CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion

[jpIllInoIs]

Whenever the issue of extending the Yellow Line or Blue comes up, we get the same arguements saying the CTA should serve Chicago and not the suburbs. The reality is that extending the blue and yellow lines would offer Chicago's inner city working class, blue collar if you prefer, transit options to their jobs. Like it or not, the suburbs are the source of more middle income jobs right now. Especially manufacturing, warehousing, distribution and assembly. The type of jobs that have long ago left the city because the companies require HUGE floor plates. A distribution facility can easily top 400,000 square feet on one floor. I know of a worker who travels from Chicago's south side to Elk Grove Village for a manufacturing job. He takes a bus to the red line-transfers to the blue line exits at River Road and then takes a 25 minute circuitous bus ride to EGV. His trip takes almost 2 hours each way. Whats more many of the workers from Humbolt Park and Cragin Belmont would use the blue line extension. The Red line extension actually would provide an overlap of Loop bound service that already is provided by 2 Metra routes.

[honte]

^ But that just makes so much sense. .... Many of the people on this board seem to be "transit elitists," thinking that the trains serving underprivledged, less dense, often poorer areas are a waste due to fewer riders per station; they should be eliminated altogether so that more money is available to make sure the Brown Line gets to the station exactly on time. Remember?

[k1052]

Given the sheer number of people that utilize the 95th/Dan Ryan station (more than any station south of the river) and all the bus routes feeding it I wouldn't classify an extension as redundant, rather complementary to METRA service. It is also a project that has been promised for a long time and has the full support of the community.

Unless significant money can be extracted from the Feds to extend the Blue Line past the airport I wouldn't support it at this time. Obviously when/if the Blue Line is extended to the West terminal provisions should be made for further extension off airport property at a later date. The Airport Express service via the Blue Line is a project that I am skeptical will ever get off the ground. New METRA service can probably serve that function more cost effectively via a direct link at the West Terminal than the options I've seen from the CTA.

Say whatever you want about the Brown line and it's ridership, it is impossible to debate that the stations were badly deteriorated (and probably unsafe) form over 100 years of non-stop use. Hopefully the Howard and Linden branches will be next up for rehabbing since their bridges and trackage are in such poor condition.

[honte]

^ Don't get me wrong - I support the Brown Line reconstruction obviously, and I wouldn't put the Blue Line extension near the top of my priority list. I just get annoyed when this thread starts getting too interested in "system efficiency" and forgets the people it is supposed to serve. The "Let's tear down the Green Line because no one lives over there anyway" argument is frustrating.

[Marcu]

Originally Posted by Mr Man

Not bailout... More like picking up the pieces after a blow-up.

It would essentially amount to a bailout. Bensenville would be bankrupt for a reason: too much to pay for with not enough money. Chicago can't take in the property tax revenue without paying off the obligations, including funding the schools, infrastructure, etc.

As far as the blue line extension, as someone already pointed out one of the predominant reasons people leave the city is to be closer to work. Since most jobs are now in the suburbs, people follow the jobs. It's not very practical to take the Kennedy or the Metra (accounting for a transfer in the loop) from a neighnorhood like Logan Square. An extension of the blue line to Schaumburg and of the yellow line to Old Orchard would give people the option of living in the city while working in the suburbs. Metra is designed to bring people from the burbs to the loop. It's not very good at taking people from Chicago neighborhoods to jobs in the burbs.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by honte

^ Don't get me wrong - I support the Brown Line reconstruction obviously, and I wouldn't put the Blue Line extension near the top of my priority list. I just get annoyed when this thread starts getting too interested in "system efficiency" and forgets the people it is supposed to serve. The "Let's tear down the Green Line because no one lives over there anyway" argument is frustrating.

A heavy rail/metro type system is not the most efficient way to move people over long distances. Construction and maintenance costs are astronomical compared to other transit systems. Even running the Blue Line to O'Hare in the first place was pushing the limit, but Jane Byrne and the transit planners at the time really wanted rail service to the airport.

I'm all for providing better service to Elk Grove Village and Schaumburg, but I think we should be looking more at a Metra service where trains can run express, on existing tracks that have to be maintained anyway. Even if passing sidings and new signal systems have to built, it's still far cheaper than extending the Blue Line.

If you combine this with a downtown fare-integration program between CTA and Metra, you've just greatly shortened the commute for jpIllinois' friend and others like him at a much lower price than a Blue Line extension.

[Rail Claimore]

Some Northwest suburban leaders are concerned because the DuPage route would bypass their municipalities.

Amazing when you consider that many suburban areas around the country try to block transit extensions into their communities.

That being said though, I don't think it's financially feasible. You'll probably see an extension to the western terminal, and that's it.

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by jpIllInoIs

Whenever the issue of extending the Yellow Line or Blue comes up, we get the same arguements saying the CTA should serve Chicago and not the suburbs. The reality is that extending the blue and yellow lines would offer Chicago's inner city working class, blue collar if you prefer, transit options to their jobs. Like it or not, the suburbs are the source of more middle income jobs right now. Especially manufacturing, warehousing, distribution and assembly. The type of jobs that have long ago left the city because the companies require HUGE floor plates. A distribution facility can easily top 400,000 square feet on one floor. I know of a worker who travels from Chicago's south side to Elk Grove Village for a manufacturing job. He takes a bus to the red line-transfers to the blue line exits at River Road and then takes a 25 minute circuitous bus ride to EGV. His trip takes almost 2 hours each way. Whats more many of the workers from Humbolt Park and Cragin Belmont would use the blue line extension. The Red line extension actually would provide an overlap of Loop bound service that already is provided by 2 Metra routes.

I see what you're saying, but it's important to not try to be all things to all people. He has a choice in where he lives and where he works; if he has a decent job, he can afford a car. This sounds heartless, but heavy rail is really only justified where there is trip density for at least some presentable cost recovery. By all means, if thousands of people are commuting between the south side and EGV every day, then come up with the fastest way to make that trip. But these are very big dollar amounts we're talking about, in extremely limited quantities. Just saying.

[nomarandlee]

Nothing to new other then there is increased urgency to get the ATS expansion done.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/6...ople27.article

O'Hare's People Mover may get more cars, track
AIRPORT | Train may be 'severely taxed': City Hall

November 27, 2007
BY FRAN SPIELMAN City Hall Reporter [email protected]

O'Hare Airport's 14-year-old People Mover system is bursting at the seams and needs to be expanded -- with nearly 50 percent more vehicles immediately and an extension of the 2.7-mile transit line over time, City Hall has concluded.

..............."The city intends to address the immediate need for added capacity through an increase in the fleet of vehicles. . . . The fleet needs to be expanded by at least seven vehicles [from 15 to 22 cars] in the near future. ... Added vehicles would allow an increase from two-car to three-car trains and operation of trains at closer to the minimum operational headways" of 90-second intervals between trains.

The city wants to determine the "quickest feasible increase in capacity" and set the stage for a People Mover extension, the document states.

[spyguy]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,4001250.story

Appeals court denies petition to reconsider cemetery relocation

A federal appeals court on Wednesday declined to reconsider its decision that Chicago can relocate a religious cemetery in Bensenville to make way for the expansion of O'Hare International Airport.

The ruling to deny a petition filed by St. John's United Church of Christ for a new hearing leaves airport expansion opponents with one remaining appeal -- to the U.S. Supreme Court. Lawyers for the church were not immediately available after Wednesday's decision by the U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeals.

[Hot Rod]

^ lol; strike two against the suburbs. ... LOL!!!

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

^ lol; strike two against the suburbs. ... LOL!!!

^ In all fairness, the OHare expansion battle isn't Chicago vs. the suburbs. Most of the suburbs are in support of it, it's just a small handful of highly vocal towns next to OHare that are determined to stop this project.

[Dalreg]

Send in the military! Just kidding. It would be a lot simpler and probably quicker in the end if Chicago just walked in and bought out the WHOLE town.

[spyguy]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,5575119.story

Court lets Chicago acquire cemetery

Tribune staff report
December 20, 2007

Chicago plans to obtain title to a cemetery on land needed for a new runway at O'Hare International Airport, after a federal court lifted an injunction on acquiring the property, city officials said Wednesday.

The U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeals on Dec. 14 lifted a more than 2-year-old injunction that prohibited the O'Hare Modernization Program from taking title to St. Johannes Cemetery in Bensenville, pending an expected appeal by the cemetery's owner, St. John's United Church of Christ, to the U.S. Supreme Court.

[2PRUROCKS!]

From Crain's

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-b...27746&seenIt=1

Chicago gets money for new O'Hare tower
(AP) — Chicago has procured federal funding for key parts of its expansion of O'Hare International Airport.

U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin says Chicago will get $42 million to cover the costs of a new air traffic control tower.

[nomarandlee]

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/7...ower15.article
Sky's the limit for O'Hare growth?
O'HARE | Feds insist they'll lift flight caps by November

January 15, 2008

BY FRAN SPIELMAN City Hall Reporter [email protected]

Flight caps that have stifled growth at O'Hare Airport since 2004 will be lifted in time for the Nov. 20 opening of a new north runway, a federal official said Monday.

"The [federal] rule in effect right now says the caps are scheduled to expire on Oct. 31 of this year. Our intent is to have the caps expire Oct. 31," said Barry Cooper, regional administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration's Great Lakes Region...............

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[harryc]

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[Chicago2020]

Are they planning on updating the look of the Hilton at O'Hare???

[honte]

Cool Harry. I really love these three towers - each designed in its own style by a great architect. What a nice way to come into a city.

Originally Posted by Chicago2020

Are they planning on updating the look of the Hilton at O'Hare???

That thing is beautiful as is. Along with the rest of the parts they haven't screwed up.

[Nowhereman1280]

Originally Posted by honte

Cool Harry. I really love these three towers - each designed in its own style by a great architect. What a nice way to come into a city.



That thing is beautiful as is. Along with the rest of the parts they haven't screwed up.

Agreed on both points! I really hope they don't mess up that Hilton...