Highways in Canada

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

I understand that. I know the area. And the GTA population. Perhaps I should put it this way. Metro Van has outdated (severely) 4-lane freeways. Brutally congested.

Perhaps we should just reduce the 18-lane 401 thru Mississauga back down to perhaps 6 or 8 lanes? Which will then `cause these commuters to utilize transit?

And perhaps the new Champlain Bridge in Montreal, across the St. Lawrence Seaway, should also be just a 4-lane drawbridge?

And perhaps the proposed new Gordie Howe International Bridge between Windsor and Detroit should also just be a 4-lane draw bridge?

Based on some the sentiments of other posters on here... that would be waaaaaayyyyy cool. But I have a background in transportation & logistics (understand highway design) and believe that I know better.

The Lower Mainland's population is about 2.6 million.

The Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area is about 6.6 million.

If the GTHA had 1/3 the population, then, the 401 could go back down to 6 lanes. (18/3=6)

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

The Lower Mainland's population is about 2.6 million.

The Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area is about 6.6 million.

If the GTHA had 1/3 the population, then, the 401 could go back down to 6 lanes. (18/3=6)

But that was not your initial point. Ya were backin`up someone witihin inner Van City proper (well know anti-highway fella on this site) who indirectly complained about expanding Metro Van`s freeway system (thru the 401 complaint), which is just a shadow of the GTA`s on a per lane & capita basis. Hell, Calgary, Edmonton and Montreal have larger systems, on a per lane & capita basis, than Metro Van. I know that. Anyone who understands highway transport knows that.

BTW, the pro-transit & anti-freeway crowd within Van City proper is legendary. Unlike anywhere else in Canada.

Methinks that there should be inner Torontonians that demand the reduction of the 400-series highways & lanes in the GTA and expand transit, eh?

Would look forward to that social-engineering experiment!

[Gdoggy]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

But that was not your initial point. Ya were backin`up someone witihin inner Van City proper (well know anti-highway fella on this site) who indirectly complained about expanding Metro Van`s freeway system (thru the 401 complaint), which is just a shadow of the GTA`s on a per lane & capita basis. Hell, Calgary, Edmonton and Montreal have larger systems, on a per lane & capita basis, than Metro Van. I know that. Anyone who understands highway transport knows that.

BTW, the pro-transit & anti-freeway crowd within Van City proper is legendary. Unlike anywhere else in Canada.

Methinks that there should be inner Torontonians that demand the reduction of the 400-series highways & lanes in the GTA and expand transit, eh?

Would look forward to that social-engineering experiment!

actually just the GTA is now over 6.7 million, the GTHA is about 7.5 million

Comparing Calgary and Edmonton (even montreal to an extent) to Toronto is apples and oranges.

Edmonton and Calgary are one large city surrounded by small towns.. the city dominates their populations by 4/5ths

Toronto is different, it makes up less than half of the metro area and has 13 cities with populations over 100,000.

Cities like Edmonton and Calgary do not require the infrastructure Toronto does. No matter how much transit you have, only a certain percent will ever use it. Transit in the suburbs is starting to grow... if the LRT in Peel gets done especially, but lots of people do not work in the city itself. We'd need to quadruple the subway system to service the suburbs like the city. Never gonna happen, so highways will always exist, and we will never in our lifetimes see less highways than we currently have in the GTA. In fact they get wider and even adding a couple new ones. In a decade the 407 will probably be doubled in size. Every 10 years the population of the GTA goes up over 1 million, there is no way transit is ever going to catch up to demand... highways are a must and vital to not only Toronto but to Canada as the economic engine of the country.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

But that was not your initial point. Ya were backin`up someone witihin inner Van City proper (well know anti-highway fella on this site) who indirectly complained about expanding Metro Van`s freeway system (thru the 401 complaint), which is just a shadow of the GTA`s on a per lane & capita basis. Hell, Calgary, Edmonton and Montreal have larger systems, on a per lane & capita basis, than Metro Van. I know that. Anyone who understands highway transport knows that.

BTW, the pro-transit & anti-freeway crowd within Van City proper is legendary. Unlike anywhere else in Canada.

Methinks that there should be inner Torontonians that demand the reduction of the 400-series highways & lanes in the GTA and expand transit, eh?

Would look forward to that social-engineering experiment!

It seems anyone who does not tow the line is a Troll.

In Canada, Toronto has proven that more lanes and more highways do not mean less congestion.

[haljackey]

I'd rather have one massive highway compared to 4 or 5 smaller highways that divide neighbourhoods in cities.

Only problem is that if it clogs up everyone is screwed as there are no alternate routes.

[GreaterMontréal]

Montréal has a massive highway network. within the CMA
A-30 - 122km
A-40 - 110km
A-15 - 100km
A-25/A-20 - 70km
A-20/A-720 - 50km
A-640 - 53km
A-10 - 35km
A-440 - 25km
A-35 - 23km
A-13 - 22km
A-19 - 7km (14km once finished)
A-520 - 8km
R-116/R-134 - 37km
R-132 - 20km

-10 bridges

2 of the 3 busiest bridges in Canada.
Champlain - 60M vehicles/year - 200M+ people/year, one of the busiest bridges in the world.
Jacques-Cartier - 36M/year

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

Montréal has a massive highway network. within the CMA
A-30 - 122km
A-40 - 110km
A-15 - 100km
A-25/A-20 - 70km
A-20/A-720 - 50km
A-640 - 53km
A-10 - 35km
A-440 - 25km
A-35 - 23km
A-13 - 22km
A-19 - 7km (14km once finished)
A-520 - 8km
R-116/R-134 - 37km
R-132 - 20km

-10 bridges

2 of the 3 busiest bridges in Canada.
Champlain - 60M vehicles/year - 200M+ people/year, one of the busiest bridges in the world.
Jacques-Cartier - 36M/year

And they still get congested.

However, they also have one of the better transit systems.

Now, if only Quebecers would stop talking about separating and it would be come an even better city.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

And they still get congested.

However, they also have one of the better transit systems.

Now, if only Quebecers would stop talking about separating and it would be come an even better city.

congested during the rush hour, but off-peak hours, very convenient.

nobody talk about separation in Montréal, it is not a topic of discussion since the Liberals won the election.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

congested during the rush hour, but off-peak hours, very convenient.

nobody talk about separation in Montréal, it is not a topic of discussion since the Liberals won the election.

My real point that of the 3 largest urban areas, Toronto just widens it's roads. Vancouver does nothing. And Montreal makes sure it has a mix of ways to get around.

The Smartrack plan for Toronto would go far to reduce congestion more than more lanes on the 401.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Now, if only Quebecers would stop talking about separating and it would be come an even better city.

Separation is no longer a cause for the relative stagnation of the economy of Montreal and has not been for over 15 years. This is not the 1980's. It is true that the city didn't enjoy the spectacular growth of Calgary, Vancouver and Toronto over that last decade, but the separatist movement had very little, if nothing to do with this situation as the movement lost a lot of its attractivity since 1995.

I personally think the only addition to its highway network Montreal would need is a new bridge between Hudson and Oka and the extension of highway 640 all the way to A40, so you can bypass the island by the North. Just a small stretch of highway and bridge are missing there. The A-19 extension project is not necessary IMO.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by le calmar

Separation is no longer a cause of the relative stagnation of the economy of Montreal and has not been for over 15 years. This is not the 1980's. It is true that the city didn't enjoy the spectacular growth of Calgary, Vancouver and Toronto over that last decade, but the separatist movement had very little, if nothing to do with this situation as the movement lost a lot of its attractivity since 1995.

I personally think the only addition to its highway network Montreal would need is a new bridge between Hudson and Oka and the extension of highway 640 all the way to A40, so you can bypass the island by the North. Just a small stretch of highway and bridge are missing there. The A-19 extension project is not necessary IMO.

widening of A-15 and/or connecting A-13 to A-50
http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2015/11/05/des-experts-recommandent-le-prolongement-de-la13

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I personally think the only addition to its highway network Montreal would need is a new bridge between Hudson and Oka and the extension of highway 640 all the way to A40, so you can bypass the island by the North. Just a small stretch of highway and bridge are missing there. The A-19 extension project is not necessary IMO.

The Mohawks would be most displeased.......

[vid]

An expansion joint on the Nipigon River Bridge, carrying Highway 11/17 and connecting Eastern and Western Canada, has failed, dropping part of the bridge by two feet. The bridge is closed for at least a week, possibly longer, while repairs are made. All trans-Canada traffic is being re-routed through the United States between Pigeon River and Sault Ste. Marie.


Highway 11 approaches from the North, and Highway 17 approaches from the East. Both are part of the Trans-Canada Highway. They merge just east of the Nipigon River, and this bridge carries that road over the river. There is no suitable alternate roadway to take, unless the old bridge is still in a useable condition. This bridge has only been open for less than two months.

http://www.tbnewswatch.com/News/379810/Newly_constructed_Nipigon_Bridge_splits_in_cold_

https://www.facebook.com/tbnewswatch/posts/10153196958155163


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[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by vid

An expansion joint on the Nipigon River Bridge, carrying Highway 11/17 and connecting Eastern and Western Canada, has failed, dropping part of the bridge by two feet. The bridge is closed for at least a week, possibly longer, while repairs are made. All trans-Canada traffic is being re-routed through the United States between Pigeon River and Sault Ste. Marie.


Highway 11 approaches from the North, and Highway 17 approaches from the East. Both are part of the Trans-Canada Highway. They merge just east of the Nipigon River, and this bridge carries that road over the river. There is no suitable alternate roadway to take, unless the old bridge is still in a useable condition. This bridge has only been open for less than two months.

http://www.tbnewswatch.com/News/379810/Newly_constructed_Nipigon_Bridge_splits_in_cold_

And this is what happens when a major choke point is blocked!

[vid]

Provided they have passports: any west-bound travellers at the bridge now face an 18 hour, 1,600km detour through the United States; east-bound travellers who choose not to shelter in Nipigon for the next week or so can take a 12 hour, 1,000km detour to Sault Ste. Marie through the US.

Nipigon has opened its community centre as a shelter for stranded travellers. Traffic east of the bridge is being directed to Terrace Bay, about 3 hours east, to seek shelter. A fair amount of people who live in the area are stranded on the opposite side of the bridge from their home or work, and all the communities regularly served by companies or warehouses from Thunder Bay are now cut off.

The road carries around 3,500 to 5,000 vehicles per day.

[Marty_Mcfly]

^I feel so....isolated. So cut off from the world.

[vid]

Most of Thunder Bay's supplies come from the west or by rail, so we're not going to be seriously impacted here, but the small towns along highways 11 and 17 are going to suffer. If this lasts more than a week, we might see states of emergency in a few communities.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by vid

Most of Thunder Bay's supplies come from the west or by rail, so we're not going to be seriously impacted here, but the small towns along highways 11 and 17 are going to suffer. If this lasts more than a week, we might see states of emergency in a few communities.

They really should have built that bridge on a new alignment and kept the existing bridge for local traffic to avoid the choke point.

Hint: always bring passports when going from east to west or vice versa. Just in case.

[Mister F]

I always wondered why there were spots in northern Ontario where there's only one road connecting east to west. It seems incredibly shortsighted. I understand that they're twinning the highway but you'd think they'd have built an alternate route a long time ago for just this reason.

[vid]

What they probably should have done is split the highway into east-bound and west-bound segments, with one travelling north of Nipigon and another travelling between Nipigon and Red Rock.

Hindsight is 20/20.

The old bridge was demolished last week.

To give you an idea of how dire this situation is for some people: not even bush roads connected north of that point. Some cross the Nipigon River, but they don't connect to Highway 11. They just end. There is an unused bush road north of Lake Nipigon that connects Armstrong to highway 11, but it hasn't been maintained for years and is likely impassable.