PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[summersm343]

Penn Medicine CEO Kevin Mahoney on expansion plans in Montgomery County and Philadelphia

We are planning a new outpatient center in Montgomery Township — Penn Medicine North Wales — at Route 202 and Welsh Road. Like our Penn Medicine Radnor [center], it will be essentially a hospital without beds. It will have chemotherapy, radiation oncology, outpatient surgery and all of our specialty care — anchored with primary and behavioral health. It will be probably 150,000 to 160,000 square feet. We are working closely with the township and we want to be a good neighbor. It's currently a greenfield site. We are maintaining a lot of the buffer, so we think it will get approved. We hope to be in the ground within a year.

Article behind paywall here:
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...cx_testVariant=cx_8&cx_artPos=8#cxrecs_s

[Urbanthusiat]

Phoenixville Borough Council OKs mixed use project at old slaughterhouse site

PHOENIXVILLE — Borough council on Tuesday voted 6-1 to approve a plan to demolish all buildings on an abandoned slaughterhouse site on Bridge Street and replace it with a mixed-use building with 375 apartments, more than 40,000 square feet of commercial space and an extension of Hall Street.

[summersm343]

^^Love it. Phoenixville is on fire.

[PHLtoNYC]

^ I'm sorry, I have to... Per the article.

"The project will allow widening of that part of Bridge Street, make it more walkable and will put all the utilities underground."

Phoenixville can do it...

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Yes, I know. But, urban areas with high crime gentrify and redevelop all of the time. Within Philly, this is happening in neighborhoods like Brewerytown, Olde Kensington, East Kensington, Norris Square, Point Breeze, Grays Ferry, Ludlow, Templetown/Temple area, West Powelton, Dickson Square West/Dickinson Narrows, Germantown, West Powelton, Parkside, Strawberry Mansion, Allegheny West, etc. etc.

Yes, I know. But none of these areas you mentioned are in the same boat as Norristown for a variety of reasons and you cannot compare them.

Furthermore, 1.1% really is not that much. I chuckle a little inside even when people mention the 3.8% income tax rate in Philadelphia. Most municipalities have at least a 1% income tax at this point. 1.1% is literally an additional $1,100 a year if you make $100K per year, and $2,200 annually if you're a household making $200K per year. Not make or break honestly. What's the property tax rate in Norristown? I was under the impression that property taxes in Norristown were pretty on par for the surrounding area?

If you could get a nicely renovated townhome in Norristown for $300K? Totally worth it and the additional income tax won't even matter at that point. You're not getting a townhome in any surrounding area (save for maybe Bridgeport) for less than $500K at this point. If the Main Street and the area around the municipal complex continues to build up?? With public transit access into the city?? Norristown will have a very positive future.

You chuckle when you give your income away and get nothing back for it? Not I, and I want to keep as much in my pocket as possible. And more money in one's pocket could go back into the economy in other ways and maybe even more than the income tax would generate. Point being it's a tough sale to give up more of your income for a worse situation [in its current state] when you have so many other options a few blocks away.

The current total millage rate is 59.517, one of the highest in MontCo. For reference Plymouth Meeting is 30.82, East Norriton is 46.244... Norristown also has an additional occupational tax that its neighbors do not have and you receive a yearly bill for that.

But yes Norristown could have a better future but it's going to take a lot and there are many better options around it that provide you with the same access.

[EastSideHBG]

Boarded-Up Sumneytown Pike Home, Neighboring Parcel to Be Demolished for ‘Wheatley Walk’ Townhome Development

https://northpennnow.com/boardedup-sumne...cel-to-be-demolished-for-w-p5285-103.htm

[el don]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Yes, I know. But none of these areas you mentioned are in the same boat as Norristown for a variety of reasons and you cannot compare them.


You chuckle when you give your income away and get nothing back for it? Not I, and I want to keep as much in my pocket as possible. And more money in one's pocket could go back into the economy in other ways and maybe even more than the income tax would generate. Point being it's a tough sale to give up more of your income for a worse situation [in its current state] when you have so many other options a few blocks away.

The current total millage rate is 59.517, one of the highest in MontCo. For reference Plymouth Meeting is 30.82, East Norriton is 46.244... Norristown also has an additional occupational tax that its neighbors do not have and you receive a yearly bill for that.

But yes Norristown could have a better future but it's going to take a lot and there are many better options around it that provide you with the same access.

100% agree with you, and you haven't even brought up the High or how the poor are essentially warehoused there (along with Pottstown and a little bit of Lansdale) with section 8 heavily concentrated there in MontCo.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by el don

100% agree with you, and you haven't even brought up the High or how the poor are essentially warehoused there (along with Pottstown and a little bit of Lansdale) with section 8 heavily concentrated there in MontCo.

Yes unfortunately that is another piece of the equation that is a big roadblock right now. And some people get fooled passing through certain sections like they would in a place like Compton, CA where they think hey this doesn't look so bad but it's actually really bad. My old block is a great example and if you went by just looks alone you wouldn't suspect a thing. But the reality, oooh boy! Total nightmare and if I didn't see it and live it I probably wouldn't have believed it myself.

It's a big problem with these small PA municipalities and once a cancer starts spreading it's easy for it to consume almost the entire thing and why they rank so high when the per capita is factored in.

I keep in touch with a few of my old neighbors and we are all happier but we do miss things about it and wish it could be different. But it needs a ton of work to be a viable option for a person who is looking for a nice normal life.

[PHLtoNYC]

^ Where did you relocate to?

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

It's a big problem with these small PA municipalities and once a cancer starts spreading it's easy for it to consume almost the entire thing and why they rank so high when the per capita is factored in.

I have a good friend that used to live in Norristown and eventually moved to the Phoenixville due to constant "quality-of-life" issues in his neighborhood and around town, so I don't blame anyone for making that personal decision.

But I think it's too often that in the process of judging places, we are often examining the independent behaviors of individuals who reside in a given area. As a result, we pile on by vilifying the place itself. I'm probably setting up an OT discussion of psychology, but it does get intertwined in so much discussion about cities.

I think, for all of the troubles places like the Norristowns of the world experience (not unlike a number of inner-city Philadelphia neighborhoods), they still matter, have worth, and have potential. I just reject the idea of casting entire places aside due to being the residence of a number individuals who make some very sad and unfortunate life choices.

At the end of the day, we can't forget that only individuals create an environment that may make places less desirable, but it's not inherent to the place itself.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Yes, I know. But none of these areas you mentioned are in the same boat as Norristown for a variety of reasons and you cannot compare them.

Trust me, this is one thing I do not disagree with you at all on. I know Norristown has problems, and I don't know it very well at all honestly. I take your word for it because you lived there so you're an expert on the town. I was just saying that Norristown absolutely has the potential to be something great because of it's urban nature, walkability and public transit access. It could be a great walkable town where you can get a newly rehabbed townhouse in the $300s. Similar to a Bristol. Even better than a Bristol honestly, because all of the areas around Bristol are working to middle class, where all of the areas around Norristown are middle to upper-middle to upper class. This used to be Phoenixville, Ambler and Media as well, but even those towns are getting very expensive.

You chuckle when you give your income away and get nothing back for it? Not I, and I want to keep as much in my pocket as possible. And more money in one's pocket could go back into the economy in other ways and maybe even more than the income tax would generate. Point being it's a tough sale to give up more of your income for a worse situation [in its current state] when you have so many other options a few blocks away.

The current total millage rate is 59.517, one of the highest in MontCo. For reference Plymouth Meeting is 30.82, East Norriton is 46.244... Norristown also has an additional occupational tax that its neighbors do not have and you receive a yearly bill for that.

But yes Norristown could have a better future but it's going to take a lot and there are many better options around it that provide you with the same access.

No, I meant for the city of Philadelphia solely, because I'm very familiar with it. I'm not too familiar with Norristown and all of it's ins and outs - tax millage rates, income tax rates.

For the city of Philadelphia solely, I hear people all of the time whom are looking at buying either a home in the city or a home in the suburbs, and they complain about the city wage.... but a lot of the time, property taxes in the city are so low compared to surrounding suburban municipalities, that you may end up at a wash when factoring in wage tax & property tax in the city VS a lower wage tax but higher property tax in the suburbs.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

^ Where did you relocate to?

Not too far and I hopped the border (literally, like right over it ha ha) and am in East Norriton for now. Instant raise due to the lower taxes, immediate QOL upgrade...night and day. And unfortunately this was just from moving down the road so it just goes to show how easy it is to not live in Norristown yet still have access to everything.

But for the record the NPD and FD are awesome and I can't say enough about them. Also, never had an issue w/ trash service (but over the years the snow plowing did slack off unfortunately), so it's not like the QOL issues are across the board and it was mostly just about the crime and how crazy frequent it was, all types too.

Originally Posted by UrbanRevival

I have a good friend that used to live in Norristown and eventually moved to the Phoenixville due to constant "quality-of-life" issues in his neighborhood and around town, so I don't blame anyone for making that personal decision.

But I think it's too often that in the process of judging places, we are often examining the independent behaviors of individuals who reside in a given area. As a result, we pile on by vilifying the place itself. I'm probably setting up an OT discussion of psychology, but it does get intertwined in so much discussion about cities.

I think, for all of the troubles places like the Norristowns of the world experience (not unlike a number of inner-city Philadelphia neighborhoods), they still matter, have worth, and have potential. I just reject the idea of casting entire places aside due to being the residence of a number individuals who make some very sad and unfortunate life choices.

At the end of the day, we can't forget that only individuals create an environment that may make places less desirable, but it's not inherent to the place itself.

I can see where you are going with this but it's all one in the same to me, as besides the residents you also have the local government who may or may not be doing their jobs, hurting the situation vs helping, etc.

Originally Posted by summersm343

Trust me, this is one thing I do not disagree with you at all on. I know Norristown has problems, and I don't know it very well at all honestly. I take your word for it because you lived there so you're an expert on the town. I was just saying that Norristown absolutely has the potential to be something great because of it's urban nature, walkability and public transit access. It could be a great walkable town where you can get a newly rehabbed townhouse in the $300s. Similar to a Bristol. Even better than a Bristol honestly, because all of the areas around Bristol are working to middle class, where all of the areas around Norristown are middle to upper-middle to upper class. This used to be Phoenixville, Ambler and Media as well, but even those towns are getting very expensive.

But the part in bold is exactly the issue and there are comparable and better places to live and the spread is too wide; it would be easier to sell middle class on an area trying to clean up vs the upper class. We are in agreement on the potential of Norristown but I am not on board with the reality of it due to many factors.

No, I meant for the city of Philadelphia solely, because I'm very familiar with it. I'm not too familiar with Norristown and all of it's ins and outs - tax millage rates, income tax rates.

For the city of Philadelphia solely, I hear people all of the time whom are looking at buying either a home in the city or a home in the suburbs, and they complain about the city wage.... but a lot of the time, property taxes in the city are so low compared to surrounding suburban municipalities, that you may end up at a wash when factoring in wage tax & property tax in the city VS a lower wage tax but higher property tax in the suburbs.

But your car insurance drops by a lot (usually) and you pay 2% less in sales tax so the nod typically still goes to the 'burbs when comparing overall costs. And if you move into a place like Upper Merion (KOP) you still have no local income taxes!

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

^ I'm sorry, I have to... Per the article.

"The project will allow widening of that part of Bridge Street, make it more walkable and will put all the utilities underground."

Phoenixville can do it...

Countdown to Cardeza explaining why we can't do anything.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

^ I'm sorry, I have to... Per the article.

"The project will allow widening of that part of Bridge Street, make it more walkable and will put all the utilities underground."

Phoenixville can do it...

the lack of comprehension around construction and costs is mind boggling. If you are doing a major road or bridge project it may make sense to relocate or bury utilities- the cost increase vs the core project is negligible. This does not mean it is cheap, realistic or intelligent to go around saying all existing power and communications lines in an entire freakin city should be buried or that private developers should be expected to bury century old lines around their property just to improve aesthetics that many don't even notice.

[EastSideHBG]

Sad, a nice mall but that area is building up quickly and this is a good opportunity:

PREIT to Sell Exton Square Mall as It Tries to Raise Funds to Pay Down Debt

The Exton Square Mall is a 1-million-square-foot property that is 50% occupied and has sales of $283 a square foot

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/bus...t/3178631/?_osource=SocialFlowFB_PHBrand

[summersm343]

VA plans to close its hospital in Coatesville in massive restructuring

The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs has proposed closing its hospitals in West Philadelphia and Coatesville due to population shifts and the fact that more care is being provided outside hospitals.

The potential closure of the Coatesville VA medical center represents another health-care blow to a region in Chester County that lost Jennersville Hospital on Dec. 31 and then Brandywine Hospital on Jan. 31.

U.S. Rep. Chrissy Houlahan, a Democrat who represents Chester County, reacted with dismay to the prospect of losing a 302-bed facility that offers in-patient behavioral health and substance-abuse treatment.

“I’m inclined to fight the Biden Administration on the proposal,” she said in a statement, but she plans first to talk with “veterans in our community who would be most impacted by this potential move to get their views and concerns.”

The services at the Coatesville facility would be shifted to other VA properties, including new outpatient facilities planned nearby. Residential rehabilitation for substance-use disorders would be moved to proposed new facilities in Camden, King of Prussia, and Wilmington.

Built in 1930 and located on 129 acres, the Coatesville facility would cost $120.8 million to bring up to modern design standards, the VA said.

The hospital operates longterm care, a pharmacy and two community outpatient clinics. It employed 1,212 full-time employees in 2021, including 180 nurses and 35 physicians, according to its web site. Its operating budget was $184.6 million.

Read more here:
https://www.inquirer.com/business/health/va-hospital-philadelphia-coatesville-close-20220316.html

[EastSideHBG]

Owner of Plymouth Meeting Mall concerned about company’s viability

PREIT, weighed down by $1.2 billion in debt and loan maturities on the horizon, has “substantial doubt” about its ability to remain in business over the next year, according to its annual report filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

The Philadelphia owner of regional malls came to that conclusion after evaluating its current financial condition, funds it has available, future cash flows and debt payments coming due. More immediately, PREIT has a loan referred to as the FDP Loan, which is backed by Fashion District Philadelphia and has a balance of $194.6 million that matures January 2023.

https://morethanthecurve.com/owner-of-plymouth-meeting-mall-concerned-about-companys-viability/

[summersm343]

^^Not too worried about it. If they do go under, any of their malls will be bought pretty quickly and kept alive or redeveloped. The malls they own:

Fashion District Philadelphia - this one turned out to be a pretty good mall. Plus, as PREIT flounders, this mall will get fully taken over by their partner in the project, Macerich.

Cherry Hill Mall - the best mall in South Jersey. Would be bought quickly.

Willow Grove Park - pretty good mall for the Northern Philly PA burbs. Would be bought quickly.

Plymouth Meeting Mall - pretty good mall with decent activity even with it's proximity to KOP. Would be bought quickly.

Cumberland Mall in Vineland, NJ - unsure about this one, but seems like a pretty straightforward suburban mall.

Exton Square Mall - we already know they're selling this one for redevelopment.

Moorestown Mall - pretty standard suburban mall. Haven't been to this mall in a long, long time, but seems like it's OK and mostly full.

Springfield Mall - again, seems like a pretty standard suburban mall. I've never actually been to Springfield Mall either, but seems like it'd be fine and seems mostly full.

[mcgrath618]

While I certainly lament for the people whose livelihoods will be shattered if PREIT fails, I cannot lament for the company itself.
I disagree with the idea that the Fashion District is a good mall. Round 1 and the AMC are the only reasons I've ever been there. The structure is appalling from ground level and the renovations haven't done much to solve that.
We'd all be better off if National Land (or almost anyone else for that matter) bought it, razed it, and developed something better in its stead.

As for the other malls, the Cherry Hill Mall would definitely survive. Plymouth Meeting's days are certainly numbered, however. Other than the LEGO Experience it's pretty dead.
The Springfield Mall will probably close eventually too, but they'll hold out longer than Plymouth Meeting.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by summersm343

^^Not too worried about it. If they do go under, any of their malls will be bought pretty quickly and kept alive or redeveloped. The malls they own:

Fashion District Philadelphia - this one turned out to be a pretty good mall. Plus, as PREIT flounders, this mall will get fully taken over by their partner in the project, Macerich.

Cherry Hill Mall - the best mall in South Jersey. Would be bought quickly.

Willow Grove Park - pretty good mall for the Northern Philly PA burbs. Would be bought quickly.

Plymouth Meeting Mall - pretty good mall with decent activity even with it's proximity to KOP. Would be bought quickly.

Cumberland Mall in Vineland, NJ - unsure about this one, but seems like a pretty straightforward suburban mall.

Exton Square Mall - we already know they're selling this one for redevelopment.

Moorestown Mall - pretty standard suburban mall. Haven't been to this mall in a long, long time, but seems like it's OK and mostly full.

Springfield Mall - again, seems like a pretty standard suburban mall. I've never actually been to Springfield Mall either, but seems like it'd be fine and seems mostly full.

Springfield Mall has a Septa Trolley stop in it's back parking lot. It should be torn down and redeveloped into a walkable mixed use TOD. It's literally at the cross roads of 3 thriving communities (Swarthmore, Springfield, Media).

You could build an even more authentic version of Ellis Reserve (Newtown Square) at this location seeing as it is integrated with public transit.

Edit to add, it actually has two Trolley Stops: Springfield Mall and PaperMill Rd.