Tempe Development Thread

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

Thanks Airomero, you proved my point...

What point is proven? Airomero was being tongue-in-cheek since I was clearly in a rush and mixed up The Vig and Postino; doesn't change the fact that Tempe and ASU, in concert, are working to bring upscale retail to College Avenue.

Why do you do this? I don't need to be bullied on an internet message board; it's really lame and takes all the fun out of what should be a simple hobby.

[Jjs5056]

Replying to this in greater detail as I already gave you the details regarding Farmer and the maximum height for downtown.

Originally Posted by Spitfiredude

Sites that we can still see 100'+ developments in downtown Tempe (excluding lake):

Southwest corner of Mill Ave/Rio Salado (Monti's site) original plans had 2 300' towers. This site is far from development considering the stall of HFL 3. Although, this would have huge potential for a condo site considering that market revives itself in the next half decade. I like the original concept, it reminds me of the Veer Towers in Vegas (except blue), and those condos look awesome.

Agreed that this site is far from development, but I do think the designs would need quite a bit of tweaking if these were to ever be viable in a post-boom Tempe. I see no reason to compromise the Monti's house at all, and so two separate towers, one to the south and one to the east, would be appropriate. I think the heights would also need to scale down to allow view corridors into downtown.

It'd almost be a blessing in disguise if the developers need to make a move in order to stay afloat on the property: 12 story office tower along Mill and a 14-story condo along Rio (also agree that this is a prime tower to test out the condo waters).

Northeast corner of Mill/3rd St. (Mill redevelop site) I see a lot of potential in this site, but I think if Monti's were developed it would be nice to see 4 story town-home residences and offices. Or a boutique hotel redeveloped with the Mill would be VERY cool.

Southeast corner of Mill/3rd St. I think this site is more practical for the town-home idea, or a work/live concept. Probably not a real desirable site.

Looks like we're mixing up 3 different plots:

1) The Hayden Ferry Flour Mill Site:
I think this site needs very little to make it a success; anything more would be fabulous, but can be saved for future phases. At the minimum, I want to see the previous plans developed: retail annex facing Mill, with a raised plaza adjacent to a large glass artifact display piece by the silos.

Phase 2? Redevelopment one of the structure into lofts, or a small, 8-story loft building fronting Rio.

2) Mill/3rd: I actually think the NEC and SEC of this intersection are a fantastic place for some much needed human-scale infill. Unfortunately, I don't know if it is feasible given the land rights (assuming the Palms owns the lots), but simple retail + 4 story rentals on either side would help continue to the historic frontage of Mill, while bringing retail and residents northward to try and connect Uni and the Lake.

Northeast corner of Ash Avenue/5th St I think this site isn't very desirable as of now too. I hope we see some real height on this lot. I think its going to end up being two office buildings like US Airways or Gateway in design.

Why do you feel certain sites are undesirable? I think any open space downtown is desirable, but this piece even moreso given the fact that it is a large plot of land zoned for the highest degree of density.

SkyTower was planned on the south side of the lot, and I still think residential makes the most sense given the surrounding uses. I do wish Hayden Square would fill in its basement with retail, but oh well. a 7-story podium with 2 towers stepping back toward the west (11 and 7) would be ideal once the condo market is back.

To the north, yes - a generic office building is likely and given the glut of prime office space being proposed or in line ahead of this lot, I am sure it'll sit for quite a bit. A shame the city built that horrid garage, because a Gateway building with that amount of retail on the light rail line would've been great, but the north side is completely empty.

Southeast corner of Mill/7th St This lot has lots of potential. I think it is one we will see development plans with soon. Its going to be in prime location with USA Place opening soon nearby. I can see this as a multi use site.

This has been an important part of the Mill fabric missing since 2005ish; I made my wish in another thread recently, but I would like to see a boutique hotel fronting Mill, with a residential tower (15 or so stories) following behind; level 1 would be retail, while level 2 would be an LA Fitness, and other residential amenities.

University Square, I don't think we will see this site developed for a long time, especially with the development of USA Place.

Agreed. Uni Square will need to take a look and see what else is can bring to the Tempe market. IMO, it would be best to divide the land into 4 parcels, and work with ASU in developing at least the University frontage. As mentioned elsewhere, I would like to see them partner with the design school, and build a structure housing retail (art supplies, art gallery, real estate business) on level 1, offices on level 2 (additional architecture/design/planning firms), classroom/open lab space on level 3, and affordable housing for art students on levels 4-10. If demand called for it, a 12-story dorm for freshman could be built next door, or else a small park with public art would be a nice temporary space.

[Jjs5056]

I think Tempe needs to also reevaluate its mass transit plans again, given the newest developments with Marina Heights and USA Place coming on board. Perhaps these don't change anything, in which case, I hope that streetcar line is moving forward quickly and will be up and running by the time these developments are open.

University, Mill, Apache, Rural, and College are all bottle-necked given current traffic patterns, and having those two massive development outside the reach of the LRT won't help ease that burden at all.

Hopefully, if nothing else, we'll get the Rio alignment, so we can at least provide USA Place, HFL, and Marina Heights workers with the option of connecting to LRT. I still think the Apache stretch should have terminated at Gammage, allowing the Rio leg to reach Rural and the residents of the Northshore.

[Arquitect]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

I think Tempe needs to also reevaluate its mass transit plans again, given the newest developments with Marina Heights and USA Place coming on board. Perhaps these don't change anything, in which case, I hope that streetcar line is moving forward quickly and will be up and running by the time these developments are open.

University, Mill, Apache, Rural, and College are all bottle-necked given current traffic patterns, and having those two massive development outside the reach of the LRT won't help ease that burden at all.

Hopefully, if nothing else, we'll get the Rio alignment, so we can at least provide USA Place, HFL, and Marina Heights workers with the option of connecting to LRT. I still think the Apache stretch should have terminated at Gammage, allowing the Rio leg to reach Rural and the residents of the Northshore.

Don't hold your breath. The project is still in the planning and design phase. Construction will not start for a while, and when it does, it will take about a year to complete, since there will be some utilities that will have to be moved. After that you are looking at a few months of testing, In other words, both projects will be complete before the street car gets going.

The one good thing is that if people think it is a pain to commute, they might start moving to Tempe and heighten the demand for housing in the area.

[Jjs5056]

That's kind of been my shtick: build more residential in the central city, and Tempe will continue on its own way toward becoming a world-class destination.

However, while I'll still stick to my guns - in the wake of the "debbie downer" insults flung my way - in saying that it's condos and market rate rentals we need in the core to keep Tempe's ecosystem alive and running, the simple fact is that very few residents have easy access to LRT in Tempe, particularly those who aren't students. W6 (mainly students) and Hanover are the only real developments underway that are close to the transit. So, those living in the "core" (HFL condos, USA Place apartments) may find themselves still needing to commute.

Combine these urban commuters with the typical suburban commuter, sprinkle in your 40,000+ student population base, and a mass transit system tucked away on the furthest side of downtown, and I think things might get a little crazy.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by Arquitect

The one good thing is that if people think it is a pain to commute, they might start moving to Tempe and heighten the demand for housing in the area.

Not sure about that. I worked in downtown Tempe for quite a few years. I considered moving to HFL until I realized the following...

1. Getting groceries would be quite a pain (is there decent shopping around - i.e. AJs/Fry's Signature?)
2. Where would my kids go to elementary school? Would I have to drive them there?
3. Most of my neighbors would be college students looking to party until 3am weeknights.
4. Rent anywhere decent for a family is crazy for the valley ($1800/mth + for very little in return)
5. Mill is still not a family friendly place to raise a family, with the crime, college students and homeless roaming. (someone was shot outside my office a few years ago and left to bleed out)
6. With all the 'events' between ASU, the art festival, etc - Mill/Rio are closed so often and parking is quite a pain.

I'd much rather deal with a nasty commute, and have a nice quiet place to go back home.

I mention this because, State Farm is likely to attract people who are older and have families. They aren't going to be attracted to living in downtown Tempe until a LOT of things change. As it stands right now - I feel that any hope for massive condos, etc for the area is a pipe dream until Tempe addresses some very core issues. It to me does not seem like they are really planning for any decent level of residential in and around Mill - or we would be hearing about supporting projects that would need to be there.

I wanted to think that downtown Tempe living would work - maybe right when I got out of ASU it would have. But almost 20 years later - slightly above zero appeal.

Just my $0.02

[ASUSunDevil]

Originally Posted by xymox

Not sure about that. I worked in downtown Tempe for quite a few years. I considered moving to HFL until I realized the following...

1. Getting groceries would be quite a pain (is there decent shopping around - i.e. AJs/Fry's Signature?)
2. Where would my kids go to elementary school? Would I have to drive them there?
3. Most of my neighbors would be college students looking to party until 3am weeknights.
4. Rent anywhere decent for a family is crazy for the valley ($1800/mth + for very little in return)
5. Mill is still not a family friendly place to raise a family, with the crime, college students and homeless roaming. (someone was shot outside my office a few years ago and left to bleed out)
6. With all the 'events' between ASU, the art festival, etc - Mill/Rio are closed so often and parking is quite a pain.

I'd much rather deal with a nasty commute, and have a nice quiet place to go back home.

I mention this because, State Farm is likely to attract people who are older and have families. They aren't going to be attracted to living in downtown Tempe until a LOT of things change. As it stands right now - I feel that any hope for massive condos, etc for the area is a pipe dream until Tempe addresses some very core issues. It to me does not seem like they are really planning for any decent level of residential in and around Mill - or we would be hearing about supporting projects that would need to be there.

I wanted to think that downtown Tempe living would work - maybe right when I got out of ASU it would have. But almost 20 years later - slightly above zero appeal.

Just my $0.02

I'm unsure of your point as you are far from the demographic that would want to live in Downtown Tempe. The high end residential of Downtown Tempe is geared toward wealthy college kids, young professionals and other adults looking for an urban lifestyle. No developer builds anything Downtown with your demographic in mind.

Safeway is not too far, and the grocery dilemma will be solved by Whole Foods and/or USA Place's grocer.

The crime is really not that bad, and yes, college kids party

[Arquitect]

Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil

I'm unsure of your point as you are far from the demographic that would want to live in Downtown Tempe. The high end residential of Downtown Tempe is geared toward wealthy college kids, young professionals and other adults looking for an urban lifestyle. No developer builds anything Downtown with your demographic in mind.

Safeway is not too far, and the grocery dilemma will be solved by Whole Foods and/or USA Place's grocer.

The crime is really not that bad, and yes, college kids party

There was some validity to the point, since these big projects would probably encompass a much greater demographic than what is in Tempe. Although I would never really expect the young family demographic to move into an apartment in downtown Tempe, I could see them moving to somewhere in south Tempe. I still think that these two really big projects will increase the need for housing though. Tempe will always be a college town, but with projects like these, it is definitely a move to expanding beyond that base and creating a little more diverse urban core. We might not get young families right away, but it will definitely attract people beyond the student and young professional demographic.

[ASUSunDevil]

Originally Posted by Arquitect

We might not get young families right away, but it will definitely attract people beyond the student and young professional demographic.

The neighborhood just south of Apache on College is perfectly suitable for a young family and is within a mile of Downtown. It sounded like he was explaining all of the downfalls of living in the heart of Downtown Tempe with a family, which basically no one does.

Encore has proven that there is a market outside of students and young professionals that want to live Downtown.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by Arquitect

There was some validity to the point, since these big projects would probably encompass a much greater demographic than what is in Tempe. Although I would never really expect the young family demographic to move into an apartment in downtown Tempe, I could see them moving to somewhere in south Tempe. I still think that these two really big projects will increase the need for housing though. Tempe will always be a college town, but with projects like these, it is definitely a move to expanding beyond that base and creating a little more diverse urban core. We might not get young families right away, but it will definitely attract people beyond the student and young professional demographic.

More or less my point. Tempe can only hold so many college students and young professionals. To get to the type of density you want, Tempe needs to have a broader appeal than to people who just want to be close to work and the bars. Other cities manage this.

State Farm expects 7000 employees on that campus - that's a LOT of people. American Express has about 4300 or so - and a lot of the people who work there have young families. Plus they live in the areas close to the campus. Downtown Tempe doesn't really provide that type of housing for those type of people - so until they do, it will be a cluster fuck of a traffic problem. (Scottsdale Rd south from 202 in the morning right now is a cluster - 2 years from now?) They likely would have been better served building a 50+ story building in downtown PHX, IMHO.

[ASUSunDevil]

The lake is going to look incredible when its done, but I see your point.

State Farm building a 500 footer on the lot east of CityScape would have been just fine with me.

[Jjs5056]

Xynox - I definitely understand your point; however, downtown Phoenix is even LESS equipped to house the working force coming to Tempe via State Farm and USA Place. Right now, downtown Phoenix is a mixed of student housing and modern infill within the sketchier parts of downtown (just beyond the 7's); a young professional would need to choose between the limited inventory of 44 Monroe and Summit or try and find a roomate looking for another in one if the houses in Roosevelt. Those with a family would need to travel to midtown for a historic home, or uptown for a more affordable alternative. Additionally, I think you're being slightly prudish regarding Tempe's issues: all downtowns have some tough spots, homeless, etc. Youre missing out on what makes Tempe great: the lake itself, the great parks system, central access to cultural amenities like Beach Park, TCA, Papago Park, Zoo, DBG, all of downtown Phoenix, and both rail and freeway access nearby.

However, in general, I have been thinking that Tempe really is ill-prepared for the influx in workforce population coming. These aren't folks that will be walking next door to their dorm at night. That's why I asked about the streetcar- which could at least reduce congestion within downtown and connect these folks to uptown Phoenix and Mesa, where there is affordable housing for families.

Tempe is the urban heart of our metro and that means that many different demographics will call it home, go to school there, or work within its limits. This makes for a dynamic neighborhood, but causes a lot of challenges that will need to be addressed.

I got my head bitten off when I suggested that Tempe needed to shelve future student-focused projects and concentrate those on higher-end, yet affordable, housing aimed at young professionals to house this growing workforce. This will cut down on traffic, while building civic pride within these workers so that when they begin their families, they'll be Temle enthusiasts who can hopefully use streetcar and/or buss to explore Tempe's single family neighborhoods, which are actually rather unique, safe, and affordable.

ASUSunDevil - Tempe is a college town at heart, but it's now attracted two more HQs and needs to start providing the right instracture to handle the needs of the class working in these facilities. Ash/Uni, Hanover, and Lofts at Hayden Ferry will help, but more is needed in order to make downtown a place for both an 18-year old ASU freshman and a 40-year old State Farm worker. That means even more housing, more transit, increased police force, and accessible services like grocers, pharmacies, healthcare, and more.

State Farm - I think it would've been well-advised for Tempe to have required that SF construct a residential building at Marina Heights, because the thought of the 202 ramps at 5:30 makes me cringe. It could've been open to anyone, but there's no doubt that these workers would've flocked to a residential tower right on their campus in what will be a new town for most of them. Sure, the private sector should catch up, but I think this is a case where the public sector should've intervened. They'd never open a school for that many students without having the proper housing nearby.

[Spitfiredude]

Honestly I don't see several of these newer projects being attractive to students. I think this is a result of the crop of student focus housing that has and is springing up on the eastern end of campus. Hanover is definitely geared more toward younger professionals. Likewise, this new Lakeside Apartments is geared to the 21+ crowd. Both aren't as attractive to students as other places are.

Living at West 6th is not bad. If you have not lived here, you cannot judge. I graduated ASU a couple years ago and have been here at W6 for 1 1/2 years. According to the concierge security guard down stairs tower 1 is where they try to throw more of the students. Tower one's population consists 80% people age 22 and under. In comparison, tower 2 (the taller one) consists of only 65% people age 22 and under. I didn't ask for information about the town homes. The people above me are college students, and RARELY party week nights (they're frat boys too). If they do, they end up going out to Mill, so it ends by 11. This may happen once a month. The people below me are a young couple. Even when people blast their music, or have 15+ people over it is fairly quiet. The only thing that travels through concrete is bass. The walls here are triple insulated, and the windows are a good barrier of sound. I'm more worried about the music on Mill than elsewhere. The maintenance here has been very good and I love where I live. I've never had to call security. Living so close to ASU, and being one of the lone towers in downtown Tempe, of course there will be the college crowd. Its not a problem though.

Crime here is the result of night life on Mill. Scottsdale has high crime in their Old Town district. This statistical information is MISLEADING though. The crime targeted is crime from a drunk person to another drunk person. Its not like you randomly walk down Mill and someone is trying to assault you or shoot a gun at you. I've seen 2 shootings since living at W6, both were at 1 AM. One Saturday, one Thursday. This district is HEAVILY policed and guarded so in both situations suspects were caught. These aren't people that live here though. These are people coming from all parts of the Valley to enjoy nightlife on Mill, then some jacka** ruins it. I am just saying, crime is out the door. Its not like living in Laveen or anything and you cannot compare it to that, because residents that live here make $50k+.

I do think downtown Tempe needs a variety of housing, but its in the process of that. Even as it is like people mentioned, you have Encore. No one mentioned the Condos at HFL. Those are filled with non college students. Orchidhouse is also filled with non college students. If you think downtown Tempe caters only to college students and young professions you are wrong. You will see a greater variety of development now and in the future here and along the lake.

[azsunsurfer]

"State Farm - I think it would've been well-advised for Tempe to have required that SF construct a residential building at Marina Heights, because the thought of the 202 ramps at 5:30 makes me cringe. It could've been open to anyone, but there's no doubt that these workers would've flocked to a residential tower right on their campus in what will be a new town for most of them. Sure, the private sector should catch up, but I think this is a case where the public sector should've intervened. They'd never open a school for that many students without having the proper housing nearby."

That would've been a horrible idea...possibly compromising the project in its entirety. State Farm nor Ryan Companies nor Sunbelt Holdings are in the residential development game...There is a market rate/ non student driven residential development breaking ground in June that is directly west of the development. I think that's good enough....Let us not forget Pier 202 is a short distance away and is poised to contain residential development.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by Spitfiredude

Honestly I don't see several of these newer projects being attractive to students. I think this is a result of the crop of student focus housing that has and is springing up on the eastern end of campus. Hanover is definitely geared more toward younger professionals. Likewise, this new Lakeside Apartments is geared to the 21+ crowd. Both aren't as attractive to students as other places are.

Living at West 6th is not bad. If you have not lived here, you cannot judge. I graduated ASU a couple years ago and have been here at W6 for 1 1/2 years. According to the concierge security guard down stairs tower 1 is where they try to throw more of the students. Tower one's population consists 80% people age 22 and under. In comparison, tower 2 (the taller one) consists of only 65% people age 22 and under. I didn't ask for information about the town homes. The people above me are college students, and RARELY party week nights (they're frat boys too). If they do, they end up going out to Mill, so it ends by 11. This may happen once a month. The people below me are a young couple. Even when people blast their music, or have 15+ people over it is fairly quiet. The only thing that travels through concrete is bass. The walls here are triple insulated, and the windows are a good barrier of sound. I'm more worried about the music on Mill than elsewhere. The maintenance here has been very good and I love where I live. I've never had to call security. Living so close to ASU, and being one of the lone towers in downtown Tempe, of course there will be the college crowd. Its not a problem though.

Crime here is the result of night life on Mill. Scottsdale has high crime in their Old Town district. This statistical information is MISLEADING though. The crime targeted is crime from a drunk person to another drunk person. Its not like you randomly walk down Mill and someone is trying to assault you or shoot a gun at you. I've seen 2 shootings since living at W6, both were at 1 AM. One Saturday, one Thursday. This district is HEAVILY policed and guarded so in both situations suspects were caught. These aren't people that live here though. These are people coming from all parts of the Valley to enjoy nightlife on Mill, then some jacka** ruins it. I am just saying, crime is out the door. Its not like living in Laveen or anything and you cannot compare it to that, because residents that live here make $50k+.

I do think downtown Tempe needs a variety of housing, but its in the process of that. Even as it is like people mentioned, you have Encore. No one mentioned the Condos at HFL. Those are filled with non college students. Orchidhouse is also filled with non college students. If you think downtown Tempe caters only to college students and young professions you are wrong. You will see a greater variety of development now and in the future here and along the lake.

Not sure if all your comments were directed at me or not, but:

I agree, Hanover and Lofts at Hayden Ferry are certainly aimed at the younger professional; both are rather small in comparison to, say, University House (especially if a phase II gets built), and lack the visibility and direct access to transit. I didn't mention the condos at Orchidhouse and HFL because those are owner-occupied and I'm not sure a worker from out of state will be ready for that kind of commitment, plus the amount of investors involved that scoop up units.

You are right in that the student housing trend has moved east after HUB was completed, but that was a pretty prime lot that could've been used for a more diverse demographic, and there are some projects that have been proposed along the rail on Apache that I think should be saved for market rate rentals (still allowing students the option of renting, but none of the CA/roomate assistance/etc.), because we need to start looking at Tempe based on its transit lines and nodes of amenities/attractions as downtown proper starts reaching build out.

For starters, both projects (USA Place and State Farm) are inaccessible to the light rail, meaning all of those workers will need to commute to and from work, no matter how close or far home is. That's especially true if the streetcar isn't ready, which seems likely per Arq, though hopefully most USA Place workers will live within the development. Unfortunately, for the SF workers we lose to the suburbs when they first arrives, they are highly likely to stay living that lifestyle indefinitely. That's why it's important to provide more than just a 6-story building on Mill. All the more reason a tower on Rural/Rio would've been a great investment by the city.

College Ave is also becoming an activity hub, with plans to add more retail in the future, yet housing is limited to students. This area definitely needs some market rate rentals, which I'm hoping could be built west of Block 12. Lastly, the developments along Town Lake, while good for the city in terms of sales taxes, etc. are actually not that great from an urban POV, as all of them will be inaccessible to transit. Ideally the streetcar will run to McClintock one day, but that's way into the future, and for now, the more development, the more cars on the road as that's the only option.

Thanks for the W6 demos - I hadn't thought so many were 22+ and think they should advertise that figure as these projects near completion. I also agree about the crime statistics and what not... what isn't misrepresented is just a fact of life in a major metro.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

"State Farm - I think it would've been well-advised for Tempe to have required that SF construct a residential building at Marina Heights, because the thought of the 202 ramps at 5:30 makes me cringe. It could've been open to anyone, but there's no doubt that these workers would've flocked to a residential tower right on their campus in what will be a new town for most of them. Sure, the private sector should catch up, but I think this is a case where the public sector should've intervened. They'd never open a school for that many students without having the proper housing nearby."

That would've been a horrible idea...possibly compromising the project in its entirety. State Farm nor Ryan Companies nor Sunbelt Holdings are in the residential development game...There is a market rate/ non student driven residential development breaking ground in June that is directly west of the development. I think that's good enough....Let us not forget Pier 202 is a short distance away and is poised to contain residential development.

Why would it have been a horrible idea? A mass amount of workers are coming to a business development along the lake, many from out of state, and will be in need of housing. A lakefront residential tower endorsed by the company would be a win for both the city and State Farm, as it keeps the workers in town to live/work/play, reduces auto congestion, etc.

The development to the west is a luxury development; I'm not sure of the salaries of the SF divisions coming to the shore, but it could be priced out of their range. Additionally, it's quite small and could fill up quickly.

Instead of calling it horrible, why not help me understand why and discuss other options? I don't pretend to know how the logistics would have had to work - AFAIK, Sunbelt played a part in the HFL development, but I guess I am wrong. In that case, could the city have negotiated a purchase or lease of a portion of land for residential development? Does Sunbelt own the land between Packard and Rural? If not, couldn't the city issue an RFP (even if you disagree for the need)?

This would serve other residents, as well, and help keep the south shore accessible to the public, as opposed to a walled-off campus, which fits the goals of the city.

As for Pier 202, they've submitted 3 plans for review - all different - within the last 5 years, and have yet to break ground. I'm sure it will happen eventually, but it's certainly a long time away.

[Spitfiredude]

@JJs5056 my comments were mostly directed at Xymox, but I do enjoy the discussion

I thought State Farm had already announced that most of the workers in this new facility already work here in the Valley and very minimal are relocating?

Yes I'm excited for Tempe, but I'm not gonna lie a 500-800 footer in downtown Phoenix would have been great.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by Spitfiredude

@JJs5056 my comments were mostly directed at Xymox, but I do enjoy the discussion

I thought State Farm had already announced that most of the workers in this new facility already work here in the Valley and very minimal are relocating?

Honestly, I haven't paid much attention - by "regional HQ," I assumed at least 2/3 would be coming from other parts of the southwest.

If that is indeed in true, then a residential component probably wasn't necessary - though, it's still a shame how much of the lake's frontage has been commercialized and rendered inaccessible to the public. But, I digress.

I really wish I could throw some ideas over to the Tempe CVB. I'd make sure materials were given out on the first week outlining the new residential projects nearby aimed at their demo, work with Hanover and the Lofts at Hayden Ferry to send reps in to talk about their buildings and amenities, and do some direct mail to their mailboxes (or intranet marketing if allowed by SF) showing how much their commute would be reduced if living in Mesa, then Scottsdale, then Chandler. I'd also work with SF to see if they could institute any incentives for staying in Tempe; SF has "smart driving" bonuses, why not give "smart living" bonuses due to the sustainable practice of living in close proximity to work? Subsidizing or giving out rail passes for free would also be an easy way for the company to contribute.

And, in the meantime, Tempe can get its streetcar issues straightened out so that in 5 or so years, raising a family in the city and working at SF can be done in a smart, sustainable fashion.

[TempeSilverFox]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Honestly, I haven't paid much attention - by "regional HQ," I assumed at least 2/3 would be coming from other parts of the southwest.

If that is indeed in true, then a residential component probably wasn't necessary - though, it's still a shame how much of the lake's frontage has been commercialized and rendered inaccessible to the public. But, I digress.

Jjs5056, I think you'll be pleased to know that the State Farm complex actually doesn't really change the public access to Tempe Town Lake at all. The lake front park and multi-use paths are still there and always will be. In fact, the State Farm project really does more to promote accessibility and activity at the lake front than the ocean of a parking lot that was previously there. From everything we have heard, the State Farm complex is supposed to include coffee shops and some sort of restaurants (I think...?) If that's true, then folks now have additional destinations to walk towards along the lake shore. I think it will work out quite nicely. But to your point, I think all of us would like to see increased residential- aimed towards as many demographics as possible- in the downtown core Mill Avenue District. The greater the variety of residents, the more self-sustaining the area will become, and ideally, we should see a greater variety of businesses that will hopefully follow them.

[Tito714]

We already get free light rail/bus passes from work, I work for State Farm down on Priest and Washington.