YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

For peak summer 2013 schedules KE is upgauging the daily YVR-ICN flight to a 744.

That's a pretty decent increase in capacity.

http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/22/ke-s13update2/

Ooohh... that sounds promising, another 747 for Vancouver. Korean airlines does a decent job of service as well. As my flights to Japan are generally to Osaka (requiring a transfer anyhow), I'd definitely consider flying with Korean Airlines.

[Johnny Aussie]

Summer scheds showing the 4th daily LAX flight restored.

That was the 1530 departure.

All showing as 734 right now.

[Valley_Refugee]

YVR ended the year with 17,596,000 passengers, up 3.3% from 2011.

http://www.yvr.ca/en/about/facts-stats.aspx

[Johnny Aussie]

Winter 2013/14 (12 Dec - 22 Feb) now showing 6 weekly up from 5. One step from daily!

So daily except Tuesdays on 772.

http://airlineroute.net/2013/02/08/nz-w13update1/

[teriyaki]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Ooohh... that sounds promising, another 747 for Vancouver. Korean airlines does a decent job of service as well. As my flights to Japan are generally to Osaka (requiring a transfer anyhow), I'd definitely consider flying with Korean Airlines.

At the same time though, AC is dropping capacity on this route.

Vancouver – Seoul Incheon eff 01JUN13 Service reduces from daily to 4 weekly

[deasine]

^I would hope OZ take over the AC capacity when they deploy new aircraft to LAX and JFK.

[SpongeG]

my friends got return airfare from seattle to new york for $350 - i am going to have to pay opver $700 from edmonton to new york not fair

i was at the airport on wednesday, i usually fly with air canada (using air miles rewards) and this time i used or they used west jet so i got to see that terminal - it feels quite old and dated compared to the one air canada uses a lot of it is boarded up for work, that long steep ramp is quite the walk tooo, i didn't see any kind of signage detailing the work going on anywhere in that part of the terminal

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by teriyaki

At the same time though, AC is dropping capacity on this route.

Vancouver – Seoul Incheon eff 01JUN13 Service reduces from daily to 4 weekly

I get the impression that the new Dreamliners can't arrive soon enough for Air Canada. 4x weekly from Seoul during the peak summer season? Seems like the expansion of flights to Beijing is coming at the expense of Korea.

[MetroRailRoad]

Here is a photo I t5ook of the Canada Line YVR-Airport station



I am the photographer, taken from http://metrorailroad.comli.com/photodescription.php?id=11

[craneSpotter]

Thought this was interesting info. The busiest long haul routes 2012: (edit: not routes, market size>>>number of enplaned pax from/to destination)

YYZ-HKG 293,000 pax
YYZ-DEL 176,000 pax
YYZ-LHR 392,000 pax
YYZ-CDG 198,000 pax
YYZ-PEK 182,000 pax
YYZ-PVG 121,000 pax
YYZ-MNL 143,000 pax
YYZ-FCO 181,000 pax
YYZ-ICN 100,000 pax

YVR-PEK 135,000 pax
YVR-DEL 142,000 pax
YVR-MNL 88,000 pax
YVR-LHR 232,000 pax
YVR-HKG 283,000 pax
YVR-PVG 155,000 pax
YVR-ICN 130,000 pax
YVR-NRT 110,000 pax

YUL-CDG 503,000 pax
YUL-LHR 129,000 pax
YUL-CMN 94,000 pax

AC is going to put a 458 seat 777 on the YUL-CDG route - no wonder!

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by craneSpotter

Thought this was interesting info. The busiest long haul routes 2012:

YYZ-HKG 293,000 pax
YYZ-DEL 176,000 pax
YYZ-LHR 392,000 pax
YYZ-CDG 198,000 pax
YYZ-PEK 182,000 pax
YYZ-PVG 121,000 pax
YYZ-MNL 143,000 pax
YYZ-FCO 181,000 pax
YYZ-ICN 100,000 pax

YVR-PEK 135,000 pax
YVR-DEL 142,000 pax
YVR-MNL 88,000 pax
YVR-LHR 232,000 pax
YVR-HKG 283,000 pax
YVR-PVG 155,000 pax
YVR-ICN 130,000 pax
YVR-NRT 110,000 pax

YUL-CDG 503,000 pax
YUL-LHR 129,000 pax
YUL-CMN 94,000 pax

AC is going to put a 458 seat 777 on the YUL-CDG route - no wonder!

Do you have a source for that?
AC has 4/5 dailys YYZ-LHR and 1/2 daily YUL-CDG. Both of those routes are 900K plus and 1 MM plus respectively. If BA is only running 2 dailys to YYZ and AF is running 3/4 dailys to YUL I would question those stats quite a bit. Also YYZ-MNL started Nov 30th so it's unlikely there were 143K. Unless I'm not understanding the post.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by craneSpotter

Thought this was interesting info. The busiest long haul routes 2012:

YYZ-HKG 293,000 pax
YYZ-DEL 176,000 pax
YYZ-LHR 392,000 pax
YYZ-CDG 198,000 pax
YYZ-PEK 182,000 pax
YYZ-PVG 121,000 pax
YYZ-MNL 143,000 pax
YYZ-FCO 181,000 pax
YYZ-ICN 100,000 pax

YVR-PEK 135,000 pax
YVR-DEL 142,000 pax
YVR-MNL 88,000 pax
YVR-LHR 232,000 pax
YVR-HKG 283,000 pax
YVR-PVG 155,000 pax
YVR-ICN 130,000 pax
YVR-NRT 110,000 pax

YUL-CDG 503,000 pax
YUL-LHR 129,000 pax
YUL-CMN 94,000 pax

AC is going to put a 458 seat 777 on the YUL-CDG route - no wonder!

Please observe the numbers for YVR -DEL at 142,0000.
That's more than YYZ -ICN, YYZ - PVG, and nearly equal to YYZ - MNL (and, of course, Phillipine Airlines just got landing rights there).

Closer to home, YVR - DEL exceeds not only YVR -MNL, but also YVR - NRT, YVR - ICN, and YVR - PEK !!

(Not to mention YUL - LHR.)

And all the experts say there isn't enough market to start a direct YVR- DEL service.
Oh. Really? Star Alliance wants to hang on to that route via LHR or FRA. The fact is, that IS a major market, and it pays, as long as it's handled by AC and LH.
IS the yield factor too low on a direct YVR-DEL run? That's the only other explanation I can see as to why either someone doesn't start a direct service, be it AC,or Jet Airways, whatever.
And IMO this is very telling evidence of why Ottawa wanted to keep EK out of YVR.

OK Star-Alliance, you win. For the time being, anyway.

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Please observe the numbers for YVR -DEL at 142,0000.
That's more than YYZ -ICN, YYZ - PVG, and nearly equal to YYZ - MNL (and, of course, Phillipine Airlines just got landing rights there).

Closer to home, YVR - DEL exceeds not only YVR -MNL, but also YVR - NRT, YVR - ICN, and YVR - PEK !!

(Not to mention YUL - LHR.)

And all the experts say there isn't enough market to start a direct YVR- DEL service.
Oh. Really? Star Alliance wants to hang on to that route via LHR or FRA. The fact is, that IS a major market, and it pays, as long as it's handled by AC and LH.
IS the yield factor too low on a direct YVR-DEL run? That's the only other explanation I can see as to why either someone doesn't start a direct service, be it AC,or Jet Airways, whatever.
And IMO this is very telling evidence of why Ottawa wanted to keep EK out of YVR.

OK Star-Alliance, you win. For the time being, anyway.

These numbers don't make any sense. How in the world can there be 143K pax between YYZ-MNL when it only started a month prior, 3 days a week? There is no YVR-DEL so that also doesn't make any sense. I'm not sure what these numbers are trying to say.

[Hourglass]

^^

I think these figures are for final destinations of passengers rather than direct flights. For instance, there is a significant Indian population that would fly to South Asian destinations via London, Frankfurt or Hong Kong -- despite the lack of a nonstop flight ex-YVR.

@Trofirhen> the problem with flights to India from Canada are that the price points are very low even though the passenger numbers are very high. That's one of the reasons that the 787 could be a gamechanger for Air Canada, allowing them to launch thinner, long haul routes.

[craneSpotter]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

^^

I think these figures are for final destinations of passengers rather than direct flights. For instance, there is a significant Indian population that would fly to South Asian destinations via London, Frankfurt or Hong Kong -- despite the lack of a nonstop flight ex-YVR.

Yes, this is what I understand.

The stats are enplaned pax only (from/to destination), this is market info. I probably mislead a bit by using the word route instead of market, sorry.

The info was posted by one the airgeeks at airliners.net.

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by craneSpotter

Yes, this is what I understand.

The stats are enplaned pax only (from/to destination), this is market info. I probably mislead a bit by using the word route instead of market, sorry.

The info was posted by one the airgeeks at airliners.net.

It would still be nice to have an actual source for this info. I'm questioning YVR-DEL vis-a-vis YYZ-DEL, just as an example. I doubt they would be that close to be honest.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

^^

I think these figures are for final destinations of passengers rather than direct flights. For instance, there is a significant Indian population that would fly to South Asian destinations via London, Frankfurt or Hong Kong -- despite the lack of a nonstop flight ex-YVR.

Don't you really mean Star Alliance, LH and AC, who currently seem to have the major market share to India?

@Trofirhen> the problem with flights to India from Canada are that the price points are very low even though the passenger numbers are very high. That's one of the reasons that the 787 could be a gamechanger for Air Canada, allowing them to launch thinner, long haul routes.

I can appreciate the low yield aspect playing a large role here, yes. As far as the (hopefully de-jinxed) 787s entering service, I wonder if this could include something from YVR over the pole to India, or such.

Vancouver is not only probably -- and keeping that role will be ever more challenging ---
the major Asian (more precisely, East Asian) gateway to Canada, but also Canada's Oceania (Sydney, Auckland, one day hopefully Melbourne) hub, modest as it may be.

{(Remember the brief mention of YVR as a mini Virgin Atlantic-V Pacific-(?& V-America?)}

I saw on a chart here the range of the 787, and even with that, YYZ was still beyond nonstop SYD and AKL range.

I'm wishin' and hopin' - as is evryone here, I'm sure- that eventual, over the pole, 787 service YVR to DEL --- maybe even DBX or DOH ... (who knows? ... dare one dream?) ... could combine synergistically to form YVR into perhaps an unexpectedly convenient, however modest the synergy-- hub.

[deasine]

I don't believe YVR-DEL direct would be one of the first routes. As I mentioned before, the Indian market is a very tricky one: O&D only, long route for an O&D, cost of fuel in India specifically is high relative to other countries. Internally, none of their international carriers are making money: AI is just a full subsidy airline from the gov't, 9W is struggling financially and is looking for outward investment (most likely partial ownership from EY), and we all know what happened to IT (Kingfisher).

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

^^

I think these figures are for final destinations of passengers rather than direct flights. For instance, there is a significant Indian population that would fly to South Asian destinations via London, Frankfurt or Hong Kong -- despite the lack of a nonstop flight ex-YVR.

@Trofirhen> the problem with flights to India from Canada are that the price points are very low even though the passenger numbers are very high. That's one of the reasons that the 787 could be a gamechanger for Air Canada, allowing them to launch thinner, long haul routes.

Originally Posted by deasine

I don't believe YVR-DEL direct would be one of the first routes. As I mentioned before, the Indian market is a very tricky one: O&D only, long route for an O&D, cost of fuel in India specifically is high relative to other countries. Internally, none of their international carriers are making money: AI is just a full subsidy airline from the gov't, 9W is struggling financially and is looking for outward investment (most likely partial ownership from EY), and we all know what happened to IT (Kingfisher).

Will YVR ever break out of its LHR, FRA, AMS limits, flying eastward or even "over the top?" Ever?

[spm2013]

Originally Posted by teriyaki

At the same time though, AC is dropping capacity on this route.

Vancouver – Seoul Incheon eff 01JUN13 Service reduces from daily to 4 weekly

Maybe they are just balancing their new Toronto-Seoul service starting in 2013.

The launch on June 2 of a new Toronto-Seoul service operating three times a week, creating a fifth Asian destination from Air Canada’s Toronto hub. The year-round service, operated with a Boeing 777-300ER aircraft, will complement existing Vancouver to Seoul service by providing daily departures from Canada to Seoul

http://www.thestar.com/life/travel/2012/11/29/air_canada_makes_huge_push_into_asia.html