New Downtown Calgary Arena

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by PPAR

You kinda know what you are talking about, but not really. The arena is in Kanata, a suburb of Ottawa. Not central by any means but hardly the middle of nowhere. Development has happened around the arena, but just the standard suburban type growth. The “single road” you speak of would be the Queensway, basically the Ottawa equivalent of the Deerfoot.
The setting would be analogous to the Flames building an arena in Seton.

If an arena existed on the far side of Seton, or in Balzac, it would be quite fair to say it was in the middle of nowhere.

[DoubleK]

Not sure if this was posted before, but here it is anyways.

The City of Phoenix put together this excellent backgrounder about Talking Stick Arena.

It would be nice to see city hall do the same for the Saddledome.

[YYCguys]

As is being reported in local media, the Victoria Park plan was presented yesterday to CPC. One giant piece of infrastructure was missing: The Saddledome. No apparent replacement building was included in the plan, and in the place of where the Dome currently sits, is “flat flex space”, whatever that means (aka surface parking lot?). Instead of demolishing the Dome just to create another parking lot, there should be an underground parkade with park or other useful space on top (a la SAIT underground parkade and overground park/field).

[suburbia]

Transferred to construction thread ...

[Northern]

I would say the Ottawa arena is more analogous to being on the far side of Airdrie. It's way the fuck out in the middle of nowhere. Whoever thinks it's a good idea to build an arena out of the core hasn't thought things through or is very uninformed and needs to visit the arena in Ottawa.

Originally Posted by PPAR

You kinda know what you are talking about, but not really. The arena is in Kanata, a suburb of Ottawa. Not central by any means but hardly the middle of nowhere. Development has happened around the arena, but just the standard suburban type growth. The “single road” you speak of would be the Queensway, basically the Ottawa equivalent of the Deerfoot.
The setting would be analogous to the Flames building an arena in Seton.

Originally Posted by milomilo

If an arena existed on the far side of Seton, or in Balzac, it would be quite fair to say it was in the middle of nowhere.

[suburbia]

This Obama event is a great example of how the Flames owners really make their money. They get the Saddledome basically rent free and without paying taxes by saying that the Flames do a broad public good, and then use the amazing free facility to do other things. Obama's single event will bring in an estimated $4M just in ticket sales and is basically already sold out. They pay nothing for rent, and take in massive additional high-margin revenue from all food sales. They'll likely also have him on the side for high-paying sponsors, so will likely bring in another $500K+ from that. Then they'll come crying to all of us to build them a new arena for free and for the public to pay their municipal taxes.

[MalcolmTucker]

From the 'Domes point of view, this is no different than booking an event like WE Day or the Harlem Globetrotters. It is easy to compress in your mind the multiple layers of companies that go into something like this, but it isn't the Flames that are extracting the economic rent on this one.


TINEPUBLIC is the booker for this one. Andy McCreath & Christian Darbyshire. Obama is the attraction here, and can absorb almost all of the surplus, much like how a big arena concert, the artist will absorb the money. Will probably take in at least a million from this one. The big costs will be AV, event day staff, transportation (standard to hire a private jet for big speakers). The booker/promoter will be lucky to pocket $250k for their efforts.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

From the 'Domes point of view, this is no different than booking an event like WE Day or the Harlem Globetrotters. It is easy to compress in your mind the multiple layers of companies that go into something like this, but it isn't the Flames that are extracting the economic rent on this one.

TINEPUBLIC is the booker for this one. Andy McCreath & Christian Darbyshire. Obama is the attraction here, and can absorb almost all of the surplus, much like how a big arena concert, the artist will absorb the money. Will probably take in at least a million from this one. The big costs will be AV, event day staff, transportation (standard to hire a private jet for big speakers). The booker/promoter will be lucky to pocket $250k for their efforts.

So wait. The Flames owners can collect rent from others, even though they do not pay rent?

From revenue in the $4M range, I doubt costs will exceed $1M. Add a several hundred thousand for TicketMaster, and the net should easily be $2M-$2.5M (but it depends how much rent the Billionaire owners will collect on the City asset). Smaller events, such as the one for Hillary Clinton at the convention centre have netted $500K - $700K, so this with a massive audience and higher ticket prices will certainly be much higher. Remember that there is sponsor revenue - $50K and you get a couple good seats and a photo with Obama. But I digress.

[MalcolmTucker]

"the net should easily be $2M-$2.5M" With most of that going to Obama/his charity.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

"the net should easily be $2M-$2.5M" With most of that going to Obama/his charity.

When I say net, I'm talking for the people promoting / producing. Obama's fees would be covered in the $2M+ I took out for costs ($4M + sponsorships). It is very well known that Obama's speaking fee is US$400K, or about CDN$550K. There are some rider costs, but you're certainly under CDN$600K for certain even with that. Many of his costs are covered by the US government because he is a former president - so many things normally in a rider are not there.

But you didn't answer my question (and if you don't know, that's okay). Are the Flames owners allowed to charge rent for a City owned facility that they themselves do not pay rent or taxes for (in addition to pocketing all the food and concession margins on)?

[Rollerstud98]

Can you show us the structure you speak of suburbia? Show us that the flames get all these profits?

[Northern]

Originally Posted by suburbia

When I say net, I'm talking for the people promoting / producing. Obama's fees would be covered in the $2M+ I took out for costs ($4M + sponsorships). It is very well known that Obama's speaking fee is US$400K, or about CDN$550K. There are some rider costs, but you're certainly under CDN$600K for certain even with that. Many of his costs are covered by the US government because he is a former president - so many things normally in a rider are not there.

But you didn't answer my question (and if you don't know, that's okay). Are the Flames owners allowed to charge rent for a City owned facility that they themselves do not pay rent or taxes for (in addition to pocketing all the food and concession margins on)?

Are the Flames the ones collecting all the profit? The building is managed by the Saddledome foundation, wouldn't the profit go to them?

From wikipedia

The foundation contracted the Stampede to manage the arena, and through its lease agreements with the Stampede and the Flames, earned 15% of gross concession sales, 50% of net income from luxury suites and executive seating and investment income on the arena's revenues.[35] The Flames signed a 20-year lease in 1983 that earned them 70% of advertising revenues and 90% of ticket revenues. The Stampede earned 85% of concession revenues and all revenue from parking

[MalcolmTucker]

^ The deal as of the 1990s renovation is a head lease. The Flames receive all the revenue (minus a 20% clawback on any arena profit), and pay almost all of the cost (there are certain maintenance things that are shared, up to a couple million a year) . This is instead of the old lease, from above, where the city paid the Saddledome Foundation an annual subsidy which would be worth maybe $15 million a year today.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Suburgatory

Only suburbanites get so worked up about semantics.

Dude. You're clearly confused and in your defensive posture are mixing up even your own position.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Suburgatory

Sounds more like it should be called the BMO Arena then???

[Suburgatory]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Dude. You're clearly confused and in your defensive posture are mixing up even your own position.

You're the one posting mixed quotes that are from a different thread. Confused?

[suburbia]

Excellent article regarding the proposed arena to replace the arena!

In Calgary, the arena sales job is on:
Councillor Davison is rehashing the Flames’ old script
https://www.sprawlcalgary.com/in-cal...ales-job-is-on

[Suburgatory]

If you're not familiar with Josh White's Common Ground YYC podcast, this week is a great listen with Michael Brown CEO of CMLC. Some information about the Event Centre near the end.

https://livewirecalgary.com/2019/01/...form=hootsuite

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Suburgatory

If you're not familiar with Josh White's Common Ground YYC podcast, this week is a great listen with Michael Brown CEO of CMLC. Some information about the Event Centre near the end.

https://livewirecalgary.com/2019/01/...form=hootsuite

Is that regarding the BMO Centre, or the arena?

[Corndogger]

'We were going to make mistakes': Council vote hints at fault lines on arena negotiations

Meghan Potkins, Calgary Herald
Updated: March 1, 2019

With council poised to vote Monday on the city’s terms to replace the Saddledome, there are hints elected officials remain staunchly divided on a potential deal with the owners of the Calgary Flames.

City councilors are expected to re-convene behind closed doors to discuss a new arena proposal after the matter was postponed last Tuesday following a marathon closed-session debate.

The postponement was purportedly sought to clarify questions raised during the debate and to allow time to bring the new interim city manager up to speed on the file.

But several councilors have confirmed that the 7-6 vote to postpone reflected discomfort with the proposed terms and fears the deal was moving too quickly without sufficient scrutiny.

Others on council say they’re frustrated with city hall’s inability to move ahead after months and months of discussions.

The six councillors who voted against the postponement included councilors Jeff Davison, Jyoti Gondek, Ray Jones, Joe Magliocca, Ward Sutherland and Sean Chu — the majority of whom are on the record as supporting the most recent proposal.

Coun. Evan Woolley, who voted to postpone, said he understands the frustration of his colleagues.

“At the same time, we need to have rigor to this process,” Woolley said. “Based on the conversations that came out of council meeting this week, I am deeply concerned that we are giving up rigor in favor of speed.

“I am very uncomfortable and was very uncomfortable that we were going to make mistakes and we are talking about taxpayers’ money here, and significant amounts of money.”

Full article: https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...a-negotiations