Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[DENrising]

I know oil prices are high, but the goal here should be to attract more riders, thereby increasing revenue to help pay for increased fuel. The ever increasing prices on UTA's system will deter people from using UTA and will also lead to more pollution. You just can't win with them, but three price increases in a year is way too much. Poor people with no other transit means will suffer the most with higher prices and eventually, reduced service.

I think the cost of riding transit in SLC will eventually be more than than in NYC (current $2 subway fare). Does that make sense, considering the actual cost of living in NYC??

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9251465

UTA will move to a distance based fare system, and/or increased fares during peak time travel, it is only a matter of time.

Maybe UTA needs to start cutting some of the fat there at their agency!

[i-215]

Killpack wants to make driving a little bit easier than the rich....

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3302665

[arkhitektor]

Originally Posted by i-215

Killpack wants to make driving a little bit easier than the rich....

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3302665

Many other areas of the country already use congestion pricing and toll roads. Its only a matter of time before it happens here as well.

Many people seem to feel that it is their God-given right to drive a car wherever they go and not pay anything for it, then go nuts if taxes are used to pay for mass transit. Money isn't falling from the skies these days. If people want to live further and further from where they work and also want a worry free commute by themselves in a car, it isn't unreasonable for to expect them to pay something extra for the privelege, just like it isn't unreasonable for a FrontRunner pass to cost far more than a basic UTA pass.

[scrapernerd]

Allright I'm Confused A Little Bit? Alot Of People On This Forum Make It Sound That Its Is A Sin To Drive To Work And Yet When Suburbs Start Building Office Space And Places For There Citizens To Work Alot Of People Don't Like That Here Because It Takes Away From Slc, To Be Consisitant Shouldn't Every Person Be Force To Work Within One Mile To Were They Live And Then They Wouldn't Have To Buy A Car And Cause So Much Polution And Then We Can All Just Send More Money To Uta. If I Remember Right Commuter Rail North Just Cost Tax Payer 600 Million So What Maybe 3000 People Can Ride It. It Dosen't Make Senes To Me! Everytime The Citizens Of Utah Pass Another Tax Uta Raises Rates On Them Right After. Sorry For My Rant But I Had To Do A Report On Uta And I Liked Them Alot More Then Then I Do Now.

[NYC Rick]

Originally Posted by scrapernerd

Allright I'm Confused A Little Bit? Alot Of People On This Forum Make It Sound That Its Is A Sin To Drive To Work And Yet When Suburbs Start Building Office Space And Places For There Citizens To Work Alot Of People Don't Like That Here Because It Takes Away From Slc, To Be Consisitant Shouldn't Every Person Be Force To Work Within One Mile To Were They Live And Then They Wouldn't Have To Buy A Car And Cause So Much Polution And Then We Can All Just Send More Money To Uta. If I Remember Right Commuter Rail North Just Cost Tax Payer 600 Million So What Maybe 3000 People Can Ride It. It Dosen't Make Senes To Me! Everytime The Citizens Of Utah Pass Another Tax Uta Raises Rates On Them Right After. Sorry For My Rant But I Had To Do A Report On Uta And I Liked Them Alot More Then Then I Do Now.

Welcome to the real world...What exactly is your point? Not pushing just very confused by what you are saying.

"Shouldn't Every Person Be Force To Work Within One Mile To Were They Live And Then They Wouldn't Have To Buy A Car And Cause So Much Polution And Then We Can All Just Send More Money To Uta." HUH?

[scrapernerd]

First off the reason it my last post was all capitalized was because I didn't notice my cap locks was on and I guess it only capitalized the first letter in each word. And first off I'm not in school or working in development I just started liking skyscrapers when I hit 16 and I got to tell I saved alot of time and gas money having this forum because I was always driving to the site and wondering if anything was happening.I don't know how many time I drove by 222 S to see if hamilton had started that skyscraper. But my whole point is it seems if a person want to live in the suburbs or not in a city, and have land they are are not as enlightned as people who live in capitol citys, and in regards the uta I think I read once the head gets a higher salary then the govenor (not sure where I read it, poss utah business mag) I just think people don't question the public transportation enough except to say more is better. Which it could be because people are voting for it. Well now I'm rambiling again

[i-215]

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

Many other areas of the country already use congestion pricing and toll roads. Its only a matter of time before it happens here as well.

Many people seem to feel that it is their God-given right to drive a car wherever they go and not pay anything for it, then go nuts if taxes are used to pay for mass transit. Money isn't falling from the skies these days. If people want to live further and further from where they work and also want a worry free commute by themselves in a car, it isn't unreasonable for to expect them to pay something extra for the privelege, just like it isn't unreasonable for a FrontRunner pass to cost far more than a basic UTA pass.

Yeah, well it isn't the government's place to say only those making over $100K can drive on the road.

Raise the gas tax and apply it equally. That's the only fair user fee. But congestion tolling is a load a bull.

[arkhitektor]

Originally Posted by i-215

Yeah, well it isn't the government's place to say only those making over $100K can drive on the road.

Raise the gas tax and apply it equally. That's the only fair user fee. But congestion tolling is a load a bull.

Well, I don't think I would be supportive of a scheme to charge everyone to use roads, but I wouldn't be opposed to expanding the current Express Lane system, allowing those who chose to pay more to use a faster lane.
Also, our I-15 Express Lanes are a step in the right direction, but are pretty lame compared to what they could be. I think that new or reconstructed freeways should have reversible express lanes added to them. Not just HOV striping on the lest lane, but a separate 3-lane reversible segment that ran inbound in the mornings and outbound in the afternoons and charged a toll. That way, nobody would be denied from using the road, but if people wanted to use a fast lane they would have to pay for it.

I-394 West of downtown Minneapolis does this pretty well:



The center two lanes are separated from the rest of the flow of traffic, charge a toll, and are reversible for inbound and outbound traffic.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

Well, I don't think I would be supportive of a scheme to charge everyone to use roads, but I wouldn't be opposed to expanding the current Express Lane system, allowing those who chose to pay more to use a faster lane.
Also, our I-15 Express Lanes are a step in the right direction, but are pretty lame compared to what they could be. I think that new or reconstructed freeways should have reversible express lanes added to them. Not just HOV striping on the lest lane, but a separate 3-lane reversible segment that ran inbound in the mornings and outbound in the afternoons and charged a toll. That way, nobody would be denied from using the road, but if people wanted to use a fast lane they would have to pay for it.

The center two lanes are separated from the rest of the flow of traffic, charge a toll, and are reversible for inbound and outbound traffic.

Well, I suppose I can come half-way and agree with you on that. A "Lexus Lane" (while still a bit of a return to a class-system in America) is arguably OK. But there always needs to be a free alternative.

The trouble with the cooky Utah State Taxpayers Association is that they're talking in terms of wanting to toll ALL of I-15. That defeats the point of why we built the Interstates in the first place.

But OK, I'm cool with a "toll lane." That looks like what I've seen on the 91 in Orange County, California.

[wrendog]

I'm just impressed that you capitalized every freaking word.

[delts145]

Okay... So here's this article in this mornings Trib.

Mass transit
UTA contracts for 77 light-rail cars, options 180 more
Request is the largest-ever order for transit cars from Siemens' plant in Sacramento

Utah's rail revolution is about to power up with a massive train order, accelerating the program to a pace unseen at any American transit agency.
The light-rail system that started in 1999 and now runs 69 electric rail cars just ordered 77 new ones, with an option for many more. The initial order is for $277 million with Siemens, and breaks that company's record for the largest-ever light-rail vehicle order, the company will announce today.
It's far larger than Siemens' last order, a 55-car batch for Denver.
The Germany-based corporation builds rail cars in Sacramento, Calif.
"This is a large order," Utah Transit Authority spokeswoman Carrie Bohnsack-Ware acknowledged. "However, many agencies that are experiencing high growth on their systems have larger orders. . . .This is, however, Siemens' largest single order out of their Sacramento facility."
The purchase is part of UTA's "Frontlines 2015" program extending TRAX light rail from downtown to Salt Lake City International Airport and from the Salt Lake-Sandy rail line to West Jordan, West Valley City and Draper. The program and the rail cars are funded 80 percent through local sales taxes and 20 percent by the federal government.
Siemens' news release about the contract lists an option for 180 more rail cars, though UTA General Manager John Inglish said the agency most likely won't use that many. It's common practice to secure more than needed at a good bulk price, he said, then offer the excess to another transit system that needs the cars. That's how UTA bought its first light-rail cars, on an option from San Diego's system, he said.
"I'm not sure why we have an option for 180. Wishful thinking, maybe," Inglish said. "We probably will always order more than we need, in order to get a good buy."
UTA will need the initial 77 cars and more to operate the four new rail lines, though, he said. And Bohnsack-Ware said the option gives UTA wiggle room if the rider response is bigger than expected, as was the case when TRAX first opened.
"If we see this huge crush of riders like we did on the Sandy-Salt Lake line and we need to buy more, then we can," she said.
UTA is scheduled to break ground on the new Mid-Jordan TRAX line today.
Siemens built 40 of the cars already in use on TRAX. They're the newer, sleeker cars as opposed to used cars purchased from other agencies. The new order is for Siemens' S-70, a more rounded model used in San Diego, Houston and Charlotte, N.C. It's also more accessible for those with disabilities because its floor aligns with the station platforms, eliminating the stairwells, Bohnsack-Ware said.
"Winning the Salt Lake City UTA contract demonstrates the confidence our customers have in Siemens and our products well into the future and further enables us to reinforce our long-term commitment to the riding public," Siemens Transportation Systems CEO Oliver Hauck said in a statement. The company has grown its Sacramento work force by 30 percent in the past two years.

.

[arkhitektor]

Originally Posted by delts145

Mass transit
UTA contracts for 77 light-rail cars, options 180 more
Request is the largest-ever order for transit cars from Siemens' plant in Sacramento

Utah's rail revolution is about to power up with a massive train order, accelerating the program to a pace unseen at any American transit agency.

...UTA is scheduled to break ground on the new Mid-Jordan TRAX line today.
Siemens built 40 of the cars already in use on TRAX. They're the newer, sleeker cars as opposed to used cars purchased from other agencies. The new order is for Siemens' S-70, a more rounded model used in San Diego, Houston and Charlotte, N.C. It's also more accessible for those with disabilities because its floor aligns with the station platforms, eliminating the stairwells, Bohnsack-Ware said.
"Winning the Salt Lake City UTA contract demonstrates the confidence our customers have in Siemens and our products well into the future and further enables us to reinforce our long-term commitment to the riding public," Siemens Transportation Systems CEO Oliver Hauck said in a statement. The company has grown its Sacramento work force by 30 percent in the past two years.

I can't wait to start riding this:



Instead of this:



Compared to the new Siemens cars, our current trains look like communist leftovers.

[i-215]

I think you make a good point on the light rail route. I've always supported direct routes or lines on their own R.O.W. because a slow system is no fun to ride. But aren't there plans to make a "loop" out of it.

(BTW arkhitektor, sorry if I sorta snapped at your post about driving, but that's what happens on a day when I get up at 4 A.M. and stay up 'til midnight).

[delts145]

WOWZA!!!.... I hadn't realized the new ones on order were going to be so sexy! Very nice.

[MetroFanatic]

Originally Posted by delts145

WOWZA!!!.... I hadn't realized the new ones on order were going to be so sexy! Very nice.

No kidding! Does anybody know when we'll start seeing these? I hope it's not when all the other lines are done, I want to ride in that NOW!

[wrendog]

Yes, the new cars are much more sexy. Exciting times for mass transit in Utah! Now, let's get Frontrunner down to the UC!

[Future Mayor]

I think I've said this previously but I don't have anything else to do today so I'll mention it again.

After they finish they initial Front Runner to UT County line to East Lake in Provo I think think they have three more extension that need to occur, maybe four. The obviously need to begin the extension to Brigham City to the north and Nephi to the south, which I think are the eventual long range plans anyway. The third line need to be out to Tooele, wether we like it or not Tooele county is booming, it is one of the only places a young family can afford a house. I think that is the most logical next commuter rail line (maybe call it the Lake Runner)

I was reading an article in Urban Land today regarding the nations transportation system and the need for investment in a nation rail system and regional lines. What if Utah and Idaho joined forces to create a high speed rail to connect Salt Lake City to Boise and maybe Utah could join forces with Colorado to connect Salt Lake City to Denver. They each state would have their own regional rail (FrontRunner) and Trax to connect to the other cities. Just a thought.

[i-215]

^^^^

I used to wonder that myself. I rode the MAX in Portland and thought "how cool would this be if I could just 'stay on' and soon here 'next stop, Gallivan Center, 100 South.''"

[delts145]

... And with that in mind read this.... Hopefully Gov. Huntsman will prevail.

Utah trio push for oil shale

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700226436,00.html?pg=1

... The U.S. has more than 70 percent of the world's oil shale, with the richest deposits in Colorado, Utah and Wyoming estimated to contain 1.5 trillion barrels of shale oil, said Hansen...

If only 800 billion of this can be recovered, that alone would supply all of our current domestic petroleum needs for the next 100 years or more,... He called the three Western states the "Saudi Arabia of oil shale."

"It would be nice to pretend we're not dependent on oil, that we can skip immediately to some yet-to-be-identified alternative 30 years down the line...

"Utah is home not only to substantial oil shale reserves (most of which are located upon BLM lands) but also to businesses willing to develop oil shale using new technology that will make extraction cleaner and more efficient,"

.

[RFPCME]

Originally Posted by delts145

... And with that in mind read this.... Hopefully Gov. Huntsman will prevail.

Utah trio push for oil shale

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700226436,00.html?pg=1

... The U.S. has more than 70 percent of the world's oil shale, with the richest deposits in Colorado, Utah and Wyoming estimated to contain 1.5 trillion barrels of shale oil, said Hansen...

If only 800 billion of this can be recovered, that alone would supply all of our current domestic petroleum needs for the next 100 years or more,... He called the three Western states the "Saudi Arabia of oil shale."

"It would be nice to pretend we're not dependent on oil, that we can skip immediately to some yet-to-be-identified alternative 30 years down the line...

"Utah is home not only to substantial oil shale reserves (most of which are located upon BLM lands) but also to businesses willing to develop oil shale using new technology that will make extraction cleaner and more efficient,"

.

Delts: Thanks for posting this article. It appears that Hell has frozen over and the Sun is now coming up in the West...I finally agree with something that Orin Hatch and Jim Hansen are pushing! I don't think I've gotten any smarter, nor do I think that Hatch and Hansen are losing their grips. I think all of us are realizing the patently obvious...the oil shale is there, it's cheap in comparison to other sources of energy and essential materials, and it can be developed responsibly, mitigating environmental impacts (at a price that is probably less than half of today's oil prices). I read the draft EIS, and it seems well thought out. Yes, there are some unknowns, the biggest one being scarce water. But even the water issue is surmountable with the right approach using today's technology. It's time. No, it's past time.