LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[Illithid Dude]

Concerning City House/ Olympic, I don't thin the height is an issue. That area of downtown is going to get taller. In a couple years, a 60 story tower won't look out of place. My issue is the tacky, tacky design. Sure, there is a chance that they could pull off the design- perfect ornament, limestone, wrought iron. That isn't going to happen. Just look at LaGrange in Chicago- it's going to be poorly-proportioned concrete junk. Really, there is only one building in the past ten years that pulled off a pre-war high-rise (relatively) well, and condos in that building are going for tens of millions of dollars- a price point that won't fly not just in DT, but anywhere in L.A.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by alki

Citywatch, you always manage to find the most unflattering pictures of old DTLA.

alki, actually, if anything, the pic that I at first was going to post in this thread cuz I think it shows a more complete angle of the hood can be found here. I'm not sure if such pics are any more or less flattering....or unflattering....than any other, as much as that's just the way the hood was. that was the reality.

btw, I think most american cities a long time ago weren't all that great looking too, so the problem wasn't unique to LA.

I think some ppl overlook that history & instead romanticize LA of the past. when they do that, they're more likely to not understand why things moved in a certain direction. So they'll blame cars & fwys, or the lack of transit, or even ppl's love of sprawl, as THE big factor behind the city's condition.

I bet if more of the city had been put together properly & nicely from the very beginning, everything then & today would have turned out differently.

Bunker Hill was a fail because people don't like walking a block to go from one building to the next. Stop driving thru DTLA and start by walking Seventh from Fig to Broadway; then the length of Grand Avenue on Bunker Hill.

Cities take care of what's important. At some point in the 1970s or 1980s, most LA movers and shakers decided DTLA was not important. There were some holdouts but even the LA Times had given up on DTLA.

But to the average person, the big failure of BH is not so much that it's too impersonal or hard to navigate, but that it still has large, very visible sections that remain parking lots or empty fields. I think that's what stands out in most ppl's mind, & what makes them more about or unimpressed with the hood.

If ppl started giving up on dt, it occurred largely around the early 1990s, esp during the time following the riots. That's when more of the biggies in city govt thought $$ should instead be poured into fixing up hoods way to the south, around watts or on the other side of USC. The POV at that time actually was that enough effort & $$ had been put into dt, so giving that part of the city much attention & money was no longer necessary.

When ppl thought that way, that's when it was obvious that many of them didn't realize or weren't willing to admit just how the hood was. Maybe it was willful ignorance? part of it also was due to some ppl wanting to say that although parts of dt like broadway were slummy, it was an authentic kind of slummy cuz such streets had lots of ppl....even though most of them were cash strapped...on it.

[colemonkee]

WARNING: Gratuitous Photo Update Ahead

I took a walk inside the newly open Grand Park, or at least the half of the park that's open. My initial read on the park is that it feels like part park, part public square. There's a lot of hardscape - a little too much - but it still works, and deals with the change in grade pretty well. The were a lot of people there on a hot Saturday afternoon, and I can see this being a regular tourist spot for people hitting up Disney Hall. Here's a brief photo tour. All pictures taken by me.


Hill Street Entrance Looking West - The lawn at the bottom of the park is decent sized, but they're already having issues with the drainage, and are already having to fix some dead, flooded grass.


Sandwiched Between Buildings - The park would be much more open - and twice the size - if the Stanley Mosk Courthouse had been demolished. But it's actually quite nice walking in between the buildings. I was worried the park wouldn't feel wide enough, but it does.




Vegetation - The planters are all over the place, but they've planted plants from different regions of the world and labeled them, so that a major feature of the park is going around and looking at all of the plants from around the world.


Seating - There are benches and chairs and tables throughout the park, like this little alcove that outlooks the main lawn area. Perfect for an outdoor lunch.


The Fountain - This is definitely the star of the show, at least for the western half of the park. The extended fountain is HUGE, and the water makes all the hardscape seem less, well, hard. There were a lot of kids playing in the fountain, and parents in the surrounding plaza sipping on iced teas and coffees from the Starbucks in the park.




Looking down on the newer part of the fountain from the foot of the old fountain.


From the plaza just above the fountain, which has a row of pink tables. The green-roofed building houses a Starbucks and public restrooms, with mirrored glass walls.


Grand Ave. Entrance - looking east from the western edge of the park along Grand Ave.

[colemonkee]

Broad Museum

From earlier today. It's starting to come together, but for such a small building, it's taking a while. My camera focus was a bit soft on this shot for some reason.



From the same side of Grand Ave., you can see the slope of the lobby in the front.

[BrandonJXN]

I just came back from Grand Park and I must say it's quite nice. Like colemonkee, I was a bit afraid that it would feel enclosed due to the county buildings but no. It's an inviting, warm park that's not all concrete. I don't like the pink benches but a minor complaint.

And the fountain is indeed gigantic. You really need to see it in person.

[Mojeda101]

*Note: Massive wall of pictures*

Just came back from my visit from downtown and I took plenty of pictures! Grand Park was fantastic. Exceeded by expectations. I had no idea it'd be so crowded. The community pool was a great touch. Seeing all the kids play with the parents chilling in the shade drinking a coffee. So many different types of plants too! I can't imagine how it's going to look like when all the plants grow. I was told that the park doesn't extend all the way to Hope St, but a lot of pedestrians that were there to see the park actually crossed the street to see that fountain too, it felt like park of Grand Park if you ask me.

While I was in the area I walked down to The Broad and decent progress has been made. I'm curious when they will begin on the residential towers, but LA can wait, it always has. Due to the position of the building, I couldn't get a good shot and I never got the chance to cross the street and take one for that particular angle like Colemonkee.

Anyways, I also took a trip to go see how the Courtyard Marriott was doing and they've made a ton of progress since yesterday! A lot of cement was added and more steel is rising. It's finally above ground level! I went to go eat in the Ritz and the waiter told me it would be just a tad bit taller than the 26 story wing of the Ritz even if being 3 stories short of 26. I have no idea how he had this information but it's a start.

I swung by the Wilshire building to see if any visual changes have been made. I took a peak inside the lobby and a lot of the textures and carpet have been stripped. I also noticed the top floor was missing curtains and it was darker than the other floors. Unfortunately, I couldn't get a good shot.

I then swung by LA Live. They added a few new monitors in the area. It's starting to become a time square look alike! The center was blocked off, and I noticed a few labor workers working on the floor tiles, I have no idea what they were doing. Anyone have word on this?

Well that was my trip, enjoy the pictures!

Grand Park























































Courtyard Marriott












Work in LA Live

[citywatch]

Great pics, colemonkee & mojeda! Improvements like the new park are the reason why I think dt today is better than it was in the past. In some ways, I think it's better than it has ever been in the city's history.....even back when dt still was one of the few centers in LA, not too many ppl actually lived in the hood. So with all the ppl living in various nooks & crannies of dt, it's actually becoming more of a complete place.


• Video Link

^ one of the main guests in the vid mentions the olympics in london....I notice knbc is having a live remote segment from LA live everyday during the games. They were really plugging the various restaurants at LA live a few hrs ago, so AEG must be giving plug money to the TV station.

[202_Cyclist]

Good photos but refrain from taking photos when you're driving. It is not worth killing yourself or someone else to get a photo.

[Mojeda101]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

Good photos but refrain from taking photos when you're driving. It is not worth killing yourself or someone else to get a photo.

If referring to me, to be fair, I was in the drivers seat =P

I can't wait to see this park double in size and be finished! It's going to be great! I've never seen that part of LA so populated, and i'm not talking just the park. There were dozens of people in the streets and sidewalks just walking around the area. These are the things LA needs.

[sings twin]

Great photos, thanks so much for posting.

They seem to be really getting on well with the Marriott building. Seems to have sped up in the last couple of weeks. I would think they are well on schedule for their proposed Mid 2014 opening.

Looking good.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by Mojeda101

*

[IMG]http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a268/mojeda101/IMG_1650.jpg

Interesting to see people sticking to the islands of shade.

I see this in Seattle a lot. Designers assume that people here (and probably everywhere) want to hang out in the sun. But here, if it's sunny and over 70, we're huddled around trees. Guess LA is no different, though people's threshholds are probably hotter. Which sounds more suggestive than intended.

[RST500]

My biggest fear is that the LA Central site gets fillled in with some crapy low rise like what happened to the Liebeskind Tower site. Wasn't this area supposed to be LA's version of Time Square?

[Mojeda101]

Originally Posted by mhays

Interesting to see people sticking to the islands of shade.

I see this in Seattle a lot. Designers assume that people here (and probably everywhere) want to hang out in the sun. But here, if it's sunny and over 70, we're huddled around trees. Guess LA is no different, though people's threshholds are probably hotter. Which sounds more suggestive than intended.

Yep, I noticed this a lot.






Everyone either loved to take off their shoes and relax in the shade or go off and get them wet in the water. This park is an absolute joy.

[LAofAnaheim]

Is Grand Park the only park in Los Angeles where there is a subway station entrance in the MIDDLE of the park? Pershing Square and MacArthur Park have subway entrances across the streets. The Red/Purple Civic Center station is literally in the middle of the park (once the Hill - Broadway park portion opens later in August).

This is a HUGE selling point to bring people together from all of LA!

[Illithid Dude]

I was downtown today to try out Industriel and there were more pedestrians around then I have ever seen- and not just around Grand Ave. Down Spring, 7th, Hill, Hope, there were literally throngs of pedestrians. Any sidewalk seating that a cafe might have was full. Stores were buzzing. It was the most crowded, the most alive, the most- normal- I've ever seen downtown. And yes, I say normal. I think the stigma of downtown being a 'developing, gentrifying' neighborhood has finally vanished. I think it is safe to say that downtown is post-gentrification, that it is a real, fantastic, urban neighborhood, not just a neighborhood that had the capability to be fantastic. Suffice to say, I was happy.

Oh, and 7th and Grand looks almost complete, and very nice. The materials they used are really great, and the whole complex has a super clean, minimal, 'iRobot' look.

[The Dirty Goblin]

7th and grand? you mean, 7th and fig, right?

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by colemonkee

I was worried the park wouldn't feel wide enough, but it does.

your comment made me look more closely at what the area was like as recently as the 1950s, & it's the first time I've ever realized that the civic ctr mall area originally was divided, west to east, by another street. I've never noticed that before....I've long assumed that 1st st has always been the only street south of temple since the beginning of time. I can't figure out what that street name or number was....


digitallibrary.usc.edu

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

I was downtown today to try out Industriel and there were more pedestrians around then I have ever seen- and not just around Grand Ave. Down Spring, 7th, Hill, Hope, there were literally throngs of pedestrians.

best kind of post! It helps give everyone a better sense of what's going on at a certain moment, certain day. I've wondered how industriel has been doing in attracting customers....one review of it posted several wks ago was from someone who had mixed emotions about it, & implied that could be the reason it didn't have too many diners compared with bottega louie not far away on on 7th st. beyond that, 6th St around Olive & Grand has been off the beaten path for quite awhile, esp a few yrs ago when the bldgs where the milano lofts & library lofts are now located still were mostly vacant.

[Kingofthehill]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

I was downtown today to try out Industriel and there were more pedestrians around then I have ever seen- and not just around Grand Ave. Down Spring, 7th, Hill, Hope, there were literally throngs of pedestrians. Any sidewalk seating that a cafe might have was full. Stores were buzzing. It was the most crowded, the most alive, the most- normal- I've ever seen downtown. And yes, I say normal. I think the stigma of downtown being a 'developing, gentrifying' neighborhood has finally vanished. I think it is safe to say that downtown is post-gentrification, that it is a real, fantastic, urban neighborhood, not just a neighborhood that had the capability to be fantastic. Suffice to say, I was happy.

Oh, and 7th and Grand looks almost complete, and very nice. The materials they used are really great, and the whole complex has a super clean, minimal, 'iRobot' look.

Dunno, man. Biking through and hanging out in the area (probably will move there late next yea - hayyyy), there definitely has been a huge increase in pedestrians. The change from March 2011 (when I moved to Argentina) to May 2012 (when I came back from DC) has been phenomenal, and most certainly is noticeable. I was hanging out with friends @ Broadway/9th the other night, and at Pattern Bar (Spring/9th)..."suffice to say," there was nothing post-gentrification about those areas. A post-gentrified area is somewhere like Venice, Silverlake, Chelsea, Fort Greene, Prospect Heights, Lincoln Park, Dupont Circle, much of Boston, etc. Abandoned/heavily underused buildings, empty streetscapes at a night, and a dearth of retail and commercial offerings (at least on Broadway/9th), a generally blighted feeling, along with a huge, well-entrenched homeless population are not what I would consider to be the trappings of a post-gentrified area. The latter felt like SF's SoMa or the middle section of NYC's Broadway at night.

Also, Downtown's stigma as a place to socialize may have gone away, but as a place to live? I am we still have quite some way to go in that regard. In general, though, even if people are not quite ready to live there, they readily acknowledge and praise how far it is come, which I think is a great thing.

In addition to visiting friends who live there, I regularly bike along 12th and visit a friend who works at Handsome Coffee in the Arts District. Again, not to be a negative nancy, but there is lots of work to be done all across Downtown, especially when it is held up to the downtowns of other, world-class cities. That said, Downtown has really been developing at a fast clip lately. I would say that there should be huge, tangible changes within the next 2-3 years. We just need to find a way for it to break out of the restaurant-café-bar cycle, and further expand its retail amenities.

Broadway/8th, looking north:

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by Kingofthehill

Dunno, man. Biking through and hanging out in the area (probably will move there late next yea - hayyyy), there definitely has been a huge increase in pedestrians. The change from March 2011 (when I moved to Argentina) to May 2012 (when I came back from DC) has been phenomenal, and most certainly is noticeable. I was hanging out with friends @ Broadway/9th the other night, and at Pattern Bar (Spring/9th)..."suffice to say," there was nothing post-gentrification about those areas. A post-gentrified area is somewhere like Venice, Silverlake, Chelsea, Fort Greene, Prospect Heights, Lincoln Park, Dupont Circle, much of Boston, etc. Abandoned/heavily underused buildings, empty streetscapes at a night, and a dearth of retail and commercial offerings (at least on Broadway/9th), a generally blighted feeling, along with a huge, well-entrenched homeless population are not what I would consider to be the trappings of a post-gentrified area. The latter felt like SF's SoMa or the middle section of NYC's Broadway at night.

Also, Downtown's stigma as a place to socialize may have gone away, but as a place to live? I am we still have quite some way to go in that regard. In general, though, even if people are not quite ready to live there, they readily acknowledge and praise how far it is come, which I think is a great thing.

In addition to visiting friends who live there, I regularly bike along 12th and visit a friend who works at Handsome Coffee in the Arts District. Again, not to be a negative nancy, but there is lots of work to be done all across Downtown, especially when it is held up to the downtowns of other, world-class cities. That said, Downtown has really been developing at a fast clip lately. I would say that there should be huge, tangible changes within the next 2-3 years. We just need to find a way for it to break out of the restaurant-café-bar cycle, and further expand its retail amenities.

I think perhaps me using the phrase 'post-gentrification' might have not been the wisest idea. There are people that would readily argue that downtown will always be gentrifying, at least in some part. It's too open ended of a phrase, too loosely defined. And so, let me clarify:

It's not that I don't believe that downtown can't be improved, or that this is the best that downtown can get, as I believe the exact opposite, that there is room for untold improvement, and the best that downtown can be is still far off into the distance. Downtown, for me, has had this stigma of being a sort of an 'experiment', a 'fad', where a few hipsters (there I go using that word again) live in some brick-walled lofts and generally act artsy and harmless. Downtown, according to this stigma, won't take hold as a real neighborhood. I feel like this has changed, that downtown is a real, permanent, important neighborhood, and that L.A. proper has realized this. Just look at the rate new developments sell or lease out- The Jeffries has been on the market for a few short months and is already over half leased. From what I saw today, downtown is no longer 'revitalizing', but is officially 'revitalized'. Yes, there are areas that need to be improved (Broadway, the Lower Historic Core), but taken as a whole, downtown has finally reached critical mass.

[LA/OCman]

Downtown is really a microcosm of Los Angeles in its entirety. Vibrant areas adjacent to dead zones, beauty next to not so beautiful and gentrification always around the corner. Having bought here 5 plus years ago, both KOTH and Illithud Dude are correct in their assessment. Change is happening very fast...abeit too slow me.

I remember when I first bought in that beautiful building at 9th and Broadway and the KOR group had a party for the future homeowners at the Broadway Bar. The energy and excitement in the bar was amazing. Then...you walked out and the homeless were sleeping on the street, the facades of the neighboring buildings were dirty and there were drug dealers hanging out on Hill. I began to question what I was doing..but the building was beautiful and the "bones" in the neighborhood were good. I never regretted my decision.

In 10 years, people will still complain about the same problems...but they will complain less and the streets will be more vibrant than today. We are entering the second phase of Downtown's renaissance now. We have more parks, more great restaurants, more schools, better public transportation and more residents. Downtown is really becoming the center of Los Angeles. The next chapter is going to be very exciting. If you don't already do this, pressure the politicians like Jose Huizar (to address signage/blight on Broadway) and the County to address the homeless problem with faster solutions. I have seen a lot of changes occur because we won't tolerate the status quo in areas of Downtown.