[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[OldDartmouthMark]

Yeah, you can't rule out the psychological effect on customers due to construction. I remember there was an article about how pedestrians feel intimidated about walking by construction sites and some posters here admitted that it affects them personally. There's also a lot of talk here about how Cogswell shuts off the north end from the downtown and recently about how the new retail spaces on Brunswick are still vacant. A lot of peoples' actions are based on their perceptions of an area, and how easy or convenient they think it will be to get where they want to go - if they perceive it as being too much of a bother they'll go somewhere else.

Again, I don't know if that's the case here, but that section of Argyle was closed off for awhile and it's been a mess for longer than that. It must have an effect on businesses directly adjacent to the construction moreso than others. If a business was just keeping their head above water before construction then I can easily see how construction could tip them over the edge. It's been said that Lot Six is doing well, but it's new. Why did the business (Pipa?) before it fail? How are the other bars doing on the street?

I dunno, to me it seems valid to suspect that the massive construction project right across the street is having a negative affect on business, and it seems reasonable to believe that once it is finished and operational, that business should be better than ever.

I'm not offended that construction is given as a reason, and I'm not critical of a guy using whatever means available (crowdfunding or a subsidy if it's being made available) to get his business over a rough patch to be able to survive and take advantage of the benefits of the new construction after the fact.

I have to say takes a certain amount of fortitude to be putting his neck out there, making himself a target for all the armchair quarterbacks to judge his business plan on public forums and whatnot (even being commented on by a councilor on the radio), all in the interest of keeping his business going. That's a guy who truly believes in what he's doing.

I wish him the best.

[RangerNS]

I've said it elsewhere, but perhaps only in <140 characters at a time.

Have any of these struggling venues across the street from dozens-hundreds of transient workers considered doing anything to service those workers? I'm thinking $20/day, 7AM-3PM bottomless coffee, and a hot lunch.

If overalls offend you, make it take out only.

Or, just change nothing, and ask for a handout.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by RangerNS

I've said it elsewhere, but perhaps only in <140 characters at a time.

Have any of these struggling venues across the street from dozens-hundreds of transient workers considered doing anything to service those workers? I'm thinking $20/day, 7AM-3PM bottomless coffee, and a hot lunch.

If overalls offend you, make it take out only.

Or, just change nothing, and ask for a handout.

Good point!..sounds like do nothing and look for handouts

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by RangerNS

I've said it elsewhere, but perhaps only in <140 characters at a time.

Have any of these struggling venues across the street from dozens-hundreds of transient workers considered doing anything to service those workers? I'm thinking $20/day, 7AM-3PM bottomless coffee, and a hot lunch.

If overalls offend you, make it take out only.

Or, just change nothing, and ask for a handout.

Or half price beer at the end of the day?

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Or half price beer at the end of the day?

Yeah I don't think there is one bar on Argyle St that has a Happy Hour

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

Yeah I don't think there is one bar on Argyle St that has a Happy Hour

Or lunch

[Hali87]

From the Carleton's website:

#HFXPylonClub

Created on November 30, 2015
Written by Mike Campbell
As I’m sure those of you living in Halifax are aware, the Nova Centre construction is negatively affecting most of the businesses surrounding it and never so obviously as right now – during the lead-up to Christmas – usually one of the busiest times of the year. So, rather than taking it lying down, a lot of us are embracing the #HFXPylonClub, which offers discounts during the month of December for new and existing customers.

We encourage everyone to support this initiative and to frequent the businesses involved – for our part, we’re offering 10% off our lunch menu. You can also get deals at Inkwell, The Foggy Goggle, The Wooden Monkey, Bikram Yoga Halifax, Indochine Barrington, The Loop, Biscuit, Economy Shoe Shop, Lost Cod, Sailor Bups, World Tea House, Applehead Studio, The Apothercary Bakery, Attica and Le French Fix, with more to follow I would think.

The HFX Pylon Club buttons are being distributed (show yours to get in on the deals) but if you don’t have one, just mention to your server that you support the initiative and that’ll be good enough for us.

Hope to see you during December and please consider using the hashtag #HFXPylonClub when on your social networks!

A quick search reveals that The Carleton, Foggy Goggle, Economy Shoe Shop, Loose Cannon, Bitter End, Argyle B&G, and the Auction House all have happy hours. Others might as well but I got bored of searching.

Most of them are listed here: http://www.thecoast.ca/halifax/LocationSearch?alphaGroup=e&feature=Featured%20Happy%20Hour

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Hali87

From the Carleton's website:



A quick search reveals that The Carleton, Foggy Goggle, Economy Shoe Shop, Loose Cannon, Bitter End, Argyle B&G, and the Auction House all have happy hours. Others might as well but I got bored of searching.

Most of them are listed here: http://www.thecoast.ca/halifax/LocationSearch?alphaGroup=e&feature=Featured%20Happy%20Hour

Yeah, they offer lunch too (I was being sarcastic).

Apparently at 10% off...

https://www.facebook.com/DowntownHalifax/videos/10153273756941179/

[Hali87]

Past / Future by Hali87, on Flickr


Nova Centre / Grafton by Hali87, on Flickr

I wonder how much the Nova Centre construction has affected the businesses on Grafton St? (serious question)

[fenwick16]

Nice perspectives Hali87.

I hope the Argyle businesses can survive until the Nova Centre starts attracting conventions and pedestrian traffic.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Hali87

Nova Centre / Grafton by Hali87, on Flickr

I wonder how much the Nova Centre construction has affected the businesses on Grafton St? (serious question)

This perspective shows a remarkable change in the streetscape. I suspect there is likely some effect to businesses on Grafton, since there are a couple of bars at the far end by the Metro Center that are now cut off from Pizza Corner, Maxwell's and the Stubborn Goat at this end. Add to that the elimination of street parking that used to exist on the block of Grafton that is under construction and it has to have some effect.

[Drybrain]

Tim Bousquet has a very panicky entry in this morning news roundup today, making all kinds of tenuous links between the Nova Centre, Argyle Street, Chinese ghost cities, and his theory that urbanization represents the dying gasps of late-stage capitalism (seriously).

It's all a bit much, and pertaining to the Nova Centre, I think he's wrong about two things (he thinks the Argyle bar district will be destroyed, and he thinks the Nova Centre's architecture is horrible).

But wade through all that and you get to at least one indisputable fact, which is that the Centre is coming into an already very vacancy-saturated office market. It's either going to end up significantly vacant, or it'll cannibalize older office space. Either way it'll drive vacancy rates even higher. It's going to take quite a while, I bet, for office demand to rebalance with the amount of space on the market, and therefore probably many years before we see any significant new office construction.

[someone123]

Ugh, where to begin with the office market stuff?

The important thing as far as the health of downtown is concerned is absorption rates, not vacancy rates. Having empty space to backfill in older buildings is not a bad thing, and Halifax had almost no new office inventory downtown for decades. It's just crazy that there is so much negativity now that private-sector office development is finally happening on a significant scale and there are some attractive new buildings.

The same sort of vacancy rate peaks happened in cities like Calgary, Houston, and Atlanta when they were very successful office markets. It takes a while for new inventory to be absorbed and for older inventory to be backfilled. Only in Halifax have I seen this kind of negativity.

There is a big problem with HRM encouraging poorly planned office park development, but that gets comparatively little attention. HRM industrial parks should be for industrial businesses that need the space, not office type businesses that are just taking advantage of the subsidies.

There's also an accessibility problem downtown that needs to be solved with better transit.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

The same sort of vacancy rate peaks happened in cities like Calgary, Houston, and Atlanta when they were very successful office markets. It takes a while for new inventory to be absorbed and for older inventory to be backfilled. Only in Halifax have I seen this kind of negativity.

You've got to love the analyst from Turner Drake who just flat-out says downtown will NEVER EVER recover. What powers of prediction!

[Phalanx]

Michael Turner of Turner Drake was interviewed about the report on CBC the other day. He specifically mentioned the industrial parks and the conflict of interest since they were owned and operated by HRM. He implied (while being cautious about offering opinions) that the solution would be for HRM to divest itself of the parks and privatize them.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by someone123

Ugh, where to begin with the office market stuff?

The important thing as far as the health of downtown is concerned is absorption rates, not vacancy rates. Having empty space to backfill in older buildings is not a bad thing, and Halifax had almost no new office inventory downtown for decades. It's just crazy that there is so much negativity now that private-sector office development is finally happening on a significant scale and there are some attractive new buildings.

The same sort of vacancy rate peaks happened in cities like Calgary, Houston, and Atlanta when they were very successful office markets. It takes a while for new inventory to be absorbed and for older inventory to be backfilled. Only in Halifax have I seen this kind of negativity.

There is a big problem with HRM encouraging poorly planned office park development, but that gets comparatively little attention. HRM industrial parks should be for industrial businesses that need the space, not office type businesses that are just taking advantage of the subsidies.

There's also an accessibility problem downtown that needs to be solved with better transit.

In the late 80s I was a frequent and outspoken opponent of office buildings in Burnside. Not popular with certain developers and definitely not popular with the councillors who sat on the Dartmouth 'Industrial Commission'; and even less popular when I started exposing the accounting irregularities of the Dartmouth financial statements relating to 'Burnside sale of land account' which had no legal basis. Roger Taylor covered the issue extensively in the Herald much to the annoyance of councillors and the city manager.
It all came to a head at Municipal Affairs and legislation & regulations were amended.
It is ludicrous for HRM to develop land for sale at less than cost and indirectly subsidize businesses. Spending money expanding Burnside makes no sense when privately owned development of Dartmouth crossing is next door.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

You've got to love the analyst from Turner Drake who just flat-out says downtown will NEVER EVER recover. What powers of prediction!

The Nova Centre will apparently only have about 150,000 square feet of office space. That's actually a fair bit less than several existing office developments in Halifax, and only about a 3% change to the inventory downtown.

TD was about 100,000 square feet, and it was occupied last year. Waterside Centre was years before that. Really what we are talking about here is a roughly 2% annual increase in the amount of downtown office space over a 5 year period.

How will the city survive?

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by someone123

The Nova Centre will apparently only have about 150,000 square feet of office space. That's actually a fair bit less than several existing office developments in Halifax, and only about a 3% change to the inventory downtown.

TD was about 100,000 square feet, and it was occupied last year. Waterside Centre was years before that. Really what we are talking about here is a roughly 2% annual increase in the amount of downtown office space over a 5 year period.

How will the city survive?

Wouldn't the natural progression of things involve some of the older buildings losing office tenants to some of the newer buildings, which then opens up the opportunity to repurpose them to other uses? The Radisson Hotel Hilton Doubletree Suites on Hollis was formerly office space. The former Canada Permanent building where Starbucks and Durty Nellys are on the ground floors became apartments. If, for example, one of the Purdy's Towers lost a significant number of office tenants, it could become a killer condo development. Same with the Homburg Building up on Brunswick.

Bousquet must have scored some good drugs on the weekend. It is really sad to see such a constantly negative voice seemingly have so many devotees.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Colin May

In the late 80s I was a frequent and outspoken opponent of office buildings in Burnside. Not popular with certain developers and definitely not popular with the councillors who sat on the Dartmouth 'Industrial Commission'; and even less popular when I started exposing the accounting irregularities of the Dartmouth financial statements relating to 'Burnside sale of land account' which had no legal basis. Roger Taylor covered the issue extensively in the Herald much to the annoyance of councillors and the city manager.
It all came to a head at Municipal Affairs and legislation & regulations were amended.
It is ludicrous for HRM to develop land for sale at less than cost and indirectly subsidize businesses. Spending money expanding Burnside makes no sense when privately owned development of Dartmouth crossing is next door.

That's excellent you were fighting that fight, back then Colin. Much to your credit.

Really gross and irresponsible stuff.

What we need is:

(1) a moratorium on new office space outside the core. London ON has done this, to great success to help their previously suffering downtown core.
(2) a significant business park tax imposed on offices out in Burnside and elsewhere.

This will level the playing field. HRM has subsidized this crappy business parks for decades; time for the pendulum to swing the other way.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Tim Bousquet has a very panicky entry in this morning news roundup today, making all kinds of tenuous links between the Nova Centre, Argyle Street, Chinese ghost cities, and his theory that urbanization represents the dying gasps of late-stage capitalism (seriously).

It's all a bit much, and pertaining to the Nova Centre, I think he's wrong about two things (he thinks the Argyle bar district will be destroyed, and he thinks the Nova Centre's architecture is horrible).

But wade through all that and you get to at least one indisputable fact, which is that the Centre is coming into an already very vacancy-saturated office market. It's either going to end up significantly vacant, or it'll cannibalize older office space. Either way it'll drive vacancy rates even higher. It's going to take quite a while, I bet, for office demand to rebalance with the amount of space on the market, and therefore probably many years before we see any significant new office construction.

You know, I think Bousquet is a hard working journalist, relentless, etc, and we should always be thankful for him finally ridding us of the Peter Kelly scourge.

But on stuff like this, he's literally a tinfoil hatter. I've always felt he is very anti-corporate, which leads him to be critical pretty much all developers downtown and by extension, he ends up being very anti-downtown investment himself; not overtly, but he seems very much against Halifax aiming to be "world class" and to really grow bigger; he'd prefer it to stay the same. Nova Centre represents progress and it runs counter to his conception of Halifax.

He's wrong about all of it.

If there's going to be any ghost towns, they're going to be found in the exurbs and suburbs. Not in urban downtowns. The tinfoil hat is one-size-fits all, it seems.