CHICAGO | Economic & Business Development

[twister244]

Originally Posted by CaptainJilliams

This! I've lived in other major cities (NYC, DC, and Houston) and had never heard of Citizen until moving to Chicago, and boy what a mess it is. It's more harmful than helpful in my opinion, especially with the unverified crime reports.

In my short time here, I've noticed just how obsessive the community is over every little crime that happens. In sharp contrast to my last home, Houston, I'd hear about many (and unfortunately experience) crimes from friends and neighbors that never made the local news, including some shootings. While going to the other extreme isn't good, there definitely needs to be more balance in Chicago when it comes to reporting crime. As others have shown, we can acknowledge that there are crime issues in the city as well as understanding the city isn't the warzone/nightmare so many make it out to be.

This is the first time hearing about this "Citizen" app..... And I will be sure to avoid it at all costs lol.

It would like if there was an app to show every single sex offender and where they live in your city. There are some disturbing aspects to humanity that you just don't want to be reminded about on a constant bases.

Instead, go out, live your life, meet new people, and make poor life choices at 3 AM on a Saturday night.

Chicago will be fine economically. We have the West Loop exploding, and there will be new companies in the future. LL definitely needs to go, and hopefully we replace her with someone that takes this stuff a little more seriously.

[CaptainJilliams]

I'm sure it's been discussed in the past, but with the Supreme Court officially overturning Roe v Wade, I wonder if this will signal some more potential business moves to Chicago/Illinois.

I remember Salesforce saying that they'd be willing to relocate employees to cities and states where they could have abortion access. Who knows, talk is cheap even with bigger companies, there may not be much traction at all. But just a thought.

[OrdoSeclorum]

Originally Posted by CaptainJilliams

I'm sure it's been discussed in the past, but with the Supreme Court officially overturning Roe v Wade, I wonder if this will signal some more potential business moves to Chicago/Illinois.

I remember Salesforce saying that they'd be willing to relocate employees to cities and states where they could have abortion access. Who knows, talk is cheap even with bigger companies, there may not be much traction at all. But just a thought.

There will be some moves. Just like Citadel was on the fence for a while, companies that are on the fence now somewhere else will use this as a justification. And companies in Chicago that were thinking about moving to Dallas will be a little less likely to. Talent acquisition is tough and educated workers don't like being told that their IUD might be in a legal grey area.

Similarly, some company in L.A. that was considering Austin, Miami, Denver and Chicago will be a little more likely to pare that list down to just Denver and Chicago, increasing our win-rate by a measure.

It also decreases the size of the pool where workers and talent who have the choice to move will move. If someone was on the fence between attending Brown or Rice, it's pretty understandable why a student who plans on having sex in college hopes to graduate would not want to attend Rice.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum

There will be some moves. Just like Citadel was on the fence for a while, companies that are on the fence now somewhere else will use this as a justification. And companies in Chicago that were thinking about moving to Dallas will be a little less likely to. Talent acquisition is tough and educated workers don't like being told that their IUD might be in a legal grey area.

Similarly, some company in L.A. that was considering Austin, Miami, Denver and Chicago will be a little more likely to pare that list down to just Denver and Chicago, increasing our win-rate by a measure.

It also decreases the size of the pool where workers and talent who have the choice to move will move. If someone was on the fence between attending Brown or Rice, it's pretty understandable why a student who plans on having sex in college hopes to graduate would not want to attend Rice.

I would imagine remote workers might move to Chicago over some other cities as well. Not many cities with lower cost of living in states that won't ban abortion...

[Chi-Sky21]

You can already look up where every sex offender is.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by CaptainJilliams

This! I've lived in other major cities (NYC, DC, and Houston) and had never heard of Citizen until moving to Chicago, and boy what a mess it is. It's more harmful than helpful in my opinion, especially with the unverified crime reports.

In my short time here, I've noticed just how obsessive the community is over every little crime that happens. In sharp contrast to my last home, Houston, I'd hear about many (and unfortunately experience) crimes from friends and neighbors that never made the local news, including some shootings. While going to the other extreme isn't good, there definitely needs to be more balance in Chicago when it comes to reporting crime. As others have shown, we can acknowledge that there are crime issues in the city as well as understanding the city isn't the warzone/nightmare so many make it out to be.

Originally Posted by glowrock

Thanks to everyone for all of the detailed crime information over the last decade and for the proper perspective, especially marothisu, the work you've put into the number crunching is commendable!

I just wanted to point out that it finally seems like CTA is getting better in terms of security on the L trains. The Blue Line has been much more peaceful as of late, even the Red has been improved over what it has been for the last year or two. Honestly, I'd say it's more a matter of increased ridership making it less convenient for stupidity to take place, but extra sets of eyes always help as well.

Lastly, the citizen app is a complete disaster, it's only purpose is to make everyone paranoid of their own shadows. Hyper focus on every instance of crime will turn people into psychos! I'd citizen based here or something? I've never lived in a city where everyone bashes their own city with such reckless abandon as I have here! It's as if everyone takes pride in referring to their city as a shithole. Honestly it's pretty sad.

Meanwhile, I'll still continue to live here, enjoy my time, and be pleased every day I don't live in a suburban nightmare. Heh

Aaron (Glowrock)

The interesting thing is that when I grew up, Chicagoans were known for boosterism and we all thought they were super annoying (I didn't grow up here) . When I think back upon it and more recent things in the last 15 years, it's more apparent to me now than before. The ability of the media especially to change ones perception of a place is actually really easy.

I remember moving to Chicago in 2009, before the Census came out. There really wasn't much chatter about how it's a hell hole and destined to be the "next Detroit". It existed but far less. People for the most part didn't seem to be beating themselves up though too much from what I remember. Then the 2010 Census came out - Chicago lost people and there was a rush of articles. People overnight seemingly started to beat themselves up and what a crap place they live in, etc. And then the city lost the Olympic bid. And then people started writing more and more about the crime and other issues. And then people kept bad mouthing the place and the amplification was really fast it seemed.

In 2014 I started living part time in NYC splitting with Chicago. Back then in NYC, new things were opening up all the time, new things being built, companies moving into NYC, new areas quickly gentrifying, etc. Everyone said they are the best, and nothing will change their opinion. It was actually fairly annoying. When I moved there full time a few years later, that still continued. Then, the Census a few years ago started estimating that NYC was losing population. I'm not joking but literally overnight people started bashing NYC - residents and non residents alike. It was just like being back in Chicago but maybe not as annoying. But it was definitely there. It's just crazy how 1 Census report changed everything in terms of how people felt about their city.

From that point on and really the start of the whole social unrest, the media in NYC started to focus more on crime but it still pales in comparison to here. There are small neighborhood specific publications that report some of the notable stuff which is how I knew, but yeah. Most of the visible bashing happens on Twitter, Facebook, etc articles. Citizen exists in NYC but a much smaller percentage uses it than here. But since NYC is big it's still a lot of people in terms of raw numbers. But if you were to ask on the street about it, most wouldn't know what it is. The focus here on crime needs to happen but it also needs to be balanced. As you see in my previous posts, there's really not some magical increase in a lot of areas (there is in some) of some types of violent crime. There is for Some of the problem in Chicago are very serious but I agree there needs to be a balance. I see accounts like CWB, CC, Vallas, Kass, etc and their followers, and those who go on Citizen as over to one direction too far. And then you have Lightfoot and Pritzker at some times who go far to the other side. I think both are fairly tone deaf. Other cities don't have this culture though - they don't have these accounts that report on literally every crime like here.

I can't tell if those fear mongers truly love Chicago and want to improve it, but it seems to me like they're doing it to build a mass of people who will vote various people out. Now that's not necessarily wrong if it's warranted but in the process they're dragging the city down. You have business leaders who read this stuff and while it might give them some good insights at times, when data is massaged to fit a narrative you want to control then it's not doing anybody any favors.


By the way, Citizen is actually from NYC and that was their first city. But they're more popular in other cities now I believe.

[Chisouthside]

The Chicago Bulls dynasty gave us our immense boosterism at the time

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by CaptainJilliams

I'm sure it's been discussed in the past, but with the Supreme Court officially overturning Roe v Wade, I wonder if this will signal some more potential business moves to Chicago/Illinois.

I remember Salesforce saying that they'd be willing to relocate employees to cities and states where they could have abortion access. Who knows, talk is cheap even with bigger companies, there may not be much traction at all. But just a thought.

It could end up being positive, but we'll see. I suspect there will be many people in states like TX and FL who will be looking for new states now. The scariest thing is that it opens the door up for some even more widespread crazy things, as Thomas has hinted at. I think if those happen then - oof. I think this will have a ripple effect as well in parts of the medical industry. You will have doctors afraid to do various things for patients just because they're afraid of some of the outcomes.

This is when some people figure out that sometimes your rights are more important than a 0% income tax when the alternative is some more rights but paying a 5% income tax. Money is important but not everything.

[Handro]

I think some context is important to remember: Chicago has been America's crime-addled whipping boy since just about the city's birth. Countless gallons of ink have been spilled by media all over the world since at least the 1860s about Chicago's swashbuckling criminals and penchant for corruption and debauchery. There are myriad reasons I'm sure--it quickly became the most important city in "the West" during the 18th century, far from the blue-blooded conservative WASPs of the East Coast. From that vantage point in the mid-19th century, it really was a devil-may-care type of place.

At the risk of getting political, racism also plays a significant role. The Irish and the Italians that got rich (both legally and otherwise) in the early 20th century made it easy to fearmonger about the city where Catholic immigrants had actual sway. More recently, it's the ideal major American city where black people have a significant history and political power for certain political persuasions to direct their (insincere) ire. Since it is in a state firmly run by "crime-loving" Democrats (unlike, say, Atlanta or Philadelphia or Houston) it's great at getting headlines on Breitbart and Fox. The sheer size of the city also makes the raw crime numbers eye-popping--the nuance of population size and crime rates goes right over many peoples' heads.

Match all that with the culturally conservative Bungalow Belt, and you have the perfect recipe for Chicago-bashing from inside the city.

This isn't to discount the crime in Chicago--of course it is a problem and has been since... well, the city's birth. Cities like Los Angeles and New York are much larger and have been able to get their crime under control. They face many of the same outside challenges that Chicago does, too, so there aren't many excuses besides 150 years of civic leadership unwilling or unable to get a grip on the issue.

But as marothisu has made clear time and again with the actual numbers, it's not nearly as bad as many Chicagoans and non-Chicagoans think (want?) it to be.

[thegoatman]

^Nah, Chicago didnt start being the right wing's punching bag until Obama got elected in '08. Plus thats when drill music blew up, and yeah...

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by twister244

This is the first time hearing about this "Citizen" app..... And I will be sure to avoid it at all costs lol.

It would like if there was an app to show every single sex offender and where they live in your city. There are some disturbing aspects to humanity that you just don't want to be reminded about on a constant bases.

Instead, go out, live your life, meet new people, and make poor life choices at 3 AM on a Saturday night.

Chicago will be fine economically. We have the West Loop exploding, and there will be new companies in the future. LL definitely needs to go, and hopefully we replace her with someone that takes this stuff a little more seriously.

In the meantime, we can boot Prekwinkle on Tuesday. That would be progress.

[Handro]

Originally Posted by thegoatman

^Nah, Chicago didnt start being the right wing's punching bag until Obama got elected in '08. Plus thats when drill music blew up, and yeah...

http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohisto...pages/352.html

Good summary. Chicago's image problem started way, way, way before 2008....

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by thegoatman

^Nah, Chicago didnt start being the right wing's punching bag until Obama got elected in '08. Plus thats when drill music blew up, and yeah...

Only the modern iteration.

They didn’t have internet or cable TV 100 years ago, but the newspaper articles were… creative. It’s like “Goddamnit, Chicago!” The city at the time has got a population smaller than Peoria and can’t even get out of the friggin 1850s without our favorite media classics. /s

Here’s a polite one

Atlantic Monthly, 1858, Illinois in Spring-time
To describe Chicago, one would need all the superlatives set in a row. Grandest, flattest,—muddiest, dustiest,—hottest, coldest,—wettest, driest,—farthest north, south, east, and west from other places, consequently most central,—best harbor on Lake Michigan, worst harbor and smallest river any great commercial city ever lived on,—most elegant in architecture, meanest in hovel-propping,—wildest in speculation, solidest in value,—proudest in self-esteem, loudest in self-disparagement,—most lavish, most grasping,—most public-spirited in some things, blindest and darkest on some points of highest interest.

And some poor souls would doubtless add,—most fascinating, or most desolate,—according as one goes there, gay and hopeful, to find troops of prosperous friends, or, lonely and poor, with the distant hope of bettering broken fortunes by struggling among the driving thousands already there on the same errand. There is, perhaps, no place in the world where it is more necessary to take a bright and hopeful view of life, and none where this is more difficult.

[jboy560]

In the Austin Economic Development thread, there’s already mention of someone saying lots of women in their social circle are planning to leave Texas for blue states and couples that were considering moving to Texas decided against it. The economic backlash of banning abortion might be big, especially considering the Supreme Court admitted to targeting contraception, gay rights, and other right to privacy decisions next.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by jboy560

In the Austin Economic Development thread, there’s already mention of someone saying lots of women in their social circle are planning to leave Texas for blue states and couples that were considering moving to Texas decided against it. The economic backlash of banning abortion might be big, especially considering the Supreme Court admitted to targeting contraception, gay rights, and other right to privacy decisions next.

I don’t have any good economic predictions, but I’ve always been bewildered by progressive Californians going to Austin.

Like, it’s great that Austin is said to be this progressive enclave in Texas… but Texas has this, uh, Big Cluster of hard-core evangelicals who have been itching for a court to let them crack the whip. And Catholics who will go hand in hand on the religious stuff.

Here was me in North Florida having to be careful of my words and behavior back then, and Florida has the weak sauce evangelicals. Waco, TX was Branch Davidian, but I was always wary about being under the jurisdiction of people who had a similar mindset


http://www.indexmundi.com/blog/wp-co...County-Map.png

The map above shows the rate of adherence per 1,000 people for all counties in the US (click on the map for the full-size version). Darker colors represent a higher rate of adherence. We split the data into five equal ranges: <200, 200-400, 400-600, 600-800, and > 800.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by jboy560

In the Austin Economic Development thread, there’s already mention of someone saying lots of women in their social circle are planning to leave Texas for blue states and couples that were considering moving to Texas decided against it. The economic backlash of banning abortion might be big, especially considering the Supreme Court admitted to targeting contraception, gay rights, and other right to privacy decisions next.

It's interesting to me those who don't believe this will have any impacts. Even down to doctors who may be treating various conditions and child ends up dying in the mother when abortion was not what the goal was could still be charged with something. I have heard of doctors in states like Texas being afraid of treating mothers In a certain way already and this makes it worse. Even if you are an uber driver and drive someone to get that done without even knowing there's something for you too.

Some people eventually realize that various rights aren't worth giving up for 0% income tax.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by marothisu

It's interesting to me those who don't believe this will have any impacts. Even down to doctors who may be treating various conditions and child ends up dying in the mother when abortion was not what the goal was could still be charged with something. I have heard of doctors in states like Texas being afraid of treating mothers In a certain way already and this makes it worse. Even if you are an uber driver and drive someone to get that done without even knowing there's something for you too.

Some people eventually realize that various rights aren't worth giving up for 0% income tax.

Hmm. There’s no doubt there will be some impact, but hard for me to see radically different migration trends at the moment because of it. Could definitely be wrong.

You would think droughts, natural disasters and/or collapsing energy grids would change people’s location decisions, but for millions it doesn’t.

Abortion wouldn’t be a regular factor for the typical person relocating - particularly if they are men. And 3/4 of women who have abortions are very poor. These corporate pay-for-abortion-travel offers are the epitome of limp-d**k responses. The CEOs know most of their employees won’t use them, and if so, they would not Put. It. On. Record.

I’m suspecting the usual initial outrage, and then people will go about their lives, ignoring the poor women who are impacted.

(My Mom worked in Southwest child adoptions for a decade, so I’ve heard a lot from the behind-the-scenes of adoption, abortion, CPS etc. )

[Via Chicago]

this isnt stopping at abortion.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

this isnt stopping at abortion.

Well, the solution is simple at that point.

"John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it.

The Executive Branch decides the Judicial Branch is batshit crazy and ignores them until the Legislative Branch gets its shit together and doesn’t rely on the filibuster and Judiciary for backdoor culture war laws.

(And the Supreme Court members get set adrift on a raft because half of D.C. is employed at or connected to these agencies. It would be nice if some of these justices have self-preservation instincts, but the solution is much tidier than that Twitter thread suggests.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

Hmm. There’s no doubt there will be some impact, but hard for me to see radically different migration trends at the moment because of it. Could definitely be wrong.

You would think droughts, natural disasters and/or collapsing energy grids would change people’s location decisions, but for millions it doesn’t.

Abortion wouldn’t be a regular factor for the typical person relocating - particularly if they are men. And 3/4 of women who have abortions are very poor. These corporate pay-for-abortion-travel offers are the epitome of limp-d**k responses. The CEOs know most of their employees won’t use them, and if so, they would not Put. It. On. Record.

I’m suspecting the usual initial outrage, and then people will go about their lives, ignoring the poor women who are impacted.

(My Mom worked in Southwest child adoptions for a decade, so I’ve heard a lot from the behind-the-scenes of adoption, abortion, CPS etc. )

I don't think it'll have a HUGE impact but it will have some impact. I also don't think that a lot of people care to see the impacts of climate change in areas that are already hot and/or get a lot of severe weather anyway. But I think that rights being taken away from them is more apparent and they will act more on it than climate change. There may be more kneejerk reaction but states like Texas are doing more than just taking away abortions. Declaring non-straight orientations as "abnormal" is just 1 step of more to come for them. Climate change though - many people who are have been in many parts of Texas or Florida most of their lives for example I'd argue are less bound to even notice these things. Like Houston going from an average high of 92 F to 94 F over 30 years isn't going to really make people scramble. But start taking away peoples' reproductive rights and even making doctors afraid of doing various things, not to mention the potential threat of other things will make people scramble way more than the average temperature going up 2 degrees over 30 years ever will.

Texas and Florida are also 2 states leading the charge with taking away or at least threatening to take away more than just reproductive rights. And I think to many people even the threat of that is scary. Just remember, some of the actual major climate change migration could be minimum 50 years away. But literally taking away rights is much faster and quicker. People know this - some people can anticipate it much better before others too.