Circuit of the Americas Development Updates

[BevoLJ]

I know they are only planning on having parking available to only like 20% of the attendees. They should have a lane that is only for buses. As long as the buses can get there it should be fine. No doubt lots of people are going to think they can just drive there and find parking but after the first day they should have it figured out that is not going to work and that they need to park downtown or near the airport and take one of the buses provided. Hotel buses and those other one provided by others (not just the city) should also have access to that lane.

Just do it like they do ACL fest and I don't see why there should be any traffic problems.

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by BevoLJ

I know they are only planning on having parking available to only like 20% of the attendees. They should have a lane that is only for buses. As long as the buses can get there it should be fine. No doubt lots of people are going to think they can just drive there and find parking but after the first day they should have it figured out that is not going to work and that they need to park downtown or near the airport and take one of the buses provided. Hotel buses and those other one provided by others (not just the city) should also have access to that lane.

Just do it like they do ACL fest and I don't see why there should be any traffic problems.

I don't think there are enough lanes available to designate one for just buses. I know what you say looks good on paper, but because of the relative isolation of this track and the amount of cars trying to get in, I can honestly say that this is going to be a disaster traffic wise. As someone who has been to 7 TMS NASCAR races I can tell you they have more roads leading into the track from all directions and a HUGE parking lot but it typically takes 4 hours to get from Austin to where you can see the track and another 2 - 3 hours to get in. I'll leave Austin around 5 AM, stop before I get there to fuel up and use the rest room, and I'll get to my seat around 11 AM, sometimes later.

[BevoLJ]

But don't more than 25k park at TMS?

[BevoLJ]

I'm sure you are right and the traffic will be a massive mess. But I just hope that the city and CotA tells people to leave their cars at their hotels, downtown lots or at the secure airport lots (make our airport some $) and tells them to use the buses. I also hope they make one lane for just buses, so those clowns in their cars realize they should have taken a bus.

The environmental agreement that the CoA and CotA reached was pretty clear on extremely limited parking and the use of low emission buses for the bulk of the attendees. I really hope they stick to that, and those visiting realize we are an environmentally conscious city as well as it helping ease the traffic issues.

No matter how bad the traffic gets I really hope they stick to the plan to bus everyone in. People parking downtown means they are more likely to spend $ downtown. People parking at the airport makes the airport some $. It is better more environmentally friendly transportation than 100k+ people using their own gas guzzling cars sitting there idling in that mess of traffic. And it means less paved land for massive parking lots.

[Armybrat]

I'll be able to park about 3,000-3,500 cars on my 25 acres which is one block from the west entrance to the F1 grounds.

$10 or $20 each car per day for three days would fetch a tidy sum.

But if it rained.......

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by Armybrat

I'll be able to park about 3,000-3,500 cars on my 25 acres which is one block from the west entrance to the F1 grounds.

$10 or $20 each car per day for three days would fetch a tidy sum.

But if it rained.......

BevoLJ, there are 80K parking spaces at TMS that include paved, gravel, and grass plus infield and camping parking outside turn 3, really more than enough if you consider at least 2 persons per car and attendance in the 120K range. Plus they have a huge area for bus parking, I believe 200 - 300 spaces. Parking was never an issue at TMS, its getting in and out of the parking lots.
All the points you make are valid solutions, but only 25K parking spaces are really going to piss people off when they waited for hours to get in and are met with a sign that says "lot full".
Armybrat, you may be on to something there! I'd set $25 / day for parking, but you may have a problem if it rains or if people slowing to park on your land impedes traffic. If I go to the race, I'll gladly hand over 25 bucks to you if you let me park in the front row!

[BevoLJ]

I think my thinking is that it is kinda their own fault if they get upset over the lot being full, or traffic being bad. They need to adjust their expectation. There is no way that they will be able to have all those people drive in and park. It would be a disaster.

If the track and race provide good transportation from downtown/airport/... and they chose to get stuck in a big traffic jam only to arrive and find out the lot is full then they should have taken the bus like the city is asking the track to do, and like the track agreed to do when the city endorsed the race.

I was kinda thinking they would only provide like 10k parking spots. With 2.5 attendees per car that would serve the 20% that the track agreed to limit themselves to for on site parking.

Edit: Just looked at the agreement and you are right. The max they can provide is 25k spaces, not 10k space like I was thinking.

[hookem]

Those 25k spots at the track will be sold in advance, just like for an event like a superbowl or UT game. You don't expect to just drive up to the track and get a parking space. I imagine they will be quite expensive, probably included in the highest priced tickets but otherwise well north of $100 for race day.

The parking situation will actually be quite similar to a UT game, now that I think about it. The masses will be parking a mile or more away from the track, and walking or taking the shuttle. Parking at the track will be only for the high rollers.

[bluedogok]

I bought my parking pass when I bought my tickets for the 2007 USGP (F1) at Indy, we were a few blocks away on a grass lot in a neighborhood, reminded me of parking at OU games in Norman. None of the major events will have drive up parking relatively close. We would get there about 8:00 in the morning and had no problems getting in/out, I would expect the same issues here. You show up early for qualifying and the support races, there are literally cars on the track from early morning to late afternoon with short breaks in between. At the 2007 race they had Formula BMW and Porsche Cup races in addition to the multiple practice and qualifying sessions for each class.

As far as access, the first few years of TMS were a complete disaster until all the roads around TMS were upgraded. My uncle has had season tickets up there since day one and said it took them four hours to get out of there after the first race. There will always be growing pains with any new facility with a lot of people. Getting in/out of JerryWorld after the OU-BYU game was a complete mess and that was at about 75% capacity. It wasn't much better at the next Cowboys game that we went to. In fact even though they had been at Texas Stadium for ever and had highways all around getting in/out of there could be a complete mess. Trying to move 75,000+ people all at once is ALWAYS going to create a traffic situation. Two seasons ago we went to the Broncos-Cowboys game at Invesco and took the Broncos shuttle bus from the 16th Street Mall Station (we stayed at The Magnolia downtown) and that was as good as taking the train to Fenway or Wrigley.

[BevoLJ]

Here are a couple little maps I had not seen before. If you click the link under the bottom map there is a big one you can look at.


http://kut.drupal.publicbroadcasting...eting-canceled

And another


http://www.formula1unitedstates.com/...aster_Plan.pdf

[BevoLJ]

http://www.dailytexanonline.com/news...earch-facility

UT engineering society pushes for new automotive research facility
Published 11 Jul 2011 at 1:21 PM
By Allison Harris

With a new race track on the way from Formula 1, the UT Formula Society of Automotive Engineers wants to build an automotive research facility to produce innovative vehicle designs and alternative fuel sources.

Ronald Matthews, academic adviser for the Society of Automotive Engineers at UT, said the team would work in partnership with F1 racing team AT&T Williams. The planned research facility would focus on engines, emissions and alternative fuels for the Advanced Vehicle Technology Competition hosted by the U.S. Department of Energy. Matthews said the UT team also worked with SAE International to bring the International Formula SAE Championship to Austin.

He said emissions and alternative fuel research could benefit public health and the country’s national and economic security.

“Alternative fuels are domestic fuels,” he said. “They generate jobs in America and because they’re domestic, secure fuels, they contribute to national security.”

Matthews said the research facility would also promote student interest in engineering and related college majors.

“We don’t have nearly enough American kids who decide they want to get engineering degrees,” he said. “That means engineering jobs are going unfilled, so we need to bring in engineers from other countries who take those jobs.”

....

[electricron]

Just wanted to put out this rule of thumb, whether you think it's valid or not.

A highway lane can carry 2,000 vehicles per hour. Assuming the highway is expand to 4 lanes, 2 lanes per direction, it'll be able to handle 4,000 vehicles per hour. It'll take 6 hours to move 24,000 vehicles over that single highway.

How the rule of thumb was originated:
Safe spacing between vehicles: every two seconds. 3600 seconds in an hour, therefore 1800 vehicles. Most drivers cheat and drive less than 2 seconds behind the vehicle in front, that's why it's 2000 vehicles per lane per hour instead of 1800. Trying to squeeze more vehicles through only causes congestion, which causes gridlock, and less traffic throughput.

As last weekend's experience at the NASCAR race in Kentucky, most of the delays will be caused by traffic trying to park in the parking lots. Most of these delays is caused by drivers paying the parking attendants, handling parking passes and making change, etc. The same experience caused at traditional toll booths on turnpikes and toll roads.

[the Genral]

Completely valid Electricron. Well put. Even with the limited onsite parking at 25K spaces, getting 25K vehicles and shuttle buses into the facility will cause major grid lock and it doesn't seem to worry the developers enough to come up with a better solution. Its going to be a nightmare and an embarrassment.

[hookem]

Originally Posted by electricron

Just wanted to put out this rule of thumb, whether you think it's valid or not.

A highway lane can carry 2,000 vehicles per hour. Assuming the highway is expand to 4 lanes, 2 lanes per direction, it'll be able to handle 4,000 vehicles per hour. It'll take 6 hours to move 24,000 vehicles over that single highway.

So does this sound right?

The current plan is to have 3 out of the 4 lanes on FM 812 going in the primary traffic direction -- to the track before the event, away from the track afterwards. So that would be 6000 vehicles per hour, or 4 hrs to move 24,000 vehicles on 812 from one direction.

But there will also be some vehicles coming from the other direction, I'd imagine. The 2000 vehicles per hour only applies to one direction coming in, right? That would be as if the road dead-ended into the track?

So if they did contra-flow on both directions of FM 812, that would be 6 lanes coming in and 6 lanes going out (after the event). So 12,000 vehicles per hour (probably a little less than that, I know, with traffic lower from the east)... so lets say 10K vehicles per hour. So now we're down to 2.5 hrs.

Plus, there is Elroy road. It's 1 lane in either direction (2 lanes total), and we'll count only one direction since on side ends on FM812. But it still has it's own entrance to CoTA before that, so it's a valid alternate route from either Austin (Burleson Rd) or other cities (via 130). So if they contra-flowed that entire road, that would be an additional 2 lanes for 4000 more cars per hour. So now we're up to 14,000 vehicles per hour so less than 2 hours to fill up the entire 25,000K spaces at the track.

BTW, part of the latest permits issued by the county include requirements for a plan to widen Elroy road. Also, the TxDOT improvements to FM812 (making it 4 lanes) will begin in September and be completed around the end of the year, in plenty of time for the first race. Since they'll be restriping and building the exits/entrances to the CoTA with the contra-flow plan in mind, that should help make things work really well. In theory, anyway.

[the Genral]

In theory except it doesn't take into consideration the bottle neck at the entrances which means most of the vehicles on the incoming roads will be at a standstill or at best, stop and go much of the time. We'll see I suppose.

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by BevoLJ

Here are a couple little maps I had not seen before. If you click the link under the bottom map there is a big one you can look at.

And another


http://www.formula1unitedstates.com/...aster_Plan.pdf

W hat is that weird shaped green area to the left of the track? Is that a park? Are they planning some kind of observation hill or something there?

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

W hat is that weird shaped green area to the left of the track? Is that a park? Are they planning some kind of observation hill or something there?

Observation hill.

[hookem]

This could be big news:

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/...t-1603845.html

Sounds like they got their FEMA letter on June 28, and the permits for building actual buildings and grandstands are coming within a day or so!

[electricron]

Originally Posted by hookem

So does this sound right?

The current plan is to have 3 out of the 4 lanes on FM 812 going in the primary traffic direction -- to the track before the event, away from the track afterwards. So that would be 6000 vehicles per hour, or 4 hrs to move 24,000 vehicles on 812 from one direction.

But there will also be some vehicles coming from the other direction, I'd imagine. The 2000 vehicles per hour only applies to one direction coming in, right? That would be as if the road dead-ended into the track?

So if they did contra-flow on both directions of FM 812, that would be 6 lanes coming in and 6 lanes going out (after the event). So 12,000 vehicles per hour (probably a little less than that, I know, with traffic lower from the east)... so lets say 10K vehicles per hour. So now we're down to 2.5 hrs.

BTW, part of the latest permits issued by the county include requirements for a plan to widen Elroy road. Also, the TxDOT improvements to FM812 (making it 4 lanes) will begin in September and be completed around the end of the year, in plenty of time for the first race. Since they'll be restriping and building the exits/entrances to the CoTA with the contra-flow plan in mind, that should help make things work really well. In theory, anyway.

Plans to widen Elroy Road doesn't widen it. Who is going to pay for that?
As for 6 lanes coming in and out for both directions, you'll be correct if half the vehicles came from the other direction, but they don't. We all know the vast majority of the traffic will be coming from Austin and SH 130, not from the opposite direction.

And as I suggested earlier, there will be built in delays from FM812 into the parking lot causing gridlock, with traffic backing up on FM812 for miles on end, and possibly backing up on SH130 as well. The race teams already know how important it is to get to the racetrack early, new race fans don't....

Texas Motor Speedway is a mess every race day for the major event. The improvements made by TXDOT initially were limited to one new intersection on the north side of the track, and a u-turn lane for traffic to turn north on I-35W after the race, and a 4 lane highway immediately adjacent to the track on SH114. If you're traveling west on SH114, you're still looking at a two lane highway. TXDOT has built SH114 east as a 4 lane highway which helps traffic somewhat from Dallas and Irving, but many from Dallas still take the long way going all the way to Denton and approach the racetrack from the north. All the traffic approaching the racetrack from the south and east must somehow get through the diamond intersection at SH114 and IH35W. It's impossible to keep the traffic from both directions priority through that intersection. So there is gridlock that backs up traffic in every direction.

[BevoLJ]

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/...type=rss_local

F1 developers may get OK today to start building
By Dave Doolittle
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Updated: 9:48 p.m. Tuesday, July 12, 2011
Published: 9:41 p.m. Tuesday, July 12, 2011

After months of pushing dirt around the site of a planned Formula One racetrack southeast of Austin, developers probably will begin construction of the first buildings soon.

Today , Travis County officials are expected to issue permits allowing developers to work on the facility's most complex buildings, a county official said. Circuit officials will meet with the county today to discuss several items related to construction and to get an update on traffic controls on the narrow roads that lead to the track.

The county has taken a phased approach to issuing permits that is based on what developers say is critical and that includes several conditions the county has set on road improvements and traffic and emergency management.

"The county seems to think that they can base their permits on intangibles such as traffic control and road improvements, and we're working with them on that," Richard Suttle, an attorney who represents Circuit of the Americas, said Tuesday. "I'm assuming this is a routine meeting with them. We've had the same types of meetings before."

Anna Bowlin, division director of Development Services for Travis County, said Tuesday that the meeting was called because "it's time for a progress report."

"It is a large, complicated, complex site, with a lot of items related to each other, and we want to make sure we're all on the same page with the most up-to-date information," Bowlin said.

Since the county issued some construction permits in December, F1 construction crews have been working on grading the site, making utility improvements and digging two tunnels under the track.

Today, the county is expected to sign off on paperwork filed at the beginning of the year that will allow developers to lay foundations for the pit buildings, main grandstands, and media and medical buildings.

....