazy when I was mentioning Casa Grande as a possible location for the Tesla Gigafactory:

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...s-far-out.html

I get it - its still a long long shot but I did always think the rail aspect and the large swatch of land, and the intersection of I 8/I 10, put CG in the game....

Plus with the Phoenixmart project coming there will be more infrastructure in place....

Who knows though....

I would add though that this article mentions Buckeye as another possibility in the far west Phoenix valley - and I ve also heard Gila Bend mentioned.....my view though is if they are going to go to an "exurb" (because of land costs and less NIMBYism etc) then CG is the better choice as employees can come from BOTH Tucson and Phoenix....whereas Gila Bend and Buckeye would only tap west valley of Phoenix realistically....

[phxSUNSfan]

If Tesla comes to Arizona it would likely be built in S. Phoenix near Sky Harbor, Chandler, Mesa or Tempe. A few reasons:

1. ASU has the best engineering school of all the possible locations (it is the only university with a Top 45 engineering program nationally where Tesla wants to build, UofA's engineering school isn't). It has the best R&D for renewable technology including a renowned program specifically dedicated to nanotechnology and battery development.

2. Metro Phoenix has the population and workforce for a plant the size Tesla is building. The area has the infrastructure as well; mass transit, freeways, rail, and an international airport with flights to actual international destinations.

3. Quality of life that high-tech and "knowledge workers" are looking for with specific locations dedicated to urban living, as urban as it gets in the Southwest, with downtown Phoenix, Tempe and even Old Town Scottsdale.

I can tell you as someone working in this field, I would not want to live in Casa Grande or even have to work there and be subjected to a commute. Tucson would be a better choice but I don't think it has all the necessary components to attract such a large employer in need of a skilled workforce. Even though the Biz Journal article claims that sites in the far West Valley and CG were under consideration, I think it will end up in Maricopa County. We shall see though. If this plant is built in Pinal County or the WV I hope the state seriously considers commuter rail between Phoenix, CG, and Tucson.

[sh9730]

PHX,

You make valid points as to why South Phoenix area (and into parts of East Valley) make sense - BUT, and this is a huge thing - I don't see ANY of the neighborhoods you mention being receptive to a large solar farm and/or wind farm near the factory to power it. CG already has a couple of fully self contained facilities and the City is supportive of these installations (Frito Lay is one...).

Also, as this article mentions and almost every poster here has pointed out - there is no rail access directly to Phoenix - and as Tesla's Fremont factory is right on the railway, this will likely be a huge factor, given the weight involved in shipping batteries etc...rail is by far the most economical way to go.

I agree, finding workers will be the biggest negative to putting this in CG or environs, BUT....people will go where the work is - and CG has already begun, and will continue to transform into a larger suburb than it is now, with all the accompanying amenities etc.

Add in the fact that Im not so sure ALL the jobs involved here will need engineering savvy, nor will it be likely that all 6500 will be needed immediately in 2016, more likely over a 5-10 year period....and that changes the picture a bit.

But, Im not holding my breath believe me - Im just glad Phoenixmart is actually becoming a reality....

But it would be cool if we got this too - imagine all the other development that would occur on the relatively blank slate of CG if it did?!

[phxSUNSfan]

Originally Posted by sh9730

You make valid points as to why South Phoenix area (and into parts of East Valley) make sense - BUT, and this is a huge thing - I don't see ANY of the neighborhoods you mention being receptive to a large solar farm and/or wind farm near the factory to power it.

Why not? I don't see an issue, in fact, a solar array for the plant does not need to be build adjacent to the facility. It could be built miles away. Furthermore, it could also be built like the state's largest collection of solar panels powering one entity: the arrays built by ASU on campus (atop buildings, parking structures, pavilions, etc.) can serve as a template for how to build the Tesla factory with solar in mind.

Also, as this article mentions and almost every poster here has pointed out - there is no rail access directly to Phoenix - and as Tesla's Fremont factory is right on the railway, this will likely be a huge factor, given the weight involved in shipping batteries etc...rail is by far the most economical way to go.

There is rail access directly to Phoenix. In fact, the state's largest rail yards are in El Mirage and near Tempe. These are two yards in which most car manufacturers deliver cars to the state. Vehicles delivered to Arizona are offloaded in the El Mirage and Tempe yards. Central Phoenix also has 3 yards, 2 near downtown that are owned by rail companies.

I agree, finding workers will be the biggest negative to putting this in CG or environs, BUT....people will go where the work is - and CG has already begun, and will continue to transform into a larger suburb than it is now, with all the accompanying amenities etc.

That was the old economic model but not so much anymore. In all reality, if the only sites in Arizona meeting Tesla's needs are in remote locales like CG, then the company will most likely select one of the other three states and skip AZ altogether. If Tesla builds in El Paso they won't have to do so miles and miles away from a large population center.

Add in the fact that Im not so sure ALL the jobs involved here will need engineering savvy, nor will it be likely that all 6500 will be needed immediately in 2016, more likely over a 5-10 year period....and that changes the picture a bit.

It sounds like Tesla wants to move quickly and if it aims to be a mainstream automaker it has to do so with expediency.

But, Im not holding my breath believe me - Im just glad Phoenixmart is actually becoming a reality.

PhoenixMart is somewhat of a reality. It has yet to be built and it hasn't attracted any real commitment from retailers and manufacturers. This thing will be an economic black hole.

[sh9730]

PHX,

As with everyone else - we ll just have to wait and see.

I disagree with some of your points, especially that if limited to exurbs (BTW CG is not THAT far from where you are suggesting since I drive to the valley frequently and am in Chandler/Tempe in 35 mins from my house), that TESLA will skip AZ. Especially given the articles sources that TESLA is in fact PRIMARILLY examining these sites here (I cant imagine ALL of their sources being wrong...).

But - only time will tell! And I love the debate about it....

P S - Not sure if you have some information others don't - but Im in contact with several different avenues regarding the Phoenixmart project and my understanding is that there IS leasing and commitment from manufacturers already, and they have really just begun the marketing process....but that's a different thread.

[phxSUNSfan]

Originally Posted by sh9730

I disagree with some of your points, especially that if limited to exurbs (BTW CG is not THAT far from where you are suggesting since I drive to the valley frequently and am in Chandler/Tempe in 35 mins from my house), that TESLA will skip AZ. Especially given the articles sources that TESLA is in fact PRIMARILLY examining these sites here (I cant imagine ALL of their sources being wrong...).

38 minutes one way is a hell of a commute; and that is a calculation without traffic. It takes me 10 minutes to get to work and some of that time involves walking. However, the sites mentioned in the article that are being looked at in Pinal and the exurbs aren't Tesla's "primary" targets they are, however, among sites they are considering just in this state ... these sites include Tucson.

[Thirsty]

Originally Posted by phxSUNSfan

38 minutes one way is a hell of a commute; and that is a calculation without traffic. It takes me 10 minutes to get to work and some of that time involves walking. However, the sites mentioned in the article that are being looked at in Pinal and the exurbs aren't Tesla's "primary" targets they are, however, among sites they are considering just in this state ... these sites include Tucson.

I agree it is a hell of a commute but we're not typical. One in ten Americans will drive 90+ minutes each way. Arizona has relatively low commute times, with Phoenix averaging about half an hour. 40 minutes isn't going to be a deal breaker.

There is a strong youth trend toward urban/local lifestyles, but the majority who can afford to buy are still buying suburban houses.

[farmerk]

A 30+ min commute in Tucson is not unusual either. In LA metro, that's the norm.

"....There is rail access directly to Phoenix. In fact, the state's largest rail yards are in El Mirage and near Tempe. These are two yards in which most car manufacturers deliver cars to the state. Vehicles delivered to Arizona are offloaded in the El Mirage and Tempe yards. Central Phoenix also has 3 yards, 2 near downtown that are owned by rail companies. ..." How far from south of Phoenix (possible location of gigafactory)?

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by phxSUNSfan

There is rail access directly to Phoenix. In fact, the state's largest rail yards are in El Mirage and near Tempe. These are two yards in which most car manufacturers deliver cars to the state. Vehicles delivered to Arizona are offloaded in the El Mirage and Tempe yards. Central Phoenix also has 3 yards, 2 near downtown that are owned by rail companies.

What makes a rail yard be the "largest"? From what I can tell, the rail yard in south Tucson is larger than anything in Phoenix or El Mirage (and I can't even find the one you're talking about in Tempe). From Google Earth it looks like it has more tracks and it's overall footprint is just larger than either El Mirage or downtown Phoenix. Although the El Mirage one does look like a huge car loading facility.

However, maybe they don't need "largest". There is probably way more that goes into deciding if the available rail access will work for their factory than just size.

[ProfessorMole]

Not to derail the Phoenix/Tucson argument on the Tesla plant (pun extremely intended) but hadn't seen this posted on the forum yet:

Archeological artifacts were found on the Twin Peaks Outlet plot. They are not expecting it to delay their start, but if it does, that could give the Avra Outlets their chance again. The twin peaks group was already a small bit ahead because of infrastructure pieces already in place from the previous go at turning that land into a commercial property.

pit house on development plot

[Thirsty]

Originally Posted by phxSUNSfan

If Tesla comes to Arizona it would likely be built in S. Phoenix near Sky Harbor, Chandler, Mesa or Tempe. A few reasons:

1. ASU has the best engineering school of all the possible locations (it is the only university with a Top 45 engineering program nationally where Tesla wants to build, UofA's engineering school isn't). It has the best R&D for renewable technology including a renowned program specifically dedicated to nanotechnology and battery development.

I must have glossed over this yesterday, but I assume you're referring to US News & WR. Ten schools separate the two universities in a partially subjective rank of all ABET institutions nationwide; not a significant margin.

But really, we could be talking about just an assembly plant. Has a breakdown been released of what sort of jobs will be needed to fill the labor need? It could be a few plant managers and 6,000 solderers for all I know.

[Ritarancher]

http://m.la.curbed.com/archives/2014...ies_look_1.php
Replace ugly, orange incandescent lights with eco friendly LED lights. This is something that the city should start to phase in. While the initial investment is costly, it's worth it. Darker night skies, less energy consumption and a smaller electric bill would be very beneficial for our astronomy loving community. Just as a rough estimate, Tucson city limits are one fifth the population of LA city limits. If they save 5,000,000 dollars annually then we should expect savings of about one million. A million dollars a year isn't much, but it could help road repairs, streetcar maintenance, landscaping, cleaning graffiti or other various city needs.

[Qwijib0]

Originally Posted by Ritarancher

http://m.la.curbed.com/archives/2014...ies_look_1.php
Replace ugly, orange incandescent lights with eco friendly LED lights. This is something that the city should start to phase in. While the initial investment is costly, it's worth it. Darker night skies, less energy consumption and a smaller electric bill would be very beneficial for our astronomy loving community. Just as a rough estimate, Tucson city limits are one fifth the population of LA city limits. If they save 5,000,000 dollars annually then we should expect savings of about one million. A million dollars a year isn't much, but it could help road repairs, streetcar maintenance, landscaping, cleaning graffiti or other various city needs.

Tucson is mostly high/low pressure sodium which are very efficient already, going to LED would mean only a slight increase in that metric. Sodium bulbs are actually better for astronomy, since they peak at one very narrow wavelength it's easy to filter out that light. LEDs would have 3 or more peaks to filter. The big municipal savings with LEDs come from traffic lights, where they're 10 or more times efficient than the incandescents.

[Ted Lyons]

This short article has a lot of seemingly definitive statements about Tesla. Wonder what the actual evidence is.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/2...plant-location

It appears Reno, Nevada is the frontrunner, but Tucson officials say Tesla may be also interested in Tucson for other parts of its operation.

[farmerk]

60 minutes interview of Elon Musks

Few weeks ago, it's Albuquerque. Now, Reno as front runner for the gigafactory. Glad Tucson will have at least a piece of that factory. Gigafactory update.

The NIMBYs and CAVEs (fans of this forum) are boiling mad now.

[sh9730]

Well - here is the latest rumor the AZ Republic can add to this - Pinal County is where the focus is in AZ - sort of!! LOL

I hope they make the decision soon....

http://www.azcentral.com/story/money...ctory/7184157/

[Patrick S]

Originally Posted by sh9730

Well - here is the latest rumor the AZ Republic can add to this - Pinal County is where the focus is in AZ - sort of!! LOL

I hope they make the decision soon....

http://www.azcentral.com/story/money...ctory/7184157/

I'm glad to hear that the 3 sites being considered the most in Pinal County are in the Casa Grande area, or south. The Eloy site, and especially the Red Rock site, would actually be closer to Tucson than Phoenix. A couple other good things that would probably arise if any of these 3 sites in Pinal County were chosen would be that this would probably mean I-10 would finally be fully widened to at least 3 lanes from Tucson to Phoenix, and that this might spur the building of High Speed Rail from Tucson to Phoenix. The first, I would imagine, would for sure happen. Most of I-10 is 3 lanes from Tucson to Casa Grande, but little is 3 lanes north of that until you hit the southern part of the Phoenix area. I would imagine that if this was built along I-10 in Pinal County the state would quickly start drawing up plans, and finding the proper funds, to get I-10 widened the rest of the way between the 2 metro areas.

[Patrick S]

Major housing project near Corona de Tucson advances

The Pima County Board of Supervisors approved a development agreement Tuesday with the company that owns the old Hook M Ranch near Corona de Tucson, southeast of Tucson.

Diamond Ventures, which owns the 716 acres, plans a development that will include 1,376 homes, 400 apartments, open space, small commercial spaces and a public school.

The agreement specifies transportation and wastewater improvements that will be required to develop the land, which was rezoned two years ago.

They include designing and extending East Andrada Road from South Houghton Road to the entrance of the proposed project, as well as making any necessary improvements to the intersection of Houghton and Andrada.

The county Transportation Department will conduct a traffic study to determine the extent of the improvements.

The developer will also be responsible for design and construction of any wastewater pump stations and any conveyance lines to the Corona de Tucson Wastewater Treatment Facility, as well as all on-site wastewater improvements needed to serve the development.

The agreement will last for 25 years from the day it is signed.

It’s expected to take several years before construction begins on the site.

[Patrick S]

This video, in some ways, is better than I expected. The CG effects are a little cheesy, but the rest of it is actually pretty cool.

Maker House and friends appeal to Tesla with video

"Local creative types from Maker House, ArtFire, and Sparc Interactive have put together a video promoting Tucson with hopes of capturing attention at Tesla. The electric car giant, as Tucsonans know, is considering Arizona, along with Nevada, New Mexico and Texas, for its battery "gigafactory." The multi-billion dollar project comes with 6,500 jobs.

We've reached out to a spokesman for this video project and will follow up. In the meantime, read some of our previous Tesla stories and blog posts:"

- Unfortunately, one of these blog posts is this:

Phoenix Biz Journal: Tucson probably not on Tesla short list

"...A story earlier in the week that looked at Arizona sites said Tesla doesn't want to be too close to a major metro and suggested the top Arizona site is near Eloy, with Phoenix's agricultural West Valley the next most likely spot.

Tucson's suggested site south of Raytheon is too close to the city and not big enough, the story suggests."

"...That said, if not Tucson, a plant between Eloy and Casa Grande would still be good for Tucson, especially Marana, just not as good if it were built in or next to the Old Pueblo."

- This pretty much mirrors what I said a couple of posts ago.