The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[caltrane74]

UPX Testing new DMU in Chicago...


RailPictures.net

[Chadillaccc]

Are the vehicles refurbished from somewhere else? They look quite... un-modern? If that's a thing.

[caltrane74]

Brand New.. and more being built

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Are the vehicles refurbished from somewhere else? They look quite... un-modern? If that's a thing.

They have to meet transport Canada regulations, which means they have to be large hulks like that. Euro style trains aren't allowed as they don't meet crash standards.

[caltrane74]

They are also high level platform trains, not ground level boarding like the O-Train in Ottawa.

The Smart Transit in California will use the same models.




SMART Transit

[Innsertnamehere]

Your second photo there is actually one for SMART.

O-train also received an exception from transport Canada regulations, they are not up to spec so to speak.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

They are also high level platform trains, not ground level boarding like the O-Train in Ottawa.

Eh? The O-Train has level boarding.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

They are also high level platform trains, not ground level boarding like the O-Train in Ottawa.

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Eh? The O-Train has level boarding.

Yeah, it is. Unless your idea of level boarding is walking onto the train from the gravel ballast.

Of course, I don't know if you're just joking around, or being serious.

[eemy]

They aren't low floor, which is what I think Aylmer meant. They would be the same boarding level as GO Trains though, from what I can tell.

[WhipperSnapper]

Definitely a retro vibe about them. Probably rank in the middle on aesthetics. O Train rocks and in red to boot.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Yeah, it is. Unless your idea of level boarding is walking onto the train from the gravel ballast.

Of course, I don't know if you're just joking around, or being serious.

Ok, I think I might not understand what you meant - you're saying that the UPX will have level boarding (no stairs or anything), right? I'm saying that the O-Train also has platforms at the same height as the train's floor.

Maybe I have my terminology mixed up?

[ehlow]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

I like elevated when it looks like this.




Not so much this.

I love your perspective on this. I have to agree with you, I prefer the top. It's grittier yes, but also more urban, cool, intimate and has more character & history than the bottom photo. But personally, I've always like the whole gritty New York atmosphere.

Also the iron elevated structures have much more character than the concrete highway-like pillars of Vancouver.

Anyways, re: Eglinton East being elevated, it's been discussed at length on urban toronto, but I'll give my 2 cents again.

I wouldn't mind if it were elevated, but I don't really believe it's necessary or necessarily worth the extra cost.

Firstly: it is more expensive, especially because the stations are much more elaborate than a simple surface stop, it has escalators, elevators and staff.

Then there's the question of the advantage in speed due to full grade separation. To get the speed boost you'd have to eliminate some stops, which you'd have to due to cost anyways. If you don't, you probably won't get much of a speed difference.

Having said that, even then I'm not sure it would make a big difference. The road is already pretty fast to drive in a car in the absence of traffic, so accounting for stoping at the stops, at-grade seems like it would be pretty fast to me already given the stop spacing, the traffic light spacing in terms of major and minor intersections. If traffic sync helps, and the delayed left turn in the Eglinton EA, I don't really think the transit vehicle will be waiting for a red light that often or for that long.

In terms of aesthetics, I like elevated and the view it gives, however, I also like the convenience of at-grade stops and the feeling that you are on the street with pedestrians and cars.

Riding the St Clair streetcar, it is slow due to extremely close stop spacing and intersection spacing, however, it's not a bad experience in my opinion, in terms of riding it or the view.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Ok, I think I might not understand what you meant - you're saying that the UPX will have level boarding (no stairs or anything), right? I'm saying that the O-Train also has platforms at the same height as the train's floor.

Maybe I have my terminology mixed up?

It's all good. I think jeremy explained it pretty well. Must have thought low floor, but it was just level boarding, there is a slight platform for the O-Train and the GO-Train, the UPX line uses something similar to the Toronto/Montreal Subway. There is a purpose built platform that you need to use to catch these trains. They will not be boarding at the same platform as the GO Trains.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

It's all good. I think jeremy explained it pretty well. Must have thought low floor, but it was just level boarding, there is a slight platform for the O-Train and the GO-Train, the UPX line uses something similar to the Toronto/Montreal Subway. There is a purpose built platform that you need to use to catch these trains. They will not be boarding at the same platform as the GO Trains.

But GO trains require a step up whereas the O-Train is exactly like the Métro, Subway or UPX: you can roll right on in, like stepping into a new room.

[caltrane74]

OK, I understand now, I was referring to the height of the platform visa vie the ground. Not whether you had to step up to get on.

[Innsertnamehere]

they are low floor however, as the floor is built around the trucks. High floor is when all that stuff is entirely below the floor level.

GO trains are low floor. VIA trains are high floor, although utilize low floor platforms. O-train is low floor. UPX is high floor and will use high floor platforms.

UPX also definitely has a higher floor than a regular GO train. a regular GO train can be accessed fairly easily from ground level, there are actually a couple of stations that require it. (Lincolnville, which doubles as a layover yard, literally has passengers walk into the yard and get on the GO trains)

[Aylmer]

Aha. Mystery solved.

It will forever be a mystery to me as to why there is almost no level boarding in Canada. The only example I know of are VIA's platform in Montreal. If you have a stroller, a bike, a wheelchair, baggage or you can't hoist yourself up a steep ladder/steps, taking the train is cumbersome, if not prohibitive. For everyone else, it means embarrassingly long boarding and alighting times as each and every passenger has to make their way down to the platform with their bags in tow as if we were disembarking into a 19th century frontier town. In Germany, France, Japan and countless other countries, you can have city, commuter, regional, intercity and high-speed trains stop at the same platform and they'll all be perfectly level. What is wrong with us that we can't do something as simple as raising the platforms for the sake of comfort, ease and efficiency, if not for accessibility?

/rant

[Nouvellecosse]

A lot of it comes down to sharing so much trackage with such huge (wide) freight trains. To have passenger stations all have high platforms, either all passenger trains would need to be as wide as the widest conceivable freight load allowing platforms to be built with that clearance, freight trains would be restricted in terms of their maximum width, or there would be a very big gap between the trains and the platforms. And since most of Canada's stations - even very large ones like Union - are, or originated as, pass through stations which are basically stops along the line rather than stubs dedicated to passenger service, the issue would affect nearly every station rather than the odd one here and there.

And having most of the trackage across the country owned and controlled by freight operators who put freight as #1 priority doesn't help either.

[Aylmer]

I would like to point out that the O-Train is narrower than most other passenger trains in Canada, yet has level boarding despite having shared the tracks with freight trains for years. It's been accomplished with retractable platform extensions.

And yes, passenger rail coming second to freight is another thing.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Definitely a retro vibe about them. Probably rank in the middle on aesthetics. O Train rocks and in red to boot.

I'd say that UPX is more distinctly Japanese in style than retro. I wasn't following the UPX project but as soon as I saw the pictures of the rolling stock I knew right away that a Japanese manufacturer was involved.

These admittedly weren't the greatest examples because I know I've seen Japanese trains that look a bit more like UPX, but they do have a similar aesthetic: