How widespread are the homeless/mental health/addiction issues in your city/province?

[Acajack]

Areas that have done what is being suggested have had a hard time controlling the resale black market. Junkies resell the drugs they get for free and use the money to buy even more potent stuff.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by someone123

The discussion is often stuck in moralizing territory and incentive structures or goals are de-emphasized. We want a fair and humane system, sure, but we also want low drug use, not high drug use. We accept this with smoking which the government has worked hard to wipe out.

I'm not sure but you might actually get in more trouble in Vancouver for smoking tobacco than for doing hard drugs in a lot of places. Not sure what the relative affordability is like.

As far as incentive structure we have an economy where low skill wages are poor and often don't even allow people to get secure housing. For a person with no supports who may already have a lot of problems (like brain damage from a drug overdose) I wonder how much of a quality of life difference there is between trying really hard to get your life in order with all the real life setbacks that happen and just doing drugs and bouncing around whatever social services exist. On top of that there's the addiction factor slanting things.

Your last paragraph totally hits the nail on the head; I can confirm this from (now) years of experience with many people (and far from just my significant other).

The cliff that one needs to climb to “go back to being a citizen” when you’ve thoroughly fucked up all aspects of your life… being sober and facing that, is just unbearable, so 99% of them just continue to get drugged out of their mind, as the only realistic solution to forget.

“My family doesn’t talk to me anymore; I have tons of unpaid tickets; I lost all my former decent friends (my only acquaintances are drug addicts now); I have tons of debt everywhere (hydro, credit cards, unpaid rent from before homelessness); I’m ashamed to run into anyone who used to know me before I became the wreck I am now; etc.”

It’s a really steep mountain to climb.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Your last paragraph totally hits the nail on the head; I can confirm this from (now) years of experience with many people (and far from just my significant other).

The cliff that one needs to climb to “go back to being a citizen” when you’ve thoroughly fucked up all aspects of your life… being sober and facing that, is just unbearable, so 99% of them just continue to get drugged out of their mind, as the only realistic solution to forget.

“My family doesn’t talk to me anymore; I have tons of unpaid tickets; I lost all my former decent friends (my only acquaintances are drug addicts now); I have tons of debt everywhere (hydro, credit cards, unpaid rent from before homelessness); I’m ashamed to run into anyone who used to know me before I became the wreck I am now; etc.”

It’s a really steep mountain to climb.

This is a good point and I think a lot of us (including myself in this) might not have the strength to get out of it if we were in the same situation.

That said, if I may be a bit contradictory, it doesn't mean I will be supportive or even tolerant of public policy decisions that will place my kids or anyone else in greater danger when they're walking down the street.

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by lio45

Your last paragraph totally hits the nail on the head; I can confirm this from (now) years of experience with many people (and far from just my significant other).

The cliff that one needs to climb to “go back to being a citizen” when you’ve thoroughly fucked up all aspects of your life… being sober and facing that, is just unbearable, so 99% of them just continue to get drugged out of their mind, as the only realistic solution to forget.

“My family doesn’t talk to me anymore; I have tons of unpaid tickets; I lost all my former decent friends (my only acquaintances are drug addicts now); I have tons of debt everywhere (hydro, credit cards, unpaid rent from before homelessness); I’m ashamed to run into anyone who used to know me before I became the wreck I am now; etc.”

It’s a really steep mountain to climb.

Definitely. Though I was more of a harm reduction advocate, I now am seeing that we need to move towards a mandated treatment model. People with mental health issues that potentially are a harm to themselves or others or at risk of decompensation are mandated treatment. The same should be implemented with substance use issues. If you are resorting to a life of crime to get your fix, then you should lose your right to make choices.

The biggest issue you identified, Lio, is that it's hard to get back to a "normal" life when you have burned bridges, are generally unemployable and now have to work towards staying off substances. The urge is too great to use again, plus the brain is restructured physiologically towards dependency.

That is where I think the system needs to do a much better job in securing employment (creating partnerships with employers who want to hire people struggling) and engaging supports to help people maintain their health and life without substances.

[SpongeG]

are there a lot of bent-over people walking around the city you are in? Speaking for what I see in Surrey there are dozens of people hunched over barely able to stand up, I've been told it's due to their drug use that screwed their backs, but there are so many of them, more men than women but it's just a regular sight here these days.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

are there a lot of bent-over people walking around the city you are in? Speaking for what I see in Surrey there are dozens of people hunched over barely able to stand up, I've been told it's due to their drug use that screwed their backs, but there are so many of them, more men than women but it's just a regular sight here these days.

It's the xylazine mixed with fentanyl ("tranq") that is causing this, from what I understand. As if fentanyl by itself wasn't life crushing enough, the addition of xylazine has brought the devastation to a new level.

[Coldrsx]

GUNTER: Public safety key to revitalizing Edmonton's Downtown
Despite all the city is doing to revive Downtown, it won’t do the one thing that might help — clean up the homelessness, crime and open drug use.

Author of the article: Lorne Gunter
Published Aug 31, 2023

https://edmontonsun.com/opinion/colu...ntons-downtown

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Jaws

It's the xylazine mixed with fentanyl ("tranq") that is causing this, from what I understand. As if fentanyl by itself wasn't life crushing enough, the addition of xylazine has brought the devastation to a new level.

Tranq is even worse than fentanyl only. Just a an absolute hellish drug combination

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/07/h...zine-drug.html

In her shattered Philadelphia neighborhood, and increasingly in drug hot zones around the country, an animal tranquilizer called xylazine — known by street names like “tranq,” “tranq dope” and “zombie drug” — is being used to bulk up illicit fentanyl, making its impact even more devastating.

Xylazine causes wounds that erupt with a scaly dead tissue called eschar; untreated, they can lead to amputation. It induces a blackout stupor for hours, rendering users vulnerable to rape and robbery. When people come to, the high from the fentanyl has long since faded and they immediately crave more. Because xylazine is a sedative and not an opioid, it resists standard opioid overdose reversal treatments.

[RHINO]

The ONLY thing that will help is mandatory rehab. If not for those suffering from addiction, then those suffering under a system where lawlessness has been allowed to balloon out of control all in the name of being tolerant to those with addiction issues. Never would I have believed that 95% of the nation is being told we have to live in an unsafe city due to 2.5-5% of those that cannot fit into society for one reason or another.

[ssiguy]

Homelessness will only continue to get worse not only due to a lack of affordable housing but also because our politicians {especially local} and poverty industry allow it to happen and then give the excuse "we have to accept this".

!} I would abolish all "community" safe injection sites. The reason for them is a sound one, they help prevent deaths and that is of paramount importance. Of course, that has been a complete failure. Health/social service agents want us to believe that drug addiction is not a social problem but a health one and i agree with that 100%. This is why all addiction services should be done at the local hospital where they have the facilities, staff, security, and resources to deal with it including emergency ones. This will also get rid of the problems of dodging needles, pimps waiting for their prostitutes right across the street, dealers outside, people lying on the street after getting their fix, and disorderly and intimidating behavior across from the safe injection site and the local community. Those engaged in the program should be given a free monthly bus pass with a photo on it so it doesn't become a piece of currency.

2} Offer free housing to people who want it in a more isolated {still served by transit} in INDUSTRIAL areas. Free food, private rooms with their own keys to allay their theft fears, mental health supports, drug issue supports, and an entertainment area on a good sized acreage with a LOT of security. They should divide the area into different sections for people with different needs and can come and go as they please. It's called a warehouse and basically means there is no such thing as people who are homeless but rather people who CHOOSE to be homeless. Then ban all homeless encampments everywhere in the city and those that practice it will be quickly picked up by the police and taken there and if violent then they go to jail for the night until they calm down/their drugs wear off.

There should be transitional supports for those who are going back to school/retraining or those on drug control/reduction programs and have been successfully maintaining it for 3 months. They would be given free bus passes, phones, work clothes, and as allow them to save some money until they can venture out on their own and be in a different section of the facility.

People may not like the idea but too damn bad......here is safe, free, clean, warm, and dry place to live and if you choose not to then that is your choice but don't expect the streets to be considered your alternative.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

GUNTER: Public safety key to revitalizing Edmonton's Downtown
Despite all the city is doing to revive Downtown, it won’t do the one thing that might help — clean up the homelessness, crime and open drug use.

Author of the article: Lorne Gunter
Published Aug 31, 2023

https://edmontonsun.com/opinion/colu...ntons-downtown

Good column. I wonder how much worse things will get... the current situation in our cities would have been hard to fathom 20 years ago.

[Wigs]

If we just claim "our hands are tied" the fentanyl crisis will only get worse.

It's becoming more common for people to hear of a relative of someone they know overdosing and dying.

If I'm not mistaken, 2022 drug overdose deaths in Canada are now over 7,300/yr, and in the United States almost 110,000/yr

USA drug overdose deaths 1999-2021



The most concerning, the grey line is synthetic opioids, primarily Fentanyl.
Synthetic opioid deaths make up 66% of the total.

https://nida.nih.gov/research-topics...se-death-rates

[Architype]

Finally, here is a study which claims giving money to homeless people actually helps them.

Halifax reaction to study that suggests giving cash to people experiencing homelessness

A new study with a small sample size out of the University of British Columbia suggests giving those experiencing homelessness an infusion of cash could help get them off the streets.
. . .
The study found most money was spent on rent, food, housing, transit, furniture, a used car and clothes. It also proved to be a money saver for government.

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/halifax-...ness-1.6544166

I am a little surprised, the usual perception is that any such money would not be used responsibly.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by Architype

Finally, here is a study which claims giving money to homeless people actually helps them.



https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/halifax-...ness-1.6544166

I am a little surprised, the usual perception is that any such money would not be used responsibly.

The money was given to those who don’t have substance abuse issues. I’m a proponent of UBI and I think these studies will go a long way to get us there.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by esquire

Good column. I wonder how much worse things will get... the current situation in our cities would have been hard to fathom 20 years ago.

Which calls into question the oft repeated mantra that “the war on drugs was a failure” mantra. Our cities were certainly better places before drug liberalization etc.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by whatnext

which calls into question the oft repeated mantra that “the war on drugs was a failure” mantra. Our cities were certainly better places before drug liberalization etc.

100%.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Originally Posted by Jaws

The money was given to those who don’t have substance abuse issues. I’m a proponent of UBI and I think these studies will go a long way to get us there.

Not sure about the UBI thing myself. I know that people need help and I do want to help them, but I remember in the 80's when times were tough for a while some people I knew had to work two jobs for a little bit. I know my wife had to in the early 2000's as a single mom. I'm all up for helping people just not sure why we can't help them help themselves by doing something about their job prospect. Not sure why we need to help people get hooked on the government by increasing peoples dependency on the government itself. Not a very good ideal if you ask me, then at that point they can make you do almost anything when they have you by the balls like that. UBI is welfare on steroids, but instead of needing no job, you can still have one and get it? How about the government lowers the cost of living and helps with the housing crisis rather than saying that people need to depend on the government for their income! UBI will just be another thing that people try to take advantage of just like serb, which has almost bankrupt our nation. I'm not sure how putting our nation is astronomical amounts of debt is going to help anyone. They say it will save the government money, but I find that very hard to believe.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by MonctonianSentinel01

Not sure about the UBI thing myself. I know that people need help and I do want to help them, but I remember in the 80's when times were tough for a while some people I knew had to work two jobs for a little bit. I know my wife had to in the early 2000's as a single mom. I'm all up for helping people just not sure why we can't help them help themselves by doing something about their job prospect. Not sure why we need to help people get hooked on the government by increasing peoples dependency on the government itself. Not a very good ideal if you ask me, then at that point they can make you do almost anything when they have you by the balls like that. UBI is welfare on steroids, but instead of needing no job, you can still have one and get it? How about the government lowers the cost of living and helps with the housing crisis rather than saying that people need to depend on the government for their income! UBI will just be another thing that people try to take advantage of just like serb, which has almost bankrupt our nation. I'm not sure how putting our nation is astronomical amounts of debt is going to help anyone. They say it will save the government money, but I find that very hard to believe.

How would you suggest they do that?

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by RHINO

The ONLY thing that will help is mandatory rehab. If not for those suffering from addiction, then those suffering under a system where lawlessness has been allowed to balloon out of control all in the name of being tolerant to those with addiction issues. Never would I have believed that 95% of the nation is being told we have to live in an unsafe city due to 2.5-5% of those that cannot fit into society for one reason or another.

You nailed it, except that it’s not 2.5-5%, that percentage is much smaller yet allowed to wreak havoc!

[whatnext]

The shitshow in Vancouver. What a disgrace.

https://twitter.com/Jayde8700/status...77994115547639