VIA Rail

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

VIA is branding. The assets are owned by the Government of Canada and can be given to anybody else to manage. The government is proposing that a single entity manage the Corridor and HFR, the Private Development Partner (PDP) in these documents. Nothing says there PDP can't change branding or subcontract operation.

And Kingston, London, Kitchener, Niagara Falls and Windsor services which never leave the province or country might be better branded as some kind of Express service between regular GO suburban trains and interprovincial services. Something like Paris Transilien trains between RER and TGV.

I get that, but the fact that the returning Northlander is not going to be branded as GO anything tells me that the province likely will not want to take over any Via service unless forced.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I get that, but the fact that the returning Northlander is not going to be branded as GO anything tells me that the province likely will not want to take over any Via service unless forced.

GO has been taking over Via services for years, with Via now largely irrelevant in the Kitchener and Niagara routes. GO is massively more efficient.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by acottawa

GO has been taking over Via services for years, with Via now largely irrelevant in the Kitchener and Niagara routes. GO is massively more efficient.

I didn't realize Via had cut service to Kitchener. The only Via service to Niagara has been the Maple Leaf.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I didn't realize Via had cut service to Kitchener. The only Via service to Niagara has been the Maple Leaf.

VIA still serves Kitchener.

However I believe it's fewer daily trains now than it was 15 years ago.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

VIA still serves Kitchener.

However I believe it's fewer daily trains now than it was 15 years ago.

I think it's down to one per day.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I think it's down to one per day.

You are right! It is the one that leaves Toronto at 1740 for Sarnia. and heads to Toronto from Sarnia at 840. The Windsor ones all go the southern route.

[Innsertnamehere]

didn't VIA run 3-4 daily trains through Kitchener to London up until very recently?

THe problem on that route is the track condition is getting so poor that travel times are insane.

With the province extending GO service to London now, they are spending money to upgrade track speeds on the corridor like they have east of Kitchener in the last few years so travel times should improve, if VIA is even running any service still.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

didn't VIA run 3-4 daily trains through Kitchener to London up until very recently?

THe problem on that route is the track condition is getting so poor that travel times are insane.

With the province extending GO service to London now, they are spending money to upgrade track speeds on the corridor like they have east of Kitchener in the last few years so travel times should improve, if VIA is even running any service still.

The problem is the feds have not and will not spend money on maintenance. Maintenance is an ongoing cost, not a one time cost. Ignoring maintenance partially as a result of cutting frequencies gives us what we currently have. The line should have been bought and managed years ago by Via and the freight railways charged for useage. There used to be 5 daily trains a day in each way.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

didn't VIA run 3-4 daily trains through Kitchener to London up until very recently?

THe problem on that route is the track condition is getting so poor that travel times are insane.

With the province extending GO service to London now, they are spending money to upgrade track speeds on the corridor like they have east of Kitchener in the last few years so travel times should improve, if VIA is even running any service still.

Yes, before GO they ran several trains per day.

GO is massively cheaper and more frequent and basically ate Via's lunch.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Yes, before GO they ran several trains per day.

GO is massively cheaper and more frequent and basically ate Via's lunch.

2015, they ran 2 through Kitchener. One of them only went to London and back.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

You are right! It is the one that leaves Toronto at 1740 for Sarnia. and heads to Toronto from Sarnia at 840. The Windsor ones all go the southern route.

The Toronto-London-Windsor line has always been favoured over Toronto-Kitchener-London-Sarnia.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The Toronto-London-Windsor line has always been favoured over Toronto-Kitchener-London-Sarnia.

It is a proper mainline.

[J81]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Yes, before GO they ran several trains per day.

GO is massively cheaper and more frequent and basically ate Via's lunch.

It is indeed cheaper but it is not more frequent and its 30 minutes longer between Union and London through Kitchener and its twice as long than the front way through Brantford. So if you compare the actual number of trains between Union and London VIA has GO beat 5-1.

There is one GO train per day that departs at 1619 and its 30$ one way and takes 4hours. 87 leaves at 1740 costs 60$ and arrives 50 minutes after the GO train for a total trip time of 3h29. I take it youve never taken a GO train before? Theres a reason why that train is empty between Kitchener and London. Nobody wants to spend 4 hours on a commuter train.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by J81

It is indeed cheaper but it is not more frequent and its 30 minutes longer between Union and London through Kitchener and its twice as long than the front way through Brantford. So if you compare the actual number of trains between Union and London VIA has GO beat 5-1.

There is one GO train per day that departs at 1619 and its 30$ one way and takes 4hours. 87 leaves at 1740 costs 60$ and arrives 50 minutes after the GO train for a total trip time of 3h29. I take it youve never taken a GO train before? Theres a reason why that train is empty between Kitchener and London. Nobody wants to spend 4 hours on a commuter train.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear, I was talking about the Kitchener service.

[J81]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

2015, they ran 2 through Kitchener. One of them only went to London and back.

Actually they both ran until the pandemic. I cant remember if it was September of 2021 or the start of the pandemic when trains 85-88 were cut.

[J81]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Sorry if I wasn’t clear, I was talking about the Kitchener service.

Ah! Well you cant really compare the two as far as Kitchener. VIA isnt a commuter service and GO isnt a long distance service. So i wouldnt say GO ate VIA’s lunch considering VIA never had any plans to ever run anymore trains than they did to Kitchener.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J81

Actually they both ran until the pandemic. I cant remember if it was September of 2021 or the start of the pandemic when trains 85-88 were cut.

I didn't look for when it was cut. Just picked a random year and checked.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by J81

Ah! Well you cant really compare the two as far as Kitchener. VIA isnt a commuter service and GO isnt a long distance service. So i wouldnt say GO ate VIA’s lunch considering VIA never had any plans to ever run anymore trains than they did to Kitchener.

Via used to run two morning trains more or less serving commuters. Now they run one train mid day, presumably timed for convenience of Sarnia passengers.

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by J81

Actually they both ran until the pandemic. I cant remember if it was September of 2021 or the start of the pandemic when trains 85-88 were cut.

They were already cut with the first Covid schedule on Tuesday, March 17, 2020 and remain a hot contender for being the last pre-Covid frequencies to be reinstated. At the previous round of cuts, trains 86 (a morning train commuter departure from London to Toronto) and 89 (an evening departure in the opposite direction) were cut on October 25, 2012.

[Truenorth00]

People get way too wrapped up on things as they are. Stops them from imagining what the service should actually be. Personally, I couldn't care less about what colour the train is or what branding the ticket stock has. I only care about getting a service that works.

I think there needs to be three levels of service:

1) Suburban rail. This is what GO is becoming. Frequent service. 15 min headways. Maximum coverage of about 100 km. No reservations. 5-15km stop spacing.

2) Regional service. This might be routes like Toronto-Kingston or Toronto-Niagara Falls. Max distance of about 250 km. Hourly service. No reservation required. Stop spacing of 20-50 km.

3) Intercity express service. Hourly service minimum. Stop spacing of at least 50 km. Higher speeds. Reserved seating.

VIA mixes up the second and third categories right now and does both in a rather mediocre fashion. Getting an operator that separates the two categories and tailors service appropriately is a good idea. And I'm glad the HFR project is finally getting there. The next step should be to hand over all the Toronto centric regional services to Metrolinx.